Is it immoral to have children knowing you can not provide them a decent life?

If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

You are assuming that rich people have more fulfilling lives than poor people. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure doesn't hurt I suppose. Anyways, if you live in the US and you are poor you are miserable, but if you grow up in the middle class of a poor country, though you may not have as much wealth as the poor american, you probably will be less disgruntled than the poor american who actually has more wealth.

Your concern is based upon a relative perception about the value of life base upon wealth. Sounds like the specter of Malthus to me....
 
wh
Because those are the only two choices you can see?
Or you could rob a liquor store I guess.

THAT would be the immorality: acting like a helpless victim in your own life. Why is earning some money to buy food not an option in your worldview, or possibly giving the child to someone who CAN feed him if you're simply unable to muster that much gumption?

What reality do you live in that someone can just give themselves a raise?

why would you have kids knowing that you may be sending them to bed hungry or that you require a raise to cover their costs correctly?

Why wouldn't you put yourself in the position of earning more money and having a stable lifestyle BEFORE having kids?

Really? Really?! You would actually sit around, saying, "I'm pregnant, and I'm going to send him to bed hungry, boo hoo"? REALLY?!

I'm not saying it's not better to keep your fucking legs together until you're prepared to provide for kids properly (although somehow, I doubt that foregoing sex is what you had in mind here, for some reason), but once the kid is on the way (if you're dumb enough NOT to keep your legs together), how do you just sit around and whine about how you can't manage, instead of getting off your dead ass and doing everything humanly possible for him?
 
And what happens when the economy decides you no longer have income?

You make plans before hand and work where ever you can till you make things work.

And when you can't find work, like 8.3% of Americans, what do you do then?

I know exactly what I'd do. I've been paying federal taxes for 20 years now. I'd have no issue with getting some of it back. Of course - the right wing only wants the tax dollars I've paid to come back to me if I strike it rich. If I strike it poor, I shouldn't get any of them back.

You really need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and instead exercise some faith, think outside the box and get to work.

I'm not looking at myself as a victim. Kinda hard to when my salary just more than doubled. You and crazy Cecille have been the only ones suggesting I might be the victim of anything but having to endure you and her stupidity.

Of course now that my salary more than doubled, I'm in a higher tax bracket, so according to the whiny right, I am a victim of oppressive government taxation.

It's amazing how there's work to be done out there if you're willing to think outside the box and actually DO whatever work you can find. All my life, I've heard, "There are no jobs; I can't find anything", while watching my parents always manage to find SOMETHING to scrape by with. Color me unimpressed. Tell me how fucking crazy I am when YOU can do more than just whine about how you need extended unemployment. Neither of my parents ever collected a DAY'S worth of unemployment in their lives.

And FYI, there's still no one here buying that whole "I make SOOO much money, look how successful I am even though I can't read an entire fucking sentence and glean the meaning of it" line. You're still a loser and a joke, no matter what Internet wonders you claim for yourself. If you could impress people with what you are, you wouldn't have to try to impress them every single post with what you say, shitstain.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

Many children born to (relatively) poor parents don't turn to crime and do not waste their life. Some even go on to achieve great things.
On the other hand, some children born to affluent parents do turn to crime and do waste their lives.
Who is more immoral here?
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?


You don't seem to have much regard for or understanding of life.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

It appears you have not considered that 'pregnancies happen' regardless if they are planned or not even when birth control is used.
I am curious if you have children of your own.


Having children born in poverty is certainly not immoral.
Having children born in poverty and you do nothing to help your situation and therefore look to improve your childs life is immoral.
When my wife and I married we didn't have much. We lived in a $12,000 4 room home. I was just beginning to get a career going and only made about $350 a week, my wife at the time barely made $300 a week. We had two children. We're we immoral? No. Because I worked my ass off to get better opportunities and I did. :clap2:
However, if I never set out to improve my family's lot...lived off the government dole and was still broke - I wouldn't be worth the amount of work plants have to do to provide the oxygen I breathe.
:clap2:
I can relate to this.
When I became pregnant with my first, it was a miracle, since I had been informed by several MDs that I was unable to conceive. My spouse and I are both professionals and I continued working part time after our first was born. Imagine our surprise when I discovered on Mother's Day (about 5 months after our eldest was born) that I was once again pregnant!
My spouse 'humped it up' and took on a lucrative part time position to augment our loss of income after our second child was born because there was no way I could have returned to any meaningful employment having to care for two children who were born 13 months apart.

