Is God Good?

[alang1216]

Sure. Free will isn't about what one will be or desire to be. Free will is about the choices one makes. I can't choose to be an NBA player, but I can make choices to do the things that might make me an NBA player.

If you genes have not made you tall, I think your chances are nil. Would if be fair to then judge you based on if you get picked for the NBA or not?

 

[percysunshine]

Why did God stick us with Trump?

Is God testing us?

He is testing Democrats....what do you think about the result so far?

 

[ding]

Sure. Free will isn't about what one will be or desire to be. Free will is about the choices one makes. I can't choose to be an NBA player, but I can make choices to do the things that might make me an NBA player.

If you genes have not made you tall, I think your chances are nil. Would if be fair to then judge you based on if you get picked for the NBA or not?

Again... free will isn't about you getting what you desire. Free will is about making choices.

For instance, let's say you are sexually attracted to the same sex. You may wish or desire to not be sexually attracted to the same sex. So there is no free will involved in your desire per se, but your choice to have sex with the same sex would be a choice and would involve free will.

 

[ding]

The key distinction here is that just because man does not have a choice in what he desires, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a choice in not acting upon his desires, nor does it negate the reality of free will.

 

[norwegen]

God is not good, per se, to idolaters, who were the Old Covenant people exiled from the Garden.

He is good to those who worship only Him, who are the New Covenant saints in the restored Garden, i.e., the Christians.

That would be a horrible worldview in my opinion. Not to mention it ignores forgiveness, redemption and mercy.

It's biblical, and it does not ignore mercy and redemption.

I don't think the Bible says that God is bad to people who don't worship him which is what is implied when you said God is good to those who worship only Him.

What you think doesn't change the Scriptures.

The Hebrew term sawtawn (the Greek satanas) refers to adversary, as God was with Balaam, though not the most righteous, was His own prophet nonetheless (Numbers 22: 22-30).

In First Chronicles 22, God is again, as always, upset with His spouse, Israel, for her lack of love for and faith in Him. The "Sawtawn stood against Israel." Regarding this incident of a census, 2 Samuel 24:1 records it as the Lord's anger being kindled against Israel.

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

 

[alang1216]

Sure. Free will isn't about what one will be or desire to be. Free will is about the choices one makes. I can't choose to be an NBA player, but I can make choices to do the things that might make me an NBA player.

If you genes have not made you tall, I think your chances are nil. Would if be fair to then judge you based on if you get picked for the NBA or not?

Again... free will isn't about you getting what you desire. Free will is about making choices.

For instance, let's say you are sexually attracted to the same sex. You may wish or desire to not be sexually attracted to the same sex. So there is no free will involved in your desire per se, but your choice to have sex with the same sex would be a choice and would involve free will.

So it is your actions alone that determine your fate, not anything you believe or think or feel. That doesn't sound like the NT to me.

 

[alang1216]

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

So in the old Israel was judged and punished or rewarded as a group while in the new Israel it is the individual who gets judged. Why the change?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die -- Ezekiel 18:24

 

[norwegen]

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

So in the old Israel was judged and punished or rewarded as a group while in the new Israel it is the individual who gets judged. Why the change?

Israel was often personified, as in Numbers 25:3, and also a nation of individuals, just like the church, which is the new bride (singular) and is also comprised of saints (plural).

No change in that regard.

 

[ding]

God is not good, per se, to idolaters, who were the Old Covenant people exiled from the Garden.

He is good to those who worship only Him, who are the New Covenant saints in the restored Garden, i.e., the Christians.

That would be a horrible worldview in my opinion. Not to mention it ignores forgiveness, redemption and mercy.

It's biblical, and it does not ignore mercy and redemption.

I don't think the Bible says that God is bad to people who don't worship him which is what is implied when you said God is good to those who worship only Him.

What you think doesn't change the Scriptures.

The Hebrew term sawtawn (the Greek satanas) refers to adversary, as God was with Balaam, though not the most righteous, was His own prophet nonetheless (Numbers 22: 22-30).

In First Chronicles 22, God is again, as always, upset with His spouse, Israel, for her lack of love for and faith in Him. The "Sawtawn stood against Israel." Regarding this incident of a census, 2 Samuel 24:1 records it as the Lord's anger being kindled against Israel.

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

You aren't seeing the full picture. Yes, God got angry at the Jews for forgetting him, but he always forgave them and never stopped loving them. The OT is effectively an account of what happens to a people who cycle between remembering and forgetting God. It serves as a historical parable so to speak.

