Is in vitro fertilization murder?

[AllieBaba]

They think sex is a sin. All of their policies about it have to do with the harlot should be punished for her sins. Nothing whatsoever to do with life. Try asking Allie Baby, yet again, what she thinks about the death penalty or blowing up A-rabs. ;o)

You've been delving into that leftist propoganda again, dear. I've told you you shouldn't do that before bedtime...you start confusing your dreams with reality.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm not trying to foist my morals upon anyone. You can have all the guilt-free sex you like. Just don't expect me to pay the bill when you get pregnant or come down with an STD, or need years of counseling for PTSD from your trip to the abortion clinic.

I don't believe the babies being aborted are non-human. I don't believe they aren't alive. I believe abortion is the murder of children. People who support abortion are supporting the murder of children. How is my belief in that an attempt to foist my morals down anybody's throat, any more than you are forcing your morals down my throat when you state that aborted babies have no souls and it is okay to butcher them? And we should all foot the bill?

The difference is, at the end of the day, you have a murdered baby on your hands, and I don't.

That said, I'm not foisting my morals down your throat. This is an issue which will come up for the vote, again and again. And eventually, everybody will see how barbaric state-sponsored abortion is and decry it. That's not foisting beliefs on anyone. That's democracy in action.

Absolutely you are foisting your morals down everybody's throat.

How about we outlaw religion. I am an athiest and believe that people who believe in some make-believe omnipotent being are just plain silly.

I do not believe anybody has a soul, let alone an unformed human. I thought your constitution was to protect the minority from the majority? Of course you are foisting your beliefs on somebody. Your posts have done nothing but say that this whole thread.

 

[Dr Grump]

Allie

It's not lost on me you taking this moral kinda high ground and how perfect you are, yet your avatar is pseudo porn. Not that I mind personally, I think it is funny as hell, but it goes to show YOUR state of mind and how you really think..

 

[AllieBaba]

I never said I was perfect. Not even close.

But just because I have an obnoxious avatar doesn't mean I think it's okay to kill babies. And if you believe nobody has a soul, let alone unformed babies, then you must believe it's equally okay to kill adults? Children under the age of....

And while you might enjoy outlawing religion (and pretty effectively stamping on everyone's freedom) and deciding who is worthy of life and who isn't, I believe in freedom of religion. And the sanctity of all life.

Not just some lives.

 

[bennylava]

Except for civilians in whatever country we decide to invade for greed's sake?

What was that line from George Carlin? About the only people who don't believe in abortion are the ones who've never had sex? I can't remember.

 

[AllieBaba]

Don't confuse individual acts and choices with acts of state. They aren't the same.

 

[Dr Grump]

I never said I was perfect. Not even close.

But just because I have an obnoxious avatar doesn't mean I think it's okay to kill babies. And if you believe nobody has a soul, let alone unformed babies, then you must believe it's equally okay to kill adults? Children under the age of....

And while you might enjoy outlawing religion (and pretty effectively stamping on everyone's freedom) and deciding who is worthy of life and who isn't, I believe in freedom of religion. And the sanctity of all life.

Not just some lives.

Huh? Because I don't believe in souls somehow equates to be killing people?? I don't believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy, but I don't know how you could equate that to me wanting to kill people. Very strange analogy to make. Weird even.

And I don't believe a baby is a life until it is born. Just the same with any other animal in the world. I believe in the freedom of religion and freedom of choice. You don't. You want to dictate your views and morals on others. It is called being a tyrant..

 

[AllieBaba]

So a baby "born" at 6 months is more deserving of life than a baby killed in utero at 6 months?

Makes perfect insane sense.

 

[Dr Grump]

Babies are aborted at six months old?? Wow? How often does this happen and under what circumstances...

 

[Gunny]

That it would be wrong to create embryos that are frozen. That makes no sense to me.

If it were up to me, they'd be used for stem cell research. Such a waste to leave them there. But the whole conccept that it could somehow be wrong to avail oneself of a miracle of science. I just don't get it.

My question to you is this:

Why? Why would you use embryos for stem cell research when embryonic stem cell research has netted nothing but cancerous/malignant cells? Stem cell research itself has netted actually nothing but promises of "someday maybe," but at least adult stem cells can be played with in a Petrie dish without creating malignant cells.

I don't get why some scientist can say something and everyone jumps on "we have to do something" without a clue. The same can be said for global warming.

Maybe stem cell research can cure THAT.