No immorality on our part at all! We managed our finances well, cut back where we could and did whatever it took to provide for our children.

One example off the top of my head: After the laundry was washed, I would dry the clothing on dryer racks in order to keep our electric bill down
 
Which parent is more moral?

A mother who is working part time for low wages who feeds her kids though the SNAP program; or

the successful white collar criminal parent (let's say the guy works as an administrative aid to a Congressman) who makes a very good living and gives his kids every advantage?

Which person, in your opinion is the more repugnant?

Which parent, given a forced choice, would YOU prefer to be?




,
 
wh
Or you could rob a liquor store I guess.



What reality do you live in that someone can just give themselves a raise?

why would you have kids knowing that you may be sending them to bed hungry or that you require a raise to cover their costs correctly?

Why wouldn't you put yourself in the position of earning more money and having a stable lifestyle BEFORE having kids?

Really? Really?! You would actually sit around, saying, "I'm pregnant, and I'm going to send him to bed hungry, boo hoo"? REALLY?!

I'm not saying it's not better to keep your fucking legs together until you're prepared to provide for kids properly (although somehow, I doubt that foregoing sex is what you had in mind here, for some reason), but once the kid is on the way (if you're dumb enough NOT to keep your legs together), how do you just sit around and whine about how you can't manage, instead of getting off your dead ass and doing everything humanly possible for him?

did you reply to the wrong post?
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

It appears you have not considered that 'pregnancies happen' regardless if they are planned or not even when birth control is used.
I am curious if you have children of your own.


Having children born in poverty is certainly not immoral.
Having children born in poverty and you do nothing to help your situation and therefore look to improve your childs life is immoral.
When my wife and I married we didn't have much. We lived in a $12,000 4 room home. I was just beginning to get a career going and only made about $350 a week, my wife at the time barely made $300 a week. We had two children. We're we immoral? No. Because I worked my ass off to get better opportunities and I did. :clap2:
However, if I never set out to improve my family's lot...lived off the government dole and was still broke - I wouldn't be worth the amount of work plants have to do to provide the oxygen I breathe.
:clap2:
I can relate to this.
When I became pregnant with my first, it was a miracle, since I had been informed by several MDs that I was unable to conceive. My spouse and I are both professionals and I continued working part time after our first was born. Imagine our surprise when I discovered on Mother's Day (about 5 months after our eldest was born) that I was once again pregnant!
My spouse 'humped it up' and took on a lucrative part time position to augment our loss of income after our second child was born because there was no way I could have returned to any meaningful employment having to care for two children who were born 13 months apart.

No immorality on our part at all! We managed our finances well, cut back where we could and did whatever it took to provide for our children.

One example off the top of my head: After the laundry was washed, I would dry the clothing on dryer racks in order to keep our electric bill down

Yes, I have kids

and no, based on your story, you are not the type of parents I am referring to, although if you are just scraping by for essentials, you aren't maximizing what you can provide for your kid in terms of education and life experience, but still doing a lot better than many parents
 
I worked full time in a dangerous job up to the day my last child was born, and went back to work 3 days after his birth. My last 2 are a year apart....

Not that I have any problem with moms who stay at home, wish I could....but mothers with closely spaced children can work if they need to.
 
Which parent is more moral?

A mother who is working part time for low wages who feeds her kids though the SNAP program; or

the successful white collar criminal parent (let's say the guy works as an administrative aid to a Congressman) who makes a very good living and gives his kids every advantage?

Which person, in your opinion is the more repugnant?

Which parent, given a forced choice, would YOU prefer to be?
,


You didn't explain the "criminal" part.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

It appears you have not considered that 'pregnancies happen' regardless if they are planned or not even when birth control is used.
I am curious if you have children of your own.


