Is God perfect?

[zaangalewa]

... Punishing Adam and Eve with expulsion doesn't indicate 'I'm fine with free will/choice.'

Seems to me you ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now you think you know god is not existing and why Christians are evil idiots - and that's why we are here and have to die. Sometimes I have the feeling there's not the paradise all around us. I fear one day you'll could even start to be friendly, lovefull and happy to show to us what agressive idiots we are.

 

[Bonzi]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing. Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

None of this would have happened if not for original sin.
The suffering in this world, however, is a nano-second compared to eternity.
We are unable to conceptualize that we will exist forever. We like to put all our "chips" into this life, as if, this is the only life we have. THIS Earthly life is just a BLINK of our REAL lives!

 

[zaangalewa]

Or do some just say he is being too lazy to look into it?

Cosmologists (astronomers who study the universe on the largest scales,) say that only because the early universe's distribution of matter was IMperfect, did the first stars form being attracted to other bits of matter, as opposed to if matter was perfectly/evenly distributed and everythign held in check by it's nearest neighbor particles. So we owe our very existence to imperfection. ...

Perfect - you know the answer but you ignore it. This world here is not perfect. Not even in the beginning it was perfect. Why? How can something be and why is not perfect what is? Would it not be much more easy a perfect nothing would exist? Or: Where is the paradise now? Behind every imperfectness - behind us? But what is in front of us? And ... damned ... why and how do we find intuitive logos in us and/or in this world here? What tell us the footprints in the sand? And why?

 

[zaangalewa]

"Perfect" can mean many different things.​

That's very true. Specially: The perfect is not perfect. Chaos is a might of life too while to much order can be deadly. The absolute perfectness - if it exists - seems to be the ability to keep a perfect balance between Chaos and Cosmos. But we don't know what it is concrete now in a special situation. We have always to find the balance again.

 

[zaangalewa]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing.

That's maybe one of the most important reasons god sent his son into this world here and his son - true god from true god - died on a cross like a criminal because of our sins. Whoever suffers knows: god is with him. And whatever we understand we know: God made not a joke when he created the world. He's with us - always. Even in our worst times he loves us - even in our hour of death he is with us. Who believes in god is not alone.

Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

Never anyone found an answer on this problem. Not even the most intelligent man the world ever had seen: Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. He never published anything - except about this problem called "Theodizee". So I think even he needed help with this problem but nobody was able to help him. Nevertheless I'm convinced he was right when he said: "We are living in the best of all possible worlds". That's not sarcasm.

 

[BreezeWood]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing.

That's maybe one of the most important reasons god sent his son into this world here and his son - true god from true god - died on a cross like a criminal because of our sins. Whoever suffers knows: god is with him. And whatever we understand we know: God made not a joke when he created the world. He's with us - always. Even in our worst times he loves us - even in our hour of death he is with us. Who believes in god is not alone.

Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

Never anyone found an answer on this problem. Not even the most intelligent man the world ever had seen: Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. He never published anything - except about this problem called "Theodizee". So I think even he needed help with this problem but nobody was able to help him. Nevertheless I'm convinced he was right when he said: "We are living in the best of all possible worlds". That's not sarcasm.

.

zaang: God made not a joke when he created the world. He's with us - always. Even in our worst times he loves us - even in our hour of death he is with us. Who believes in god is not alone.

Steven: I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

for a religionist christian, does the Almighty include by "us" the eye-fly as well - simply as a broader clarity for the destiny of all living creatures intertwined and seeking the same goal or God "only loves mankind" ?

or also that the Almighty may not punish the eye-fly with extinction the same as the threat made to mankind.

.

 

[zaangalewa]

e

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing.

That's maybe one of the most important reasons god sent his son into this world here and his son - true god from true god - died on a cross like a criminal because of our sins. Whoever suffers knows: god is with him. And whatever we understand we know: God made not a joke when he created the world. He's with us - always. Even in our worst times he loves us - even in our hour of death he is with us. Who believes in god is not alone.

Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

Never anyone found an answer on this problem. Not even the most intelligent man the world ever had seen: Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. He never published anything - except about this problem called "Theodizee". So I think even he needed help with this problem but nobody was able to help him. Nevertheless I'm convinced he was right when he said: "We are living in the best of all possible worlds". That's not sarcasm.

.

zaang: God made not a joke when he created the world. He's with us - always. Even in our worst times he loves us - even in our hour of death he is with us. Who believes in god is not alone.

