Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[toastman]

Liar. You answered nothing
What are Palestines current borders and where are the agreements? Im not talking about 1922

 

[Bumberclyde]

Because Right of Return is a pipe dream, that's why

Ya, like, who ever gave back stolen shit anyways?

So you think the Israeli government will allow for Israel to be flooded with tens of thousands of Palestinians, many of who are likely very hostile towards Israel ?

I'm sure that won't cause any problems

Maybe it's time for Israelis to ask themselves: why are these people SO pissed off that we have to pass a law not allowing them to return to their homes? Is it possibly time to make things right?

 

[Hossfly]

Ya, like, who ever gave back stolen shit anyways?

So you think the Israeli government will allow for Israel to be flooded with tens of thousands of Palestinians, many of who are likely very hostile towards Israel ?

I'm sure that won't cause any problems

Maybe it's time for Israelis to ask themselves: why are these people SO pissed off that we have to pass a law not allowing them to return to their homes? Is it possibly time to make things right?

Who is this, really?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Liar. You answered nothing
What are Palestines current borders and where are the agreements? Im not talking about 1922

1922 is when the final international border was defined.

If you think those borders have been disputed, it is up to you to post those disputes.

If not they remain unchanged.

 

[Hossfly]

Bumberclyde, et al,

Yes, good question.


(COMMENT)

This is somewhat of a reverse view.

Israeli law doesn't actually "bar" people from entering Israel. What it does is outline who can enter and under what circumstances.

Almost all displaced persons have some grievance with the based on a perception of their claim. That is why these are best negotiated out; or, subjected to legal adjudication.

However, these have not been methods the Palestinians have chosen in the past to avail themselves. The history of their behaviors is that they choose the combative approach; very HAMAS like.

Most Respectfully,
R

People who have homes in Israel cannot go home.

Why is that?

That is to be determined in negotiations. The dad of a friend of mine was forced out of his home in Egypt, but he started a clothing store here in Brooklyn. This friend now works in the media. Like Tom Petty sang, "You don't have to live like a refugee." My parents were also once refugees, but they went on with their lives.

Many people have been refugees. There were millions and millions of displaced persons as a result of World War II, and they moved thousands of miles from their homes and had to learn a new language and a new culture. Many of these people were very successful, whether they went to America, Canada or to countries south of our border. Even today we have many refugees from all over the world, and I doubt most of them are wishing to go back to their origin country. The main thing is that the "Palestinians" and the rest of the Muslim world want to flood Israel with Muslims so that they eventually can take over. It is devastating to them that Jews should actually govern one tiny piece of land when it should belong to Muslims.

 

[toastman]

Liar. You answered nothing
What are Palestines current borders and where are the agreements? Im not talking about 1922

1922 is when the final international border was defined.

If you think those borders have been disputed, it is up to you to post those disputes.

If not they remain unchanged.

I've showed you the agreements with Israel and Egypt as well as Israel and Jordan. Those agreements that gave Israel INTERNATIONALLY recognized borders were made well after 1922

Then theres the link I gave you that says Palestine has not internationally recognized territorial borders.
Back to the main question. What are Palestines current borders that you claim? Post them so we can have a look.

 

[Hossfly]

Liar. You answered nothing
What are Palestines current borders and where are the agreements? Im not talking about 1922

1922 is when the final international border was defined.

If you think those borders have been disputed, it is up to you to post those disputes.

If not they remain unchanged.

No one is disputing the borders because they don't exist anymore. Why can't you accept reality? Why don't you contact your beloved UN and have them send you proof of the actual borders?

 

[toastman]

Funny think about Tinnie is that he says I'M the one who has to dispute what he said

 

[toastman]

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace was signed on October 26, 1994. The treaty resolved territorial and border issues that were ongoing since the 1948 war. The treaty specified and fully recognized the international border between Israel and Jordan. Upon its signing, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan

The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, signed on March 26, 1979 created an officially recognized international border along the 1906 line, with Egypt renouncing all claims to the Gaza Strip

 

[P F Tinmore]

Liar. You answered nothing
What are Palestines current borders and where are the agreements? Im not talking about 1922

1922 is when the final international border was defined.

If you think those borders have been disputed, it is up to you to post those disputes.

If not they remain unchanged.

I've showed you the agreements with Israel and Egypt as well as Israel and Jordan. Those agreements that gave Israel INTERNATIONALLY recognized borders were made well after 1922

Then theres the link I gave you that says Palestine has not internationally recognized territorial borders.
Back to the main question. What are Palestines current borders that you claim? Post them so we can have a look.

You are still not posting any disputes. You only have say so. Show some documents saying that Palestine's borders were changed.

 

[toastman]

You havent even shown me what the borders are top begin with ??????????? So what is there to dispute

You have to be the all time worst debater on USMB

 

[P F Tinmore]

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace was signed on October 26, 1994. The treaty resolved territorial and border issues that were ongoing since the 1948 war. The treaty specified and fully recognized the international border between Israel and Jordan. Upon its signing, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan

The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, signed on March 26, 1979 created an officially recognized international border along the 1906 line, with Egypt renouncing all claims to the Gaza Strip

Israel attempts to back door borders with treaties with third countries. It claims borders on land it has never legally acquired.

 

[toastman]

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace was signed on October 26, 1994. The treaty resolved territorial and border issues that were ongoing since the 1948 war. The treaty specified and fully recognized the international border between Israel and Jordan. Upon its signing, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan

The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, signed on March 26, 1979 created an officially recognized international border along the 1906 line, with Egypt renouncing all claims to the Gaza Strip

Israel attempts to back door borders with treaties with third countries. It claims borders on land it has never legally acquired.