Having children born in poverty is certainly not immoral.
Having children born in poverty and you do nothing to help your situation and therefore look to improve your childs life is immoral.
When my wife and I married we didn't have much. We lived in a $12,000 4 room home. I was just beginning to get a career going and only made about $350 a week, my wife at the time barely made $300 a week. We had two children. We're we immoral? No. Because I worked my ass off to get better opportunities and I did. :clap2:
However, if I never set out to improve my family's lot...lived off the government dole and was still broke - I wouldn't be worth the amount of work plants have to do to provide the oxygen I breathe.
:clap2:
I can relate to this.
When I became pregnant with my first, it was a miracle, since I had been informed by several MDs that I was unable to conceive. My spouse and I are both professionals and I continued working part time after our first was born. Imagine our surprise when I discovered on Mother's Day (about 5 months after our eldest was born) that I was once again pregnant!
My spouse 'humped it up' and took on a lucrative part time position to augment our loss of income after our second child was born because there was no way I could have returned to any meaningful employment having to care for two children who were born 13 months apart.

No immorality on our part at all! We managed our finances well, cut back where we could and did whatever it took to provide for our children.

One example off the top of my head: After the laundry was washed, I would dry the clothing on dryer racks in order to keep our electric bill down

Yes, I have kids

and no, based on your story, you are not the type of parents I am referring to, although if you are just scraping by for essentials, you aren't maximizing what you can provide for your kid in terms of education and life experience, but still doing a lot better than many parents

Since I haven't given out all the details of the situation I don't expect you to understand. No biggy...

One thing I want to clarify is we were not 'scraping by'. We had savings and were funding for our children's future. I did have a part time position as a property manager, able to make my own hours.
I won't detail their early school education but I do expect you to believe it was both crucial and beneficial. Additionally there is much more than a brick building where they can learn. I took them to DC, Richmond, battle fields, where my youngest was disappointed that he found no shell casings. :D

I also learned and taught my childen how to live and thrive with the basics of life.
Did they go without cable? You betcha'! Did they miss it? Hell no! And lest we not forget the Peanut Festival in Suffolk! :D
Many, many free things to partake in to enhance their minds.
 
I worked full time in a dangerous job up to the day my last child was born, and went back to work 3 days after his birth. My last 2 are a year apart....

Not that I have any problem with moms who stay at home, wish I could....but mothers with closely spaced children can work if they need to.

Agreed. I, for one, cannot just sit still. Pls read my previous post :D
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

Or in the case of the last two Democrats that have occupied 1600 PA Ave., they could become President.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

I am going to take a different approach to this question

Instead of asking about "Morality" how about "Pertinence". Let say you are the last of your bloodline, and you find that you cannot provide for a child. I say that it is necessary to produce a child regardless in order for your bloodline to continue. The need for your family to continue outweighs any issue of morality concerning the welfare of the child.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

I am going to take a different approach to this question

Instead of asking about "Morality" how about "Pertinence". Let say you are the last of your bloodline, and you find that you cannot provide for a child. I say that it is necessary to produce a child regardless in order for your bloodline to continue. The need for your family to continue outweighs any issue of morality concerning the welfare of the child.



I'm not so sure about that.
 
If a person plans to have a child knowing that the kid(s) will not be provided a reasonable life (talking USA standards here) -- good education, not worrying about housing/food/clothes, access to opportunities to really exceed in life, etc, is that person making an immoral choice and should they be held accountable for it?

If I was unable to have a good paying job, and I knew that by having a kid I would be dooming that person to a life of struggle, pain, and a great likelihood of not accomplishing much (and probably turning criminal, etc), how could I say I really loved that child? What would I tell him when he or she is older and asks why I put them through such struggles?

I am going to take a different approach to this question

Instead of asking about "Morality" how about "Pertinence". Let say you are the last of your bloodline, and you find that you cannot provide for a child. I say that it is necessary to produce a child regardless in order for your bloodline to continue. The need for your family to continue outweighs any issue of morality concerning the welfare of the child.


Why is the need for your blood line to continue so important?
heck if you cannot even afford to raise the child should you pass that lack of achievement on forward?
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top