Is it Constitutional to sign a bill without seeing it?

[Quantum Windbag]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

 

[Avatar4321]

If the President authorizes the signature... i dont really see the issue.

Besides, as long as the President doesnt veto within ten days, the bill is deemed to have been signed anyway. It's a moot point because even if a court ruled that the President cant sign this way, his lack of veto would make it a law anyway.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If the President authorizes the signature... i dont really see the issue.

Besides, as long as the President doesnt veto within ten days, the bill is deemed to have been signed anyway. It's a moot point because even if a court ruled that the President cant sign this way, his lack of veto would make it a law anyway.

It is not moot because the provisions of the law they are worried about would have lapsed without his signature before midnight last night. That would leave us completely open to attack.

 

[G.T.]

I missed the part where he didn't read it.

 

[Publius1787]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

Here is the question you are asking. "Is it ok for a machine to sign a bill in to law." The answer is easily no.

 

[beowolfe]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

When you have your wife sign your name on your check, it's it legal?

 

[Publius1787]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

When you have your wife sign your name on your check, it's it legal?

No. Just as if she were to use my credit card with my permission. The president cannot delegate his specific constitutional authority to a machine. Will anyone complain? No. But is it legal? Also no. Any terrorists that that can prove that he is caught on us soil due to information received during the 10 day time frame can now contest the evidence and win.

 

[beowolfe]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.



Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

When you have your wife sign your name on your check, it's it legal?

No. Just as if she were to use my credit card with my permission. The president cannot delegate his specific constitutional authority to a machine. Will anyone complain? No. But is it legal? Also no. Any terrorists that that can prove that he is caught on us soil due to information received during the 10 day time frame can now contest the evidence and win.

And exactly who said you can't legally delegate signatory authority to your wife? As for using your credit card w/o your permission, you should go back and read the fine print on your credit card contract. The POTUS can authorize the 'autopen' to be used to sign a bill as far as I know. The constitution says he must sign it, it doesn't define 'sign'. So, it will be up to lawyers and judges to determine what 'sign' means in the constitution. But since I know that he authorized the use of the autopen, I don't have a problem with it. But I do have a problem with the Patriot Act.

 

[G.T.]

I had to get a Government Authorized online signature. That was what.................2002 I think.

Get with the times. It's technology. If you know he "authorized" the bill, which is in effect what his signature is only meant to REFLECT, then this is poo-pooing childish bullshit that nobody really gives a fuck about....to be frank.

 

[Publius1787]

When you have your wife sign your name on your check, it's it legal?

No. Just as if she were to use my credit card with my permission. The president cannot delegate his specific constitutional authority to a machine. Will anyone complain? No. But is it legal? Also no. Any terrorists that that can prove that he is caught on us soil due to information received during the 10 day time frame can now contest the evidence and win.

And exactly who said you can't legally delegate signatory authority to your wife? As for using your credit card w/o your permission, you should go back and read the fine print on your credit card contract. The POTUS can authorize the 'autopen' to be used to sign a bill as far as I know. The constitution says he must sign it, it doesn't define 'sign'. So, it will be up to lawyers and judges to determine what 'sign' means in the constitution. But since I know that he authorized the use of the autopen, I don't have a problem with it. But I do have a problem with the Patriot Act.

The President cannot give Power of Auttourney to an autopen and delegate SPECIFIC constitutional requirements to a machine. Trust me. If any lawyer finds that information of his client was gathered during the 10 day time perioud he could have it thrown out.

 

[G.T.]

tHE ISSUE IS SOOO 1995
ABC News pointed out that the issue of the constitutionality of the autopen was studied in 1995 and that then-Deputy Attorney General Howard C. Nielson confirmed that using an autopen to sign a bill into law is indeed constitutional.

“We examine the legal understanding of the word ’sign’ at the time the Constitution was drafted and ratified and during the early years of the Republic,” Nielson wrote in an Office of Legal Counsel opinion. “We find that, pursuant to this understanding, a person may sign a document by directing that his signature be affixed to it by another. … Reading the constitutional text in light of this established legal understanding, we conclude that the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill to sign it within the meaning of Article I, Section 7 [of the Constitution.]”



Read more: Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

 

[jillian]

The President cannot give Power of Auttourney to an autopen and delegate SPECIFIC constitutional requirements to a machine. Trust me. If any lawyer finds that information of his client was gathered during the 10 day time perioud he could have it thrown out.

and you rely on what for that assertion?

 

[beowolfe]

No. Just as if she were to use my credit card with my permission. The president cannot delegate his specific constitutional authority to a machine. Will anyone complain? No. But is it legal? Also no. Any terrorists that that can prove that he is caught on us soil due to information received during the 10 day time frame can now contest the evidence and win.

And exactly who said you can't legally delegate signatory authority to your wife? As for using your credit card w/o your permission, you should go back and read the fine print on your credit card contract. The POTUS can authorize the 'autopen' to be used to sign a bill as far as I know. The constitution says he must sign it, it doesn't define 'sign'. So, it will be up to lawyers and judges to determine what 'sign' means in the constitution. But since I know that he authorized the use of the autopen, I don't have a problem with it. But I do have a problem with the Patriot Act.

The President cannot give Power of Auttourney to an autopen and delegate SPECIFIC constitutional requirements to a machine. Trust me. If any lawyer finds that information of his client was gathered during the 10 day time perioud he could have it thrown out.

Is that your opinion or are you basing that on some law that no one has ever heard of. And if it's only your opinion, then it's pretty much worthless.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I missed the part where he didn't read it.

Is that because I did not say anything about him reading it?

 

[G.T.]

So you're saying now that he read it but didn't "see" it?> check your OP title, ya windbag.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

When you have your wife sign your name on your check, it's it legal?

I am not the president. The Constitution specifies that the bill has to be presented to the President and that he has to sign it. If Obama wants to let Michelle sign his personal checks he is entirely free to do so. If he wants her to sign the checks that are written in my name that is another matter.

Thanks for proving me right about the Obamabots though.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

tHE ISSUE IS SOOO 1995
ABC News pointed out that the issue of the constitutionality of the autopen was studied in 1995 and that then-Deputy Attorney General Howard C. Nielson confirmed that using an autopen to sign a bill into law is indeed constitutional.

“We examine the legal understanding of the word ’sign’ at the time the Constitution was drafted and ratified and during the early years of the Republic,” Nielson wrote in an Office of Legal Counsel opinion. “We find that, pursuant to this understanding, a person may sign a document by directing that his signature be affixed to it by another. … Reading the constitutional text in light of this established legal understanding, we conclude that the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill to sign it within the meaning of Article I, Section 7 [of the Constitution.]”



Read more: Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

And I disagree with him.

But thanks for proving you can find Democrats who think it is legal.

 

[boedicca]

As Obama's has delegated his verbal communication to a set of Teleprompters, tis fittin' that he delegate signing documents to an Autopen.

 

[G.T.]

Thanks for proving that partisans usually faux freak about inane drivel because they're disengenuous partisans. Just another day.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So you're saying now that he read it but didn't "see" it?> check your OP title, ya windbag.

Again, where did I say anything about him reading it? Or not reading it? As for seeing it, he was 3500 miles away, do you think they held it up to a TV camera for him?