 

[jillian]

My question to you is this:

Why? Why would you use embryos for stem cell research when embryonic stem cell research has netted nothing but cancerous/malignant cells? Stem cell research itself has netted actually nothing but promises of "someday maybe," but at least adult stem cells can be played with in a Petrie dish without creating malignant cells.

I don't get why some scientist can say something and everyone jumps on "we have to do something" without a clue. The same can be said for global warming.

Maybe stem cell research can cure THAT.

THey don't net cancerous and malignant cells. They are "tumorous", which means the cells reproduce and they grow into the body parts they're supposed to. If they weren't "tumorous", they would be useless. But the rabid right decided to use that to pretend that ESC's cause cancer. Good PR, right? Too bad it's a lie and distortion.

 

[Gunny]

THey don't net cancerous and malignant cells. They are "tumorous", which means the cells reproduce and they grow into the body parts they're supposed to. If they weren't "tumorous", they would be useless. But the rabid right decided to use that to pretend that ESC's cause cancer. Good PR, right? Too bad it's a lie and distortion.

Ummm ... not? The findings were posted on this board. The cells were malignant. Not PR ... fact.

Methinks you might be confused as to who is listening to the PR.

 

[bennylava]

Well I do have a stepsister who has a phD from Harvard in genetics/biology and she wrote a book about things like this which I read. Does that mean anything to you?
I am not stupid and I don't believe most of what the media just hands to us, I try to read different sources and find out for myself.

 

[AllieBaba]

Babies are aborted at 6 months all the time. In Oregon and other states there is no law which dictates the maximum age of an unborn baby. I've seen women who were obviously very pregnant (I'd say around 7 months, but she was a small woman so it may have been 6-1/2) waiting for an abortion.

It amazes me that people will defend practices they know nothing about.

 

[jillian]

Babies are aborted at six months old?? Wow? How often does this happen and under what circumstances...

Answer: late term abortions are rare. But the more rabid members of the religious right love tossing stuff like that around. In other words, they take a kernel of truth, embellish and then run around repeating the embellishments.

The reality:

According to recent government reports, abortions are tending to occur earlier, when the procedure is safer. Jones said increased access to medication abortion can help accelerate that trend.

"For a long time, nearly 90 percent of abortions in the U.S. have taken place in the first trimester," she said. "But in recent years, women having an abortion have been able to do so earlier and earlier in the first trimester. Currently, more than 6 in 10 abortions occur within the first eight weeks of pregnancy, and almost 3 in 10 take place at six weeks or earlier."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-abortion_17jan17,1,2423802.story

 

[AllieBaba]

WHich proves nothing.

10 percent is not "rare" in my book, btw. And "recent government reports" is a pretty bland and broad reference to nothing.

Find a study. Personally, I find 10 percent of the total number of abortions per year an awful lot of babies that could have lived if they'd been put on respirators or in an incubator with some O2.

I wonder how rare late term abortions are at these facilities?
http://www.lateabortion.com/
http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinics_late_term.php


Here's what wikipedia says about late term abortions (basically we don't know how many there are)

Because the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's annual study on abortion statistics does not calculate the exact gestational age for abortions performed past the 20th week, there is no exact data for the number of abortions performed after viability. [13] In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year.[14

So I wonder what "government study" your rag was referring to? If the CDC doesn't have numbers (and why would they, they support abortions at all stages. I wouldn't want those stats laying around, either) then what "government agency" do you suppose keeps track?

Our lib politicians and abortionist defenders don't want us to keep track:
http://www.lifenews.com/state1668.html

As I said earlier, you won't find a pro-abortionist who will support a "deadline" on abortion. They want those babies dead.

 

[Shogun]

HA!

LIFENEWS?


and yet you cry about Jillians CHICAGO TRIB source?


good grief, Allie.. you make this so easy.

 

[rayboyusmc]

If we are truly concerned for the foetus, should we not also be concerned for the newly born baby in the US who has a higher chance of dying than some babies from third world countries?

Shouldn't we be concerned about the elderly who will die because the current medical system won't cover them?

If we care about the foetus, shouldn't we care equally about the person after he or she is born?

 

[mattskramer]

Good question. I think that a unique human life begins at conception. Women say “Lave my body alone” but when sperm unites with egg, the result is not her body. It is a different body. Half of the genetic makeup is from the father. Therefore, the destruction of what results from such a union is murder. Yet, sometimes murder is justified under special circumstances.

 

[AllieBaba]

So let's kill them before they have a chance?

The whole argument that we should allow them to be killed because they'd probably be miserable anyway is a useless one. All you're essentially saying is poor people shouldn't have children, so we should kill them.