It's not Israels claim genius. Those are agreements that are internationally recognized. You cannot dispute those.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace was signed on October 26, 1994. The treaty resolved territorial and border issues that were ongoing since the 1948 war. The treaty specified and fully recognized the international border between Israel and Jordan. Upon its signing, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan

The Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, signed on March 26, 1979 created an officially recognized international border along the 1906 line, with Egypt renouncing all claims to the Gaza Strip

Israel attempts to back door borders with treaties with third countries. It claims borders on land it has never legally acquired.

It's not Israels claim genius. Those are agreements that are internationally recognized. You cannot dispute those.

Why not? They are not true. When did Israel legally acquire the land it claims a border to?

 

[toastman]

Israel attempts to back door borders with treaties with third countries. It claims borders on land it has never legally acquired.

It's not Israels claim genius. Those are agreements that are internationally recognized. You cannot dispute those.

Why not? They are not true. When did Israel legally acquire the land it claims a border to?

Deflection. You are blowing smoke. These are agreements that were signed by two countries.
Where are the agreements between 'Palestine' and Egypt?
What about 'Palestine' and Jordan ???

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Well, this is a view that I don't necessarily agree with; but we can certainly discuss it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Here are the basic interrogatives.

Indeed, the PA was created by foreigners and imposed on Palestine.

Do they really speak for the Palestinians?

(QUESTION)

• Who speaks for the Palestinians?
  • Gaza
  • West Bank
  • Other Refugees

Israel No seriously. All the MSM outlets have their offices in Israel. All articles about Palestine are written in Israel. Only select information gets reported.

(COMMENT)

• Middle East Newspapers and News Sites - World Newspapers
  
• Broadcast Media: The Middle East and North Africa

The PLO

(COMMENT)

Is not Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), the Chairman of the PLO?

• What validity does State of Palestine Have?

• Borders?
• Government?
  • How does it communicate?
  • Does it have a Constitution of some foundation for the Government?
  • Who is the leader (Head of State) for Palestine?
  • Where is the seat of Government?
• Self-Sustaining?

Palestine has had international borders since 1922.

(COMMENT)

There was no such country as Palestine. In 1922, the territory was remanded into the custody and trusteeship of the Allied Powers and the League of Nations. The boundaries for the Territory under the Mandate of Palestine were designated by the Allied Powers; in accordance with the Treaty.

Palestine is now under the Amended Basic Law of 2003. It defines the executive, legislative, and judicial branches. It has a bill of rights similar to, and in some instances more comprehensive than, the US constitution. It was written with the assistance of a US constitutional scholar.

(COMMENT)

Reference: THE PALESTINIAN BASIC LAW (PBL):

This temporary Basic Law draws its strength from the will of the Palestinian people, their firm rights, their continuous struggle and the exercise of their democratic right – as represented in the election of the President of the Palestinian National Authority and the members of the Palestinian Legislative Council – to commence the organization and establishment of a sound, democratic and legislative life in Palestine.​

• 2003 Amended Basic Law
• Amendment to the Basic Law in 2005

Yes, let's look at that.

• Under The PBL Palestine is an Islamic.
• Under The PBL, it follows Islamic Shari’a (Law).
• Under The PBL, the principle of the rule of law (RoL) shall be the basis of government in Palestine.

This is a relatively young document, less than two Presidential terms old. Already it is in conflict with the HAMAS Covenant and the PNA Charter.

(b) The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....​

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international
disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

SOURCE: http://www.unrol.org/files/3dda1f104.pdf
OR
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/2625(XXV)

• Article 13 of Covanent: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 9 of Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

There is a serious problem with leadership. The last legally constituted government was the unity government of March 2007. It was the model government in the ME.

(COMMENT)

Yes, well, there are few governments in the Middle East that change on schedule. Abu Mazen's term should be ending soon.

The US and Israel did not like it. With the assistance of the US and Israel, Abbas attempted to overthrow the legal government. When this coup failed in Gaza in June of 2007, Abbas quit the government.

Again, with the help of the US and Israel Abbas set up an illegal government in the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

There is nothing that is illegal in that region of the world. While I did not then, and do not now, exercise my vote in support of US Policy there, it was a consensus that HAMAS would be an obstruction to the peace process. And that turned out to be more true than not.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's not Israels claim genius. Those are agreements that are internationally recognized. You cannot dispute those.

Why not? They are not true. When did Israel legally acquire the land it claims a border to?

Deflection. You are blowing smoke. These are agreements that were signed by two countries.
Where are the agreements between 'Palestine' and Egypt?
What about 'Palestine' and Jordan ???

2. This withdrawal shall begin on the day after that which follows the signing of this Agreement, at 0500 hours GMT, and shall be beyond the Egypt-Palestine frontier.

. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Israel claims it has borders on that land. When did Israel legally acquire that land?

 

[toastman]

It's not just Israel. The borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED. You cannot dispute those treaties.

 

[toastman]

Egypt and Jordan also signed the treaties Tinmore. You really are not making sense . You cannot just claim that internationally recognized treaties are null. It doesn't work like that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Egypt and Jordan also signed the treaties Tinmore. You really are not making sense . You cannot just claim that internationally recognized treaties are null. It doesn't work like that.

Israel claims borders on land that is not theirs.

You can recognize that all you want.