The sun shines on the good and the bad. It rains on the good and the bad. God uses it all.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

So in the old Israel was judged and punished or rewarded as a group while in the new Israel it is the individual who gets judged. Why the change?

There is no change.

ANY NATION, whose God is the Lord, is judged as a nation, as well as the individuals. WE are under God's judgement now. Democrats are leading th he nation into rebellion in every aspect. They are disgusted by a righteous people.

 

[Votto]

The toughest question Religious folks must answer of skeptics is, "Why does God allow this to happen?"

Whether you are talking about human-engineered genocide, natural catastrophes, mass murder, or some other apparent injustice, "God" appears to have permitted it to happen (or commanded it to happen), and Why does God allow it to happen?

On the other side of the coin, we have evil people who are born wealthy, talented, beautiful, handsome, or are wildly successful - sometimes BECAUSE they are evil. They live their entire lives in the lap of luxury and die happy. How does God allow THIS to happen?

The core of the response is in life after death. We are taught to believe that the totality of human existence is not bounded by conception and natural death; that in some vaguely-defined way Evil is punished in the afterlife and Virtue is rewarded. The balancing effect of the "just desserts" of the afterlife excuses the obvious injustices (and this word is insufficient, certainly) of the life that we see.

If there is no afterlife, then God, if he does exist, is Evil.

Manifestly.

You are correct. The hardest thing religious folk has to explain is if there is a good and loving God then why is there suffering?

But if you an atheist, your task is much harder because you have to explain everything else.

 

[Votto]

The way I see it, God is good. If he wasn't, there would be no good.

But to say that God is bad because there is bad does not compute the same because there would be no good, that is, if that God was all powerful.

But to say that God is neither good nor bad is equally illogical because we see good and bad. Why would such a God implant in us the need for justice and goodness if he was neither?

 

[ding]

Sure. Free will isn't about what one will be or desire to be. Free will is about the choices one makes. I can't choose to be an NBA player, but I can make choices to do the things that might make me an NBA player.

If you genes have not made you tall, I think your chances are nil. Would if be fair to then judge you based on if you get picked for the NBA or not?

Again... free will isn't about you getting what you desire. Free will is about making choices.

For instance, let's say you are sexually attracted to the same sex. You may wish or desire to not be sexually attracted to the same sex. So there is no free will involved in your desire per se, but your choice to have sex with the same sex would be a choice and would involve free will.

So it is your actions alone that determine your fate, not anything you believe or think or feel. That doesn't sound like the NT to me.

It's the choices you make. That is 100% NT.

The Greek word for repent is "metanoia." Metanoia means to change your mind. Our thoughts, the flow of consciousness which determines our behaviors, can change. Metanoia has to do with moral activity, but goes beyond that. Jesus was teaching that we could change our mind about how we treat people. We don’t have to be unforgiving and cynical. We can change our mind about being negative. We can think positive thoughts and walk in faith instead of doubt. We can change our minds about sin. Rather than being caught in the strongholds of consistent habits of lust or selfishness, for example, we can experience freedom and selflessness. Jesus would not have told us to change unless it was possible and attainable. The Bible is full of words that speak about change. Repentance, metamorphosis, transformation, conversion, resurrection, rebirth, renewal, regeneration, healing and transfiguration.

 

[there4eyeM]

Naive and childish concepts of what 'God' is or would be lead to sad misunderstandings about existence.
An honest approach is to simply admit that we do not and cannot know enough to see what is for the best, or even what "best" is. We project onto existence our limited capacities and sensibilities. The childish images we formed as children pollute our adult mind. Crutches provided children by parents and society cripple us later.

 

[norwegen]

God is not good, per se, to idolaters, who were the Old Covenant people exiled from the Garden.

He is good to those who worship only Him, who are the New Covenant saints in the restored Garden, i.e., the Christians.

That would be a horrible worldview in my opinion. Not to mention it ignores forgiveness, redemption and mercy.

It's biblical, and it does not ignore mercy and redemption.

I don't think the Bible says that God is bad to people who don't worship him which is what is implied when you said God is good to those who worship only Him.

What you think doesn't change the Scriptures.

The Hebrew term sawtawn (the Greek satanas) refers to adversary, as God was with Balaam, though not the most righteous, was His own prophet nonetheless (Numbers 22: 22-30).

In First Chronicles 22, God is again, as always, upset with His spouse, Israel, for her lack of love for and faith in Him. The "Sawtawn stood against Israel." Regarding this incident of a census, 2 Samuel 24:1 records it as the Lord's anger being kindled against Israel.