Steven: I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

for a religionist christian, does the Almighty include by "us" the eye-fly as well - simply as a broader clarity for the destiny of all living creatures intertwined and seeking the same goal or God "only loves mankind" ?

or also that the Almighty may not punish the eye-fly with extinction the same as the threat made to mankind.

.

What is your problem? And what is an eye-fly? An animal? You and every real existing fly had a common ancestor. If someone had killed this common ancestor then you would not be a real existing entity. ... You are an living answer on everything what was before ... but not every answer seems to live for everyone. God may help me never to destroy a living answer. That's my prayer now. I don't know wether this is your prayer too. You know your prayers. You are the answers of your life. Not I.

 

[Steven_R]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing. Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

None of this would have happened if not for original sin.
The suffering in this world, however, is a nano-second compared to eternity.
We are unable to conceptualize that we will exist forever. We like to put all our "chips" into this life, as if, this is the only life we have. THIS Earthly life is just a BLINK of our REAL lives!

Which is it? Does God still hold a grudge and that's why kids get cancer? That whole Original Sin and we earned it because Eve had an apple OR God's cool with us because He allowed Himself to be nailed to a tree as a blood sacrifice to Himself? If the former, why bother with trying to appease Himself. If the latter, what does that say about God, that He lets bygones by bygones but still allows us to hurt because it just isn't enough?

 

[HaShev]

To answer the OP:
The God being described by the Hebrews is not a form type definition of creations source and power.
The power of life is an Essence/nature one being described in the most finite manner as that Essence to become complete and whole (evolve to be all we should & could be). That is why Genesis says their God takes that chaos (imperfect) and brings it order (striving for completeness and wholeness/perfection).
So the Hebrew God is not the created chaos it's that nature to bring order and justice to a chaotic world.

Christianity however is describing an alien being coming from the sky in radiant luciferous light who somehow we should see as infallible even though the Hebrew Bible warns of this perfect created image of a man claimed both christ & a god -Ezekiel 28 warning on Lucifer.
Even if we humored those Ancient Alien theorists and said that we were created by a race outside out solar system this would not make that Creator infallible or worth our progress to be venerating the alien who allowed us life here (especially if we were created as slaves). Because even that other Species would have a further process creating it, they would have that Essence I described as it's most finite creator.
Let me use an example analogy:
A pimply faced kid creates a fish bowl with sea monkeys, he is the creator of their world puting fresh water, pebbles and fake plants, and brings them to life.
He is their god just like agent Kay was the god of those locker aliens in the movie
" Men in Black", but was agent Kay the most finite source of all life? NO. =christian god fails to be the focus and path because they assume it infallible and venerate something
that is so objectified (idol) that they can't tell if it's in the direction and purpose of life or opposition. That pimply faced kid can let the water turn mucky, and he can jokingly stir up the water to form water funnels scattering the sea monkeys and causing them harm.
Is that kid bringing the sea monkeys to all they can be even though he's their creator?
So because Christian focus is on the affiliation and ego and not being in reflection /emulation and manifestation of that Essence to be it fails to be in line with creation and our purpose.

 

[kjw47]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing. Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

None of this would have happened if not for original sin.
The suffering in this world, however, is a nano-second compared to eternity.
We are unable to conceptualize that we will exist forever. We like to put all our "chips" into this life, as if, this is the only life we have. THIS Earthly life is just a BLINK of our REAL lives!

Which is it? Does God still hold a grudge and that's why kids get cancer? That whole Original Sin and we earned it because Eve had an apple OR God's cool with us because He allowed Himself to be nailed to a tree as a blood sacrifice to Himself? If the former, why bother with trying to appease Himself. If the latter, what does that say about God, that He lets bygones by bygones but still allows us to hurt because it just isn't enough?

Gods universal sovereignty was brought into question in Eden. When satan told Eve that we would become like God--he was saying. If we knew both sides( good and bad) ourselves we wouldn't need Gods advice to choose the best path to lasting happiness. That we then could choose for ourselves. So once and for all time, so that it can never occur again it is being proven one way or the other.
God created mortals to know only good, to live in a paradise forever, never being sick,etc--knowing only good, but then we would need to listen to his advice. God was correct--knowing bad such as children getting cancer--sucks. Gods kingdom will put it back to what God willed to start with.

 

[onefour1]

Is a perfect universe one in which the supreme ruler allows free will or rules by tyranny? The idea of a perfect God that must control absolutely everything is not my idea of a perfect God. What one might deem as a mistake, others might deem as a perfection.