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

You aren't seeing the full picture. Yes, God got angry at the Jews for forgetting him, but he always forgave them and never stopped loving them. The OT is effectively an account of what happens to a people who cycle between remembering and forgetting God. It serves as a historical parable so to speak.

View attachment 302295



The sun shines on the good and the bad. It rains on the good and the bad. God uses it all.

Being stuck in Fundyland with your theories on Revelation, you don't get the big picture.

A few good eggs - maybe some patriarchs and prophets - do not make for a righteous nation. In the transition from old to new, St. Paul sums up their idolatrous history for the Roman Christians:

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (Rom 1:21-23)​

 

[Votto]

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

So in the old Israel was judged and punished or rewarded as a group while in the new Israel it is the individual who gets judged. Why the change?

There is no change.

ANY NATION, whose God is the Lord, is judged as a nation, as well as the individuals. WE are under God's judgement now. Democrats are leading th he nation into rebellion in every aspect. They are disgusted by a righteous people.

If God were good, he would judge those who are bad.

After all, justice is "good".

 

[ding]

That would be a horrible worldview in my opinion. Not to mention it ignores forgiveness, redemption and mercy.

It's biblical, and it does not ignore mercy and redemption.

I don't think the Bible says that God is bad to people who don't worship him which is what is implied when you said God is good to those who worship only Him.

What you think doesn't change the Scriptures.

The Hebrew term sawtawn (the Greek satanas) refers to adversary, as God was with Balaam, though not the most righteous, was His own prophet nonetheless (Numbers 22: 22-30).

In First Chronicles 22, God is again, as always, upset with His spouse, Israel, for her lack of love for and faith in Him. The "Sawtawn stood against Israel." Regarding this incident of a census, 2 Samuel 24:1 records it as the Lord's anger being kindled against Israel.

The entire Old Testament is about God's wrath against His people whose failure of worship is their reason for exile. Hence the Messiah and the new Israel.​

You aren't seeing the full picture. Yes, God got angry at the Jews for forgetting him, but he always forgave them and never stopped loving them. The OT is effectively an account of what happens to a people who cycle between remembering and forgetting God. It serves as a historical parable so to speak.

View attachment 302295



The sun shines on the good and the bad. It rains on the good and the bad. God uses it all.

Being stuck in Fundyland with your theories on Revelation, you don't get the big picture.

A few good eggs - maybe some patriarchs and prophets - do not make for a righteous nation. In the transition from old to new, St. Paul sums up their history for the Roman Christians:

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (Rom 1:21-23)​

You couldn't be more off base with your assumptions about me. I'm not a fundamentalist and I don't believe Revelations is about the end of times, I believe it is about the end of the Roman Empire.

I totally agree that God does not love having lipservice paid to him, I just question your ability to discern who does and doesn't.

I believe the original sin is worshiping created things instead of the creator which is driven by pride. Speaking of pride, maybe you should check yours because given your tone it would appear that I have wounded yours.

 

[Votto]

Naive and childish concepts of what 'God' is or would be lead to sad misunderstandings about existence.
An honest approach is to simply admit that we do not and cannot know enough to see what is for the best, or even what "best" is. We project onto existence our limited capacities and sensibilities. The childish images we formed as children pollute our adult mind. Crutches provided children by parents and society cripple us later.

Biblically we are told that God is love.

I think that sums it all up. Think about it, love is what makes us tick and what makes our lives meaningful. Just watch an infant who is never held or loved and just fed and diapered and a strange thing happens, they die without explanation.

Love, according to scientists who study the material word, love does not really exist, rather, it is just a complex mix of endocrine juices that we perceive as love. Trouble is, this nonexistent phenomenon is what gives our life meaning. So there you go, according to scientists are demand for love to give us meaning and worth is illogical and stupid because it does not really exist.

So for me, love is the only link between the material and spiritual, or the material and immaterial.

Now getting back to suffering, God is love but love is a double edged sword because to have a loving relationship, both parties must be free to accept or reject the other. So with rejection comes suffering and all the accoutrements, but without the said possibility of suffering love does not really exist. However, it is worth it I think.

 

[ding]

Naive and childish concepts of what 'God' is or would be lead to sad misunderstandings about existence.
An honest approach is to simply admit that we do not and cannot know enough to see what is for the best, or even what "best" is. We project onto existence our limited capacities and sensibilities. The childish images we formed as children pollute our adult mind. Crutches provided children by parents and society cripple us later.

314 We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history. But the ways of his providence are often unknown to us. Only at the end, when our partial knowledge ceases, when we see God "face to face",184 will we fully know the ways by which - even through the dramas of evil and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest185 for which he created heaven and earth.