My issue with God isn't the debate over free will versus predestination so much as a just and loving God that allows his favorite creation to suffer so much from things not of our actual doing. Diseases, genetic disorders, famine, floods, earthquakes, and a hundred other natural disasters. Even if Original Sin as a concept is valid, I find it hard to accept a loving god who creates pediatric leukemia and eye-flies that prey on babies.

I believe that God never created man's immortal spirit or intelligence. I believe it is self existent. For this reason man could not be created perfect. Ex Nihilo creation is not a true doctrine. God formed man's body from the dust of the earth and breathed into him his immortal spirit. Because God could not create man to be perfect, since the intelligence of man was self existent and could not be created, God had to give mankind experiences to teach him how to become more like himself. For this reason we come to this mortal earth. Here we learn lessons that will help us out in the eternities. All the pain, suffering, disease, heart ache, tears, and death are calculated to give man wisdom and understanding to make him more like God. In the end, this mortal life will only be a blip on the map of eternity and our souls will live forever and look back and thank God for the mortal experience. All men will resurrect and be immortal to never die again. If we have learned to live a more god like life, we will be so much better in the here after. I think man too quick to judge God on this matter without realizing that it is only a temporary state and if we but learn what God want us to learn in this life, we will be so much better in the life to come.

 

[aris2chat]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

 

[kjw47]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

No perfection with imperfect men involved-- God had 1 single religion in the ot-Israelites--they fell from his grace quite a few times. Jesus started 1 single religion--not many. 99% of all religion is false.

 

[aris2chat]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

No perfection with imperfect men involved-- God had 1 single religion in the ot-Israelites--they fell from his grace quite a few times. Jesus started 1 single religion--not many. 99% of all religion is false.

Religion goes back to 38,000 BCE Long before the OT

So, you want to explain how the first religion was perfect? Judaism evolved, it did not fall from the sky complete and pure from the hand of god.

 

[kjw47]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

No perfection with imperfect men involved-- God had 1 single religion in the ot-Israelites--they fell from his grace quite a few times. Jesus started 1 single religion--not many. 99% of all religion is false.

Religion goes back to 38,000 BCE Long before the OT

So, you want to explain how the first religion was perfect? Judaism evolved, it did not fall from the sky complete and pure from the hand of god.

Bible chronology has mankind on earth for 6040 years, so I don't know where you get your info.
There is no perfection where imperfect mortals are involved.

 

[there4eyeM]

To recognize perfection one would need to know perfection.

 

[aris2chat]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

No perfection with imperfect men involved-- God had 1 single religion in the ot-Israelites--they fell from his grace quite a few times. Jesus started 1 single religion--not many. 99% of all religion is false.

Religion goes back to 38,000 BCE Long before the OT

So, you want to explain how the first religion was perfect? Judaism evolved, it did not fall from the sky complete and pure from the hand of god.

Bible chronology has mankind on earth for 6040 years, so I don't know where you get your info.
There is no perfection where imperfect mortals are involved.

Bible is obviously wrong. There are religious sites and god figures from africa to eurasia going back to 38,000 BCE. Most are half man half animal figure. There are rituals as part of the religion beyond just burial. Places of offering.

 

[irosie91]

God is not perfect----but my sister-in-law is.
You can ask her yourself...........

 

[BreezeWood]

.
Purity is the obtainable goal and commandment (Noah's parable) necessary to accomplish Admission to the Everlasting, no scriptures or structured religion is necessary.

.

 

[kjw47]

No religion is perfect and many believe they are following god's words or demands.
If the books containing "god's words" is flawed and the religion is flawed, how can the god be perfect? A perfect god would not allow an imperfect religion to represent him.
Either religion is man made or god made.
There was no real religion before civilization. Religion was used to control the masses. So many religions through the ages, so how can one be the perfect religion? Why wasn't the first one perfect?

No perfection with imperfect men involved-- God had 1 single religion in the ot-Israelites--they fell from his grace quite a few times. Jesus started 1 single religion--not many. 99% of all religion is false.

Religion goes back to 38,000 BCE Long before the OT

So, you want to explain how the first religion was perfect? Judaism evolved, it did not fall from the sky complete and pure from the hand of god.

Bible chronology has mankind on earth for 6040 years, so I don't know where you get your info.
There is no perfection where imperfect mortals are involved.

Bible is obviously wrong. There are religious sites and god figures from africa to eurasia going back to 38,000 BCE. Most are half man half animal figure. There are rituals as part of the religion beyond just burial. Places of offering.

Who? says they are that old? scientist?