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EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?Conservatives and libertarians support free trade between individuals and between countries in the belief that Republican capitalism works best in both cases. isn’t it amazing how despite liberals best efforts they really can’t hide from us the real And constant issue of political economy ie, capitalism versus socialism.
EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?Conservatives and libertarians support free trade between individuals and between countries in the belief that Republican capitalism works best in both cases. isn’t it amazing how despite liberals best efforts they really can’t hide from us the real And constant issue of political economy ie, capitalism versus socialism.
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements.
Enterprises choose to internationally outsource when they believed it's to their net advantage; (i.e. they perceived a comparative advantage to do so).
Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit.
Enterprises can directly benefit from purchasing imported goods but they do not pay for their decisions net detrimental effects upon USA's economy. Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.
We should not blame enterprises or persons for acting in what they (usually correctly) believe to be to their own individual best interests. USA's chronic annual trade deficits are a condition that we can recognize and remedy. If USA adopted the trade policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article, it would significantly, (if not entirely) eliminate our annual trade deficits of goods, increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.
Within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements. ...
... Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit. ... within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements. ...
... Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit. ... within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
Trump’s doing a pretty good job of doing just that to you rubesConservatives and libertarians support free trade between individuals and between countries in the belief that Republican capitalism works best in both cases. isn’t it amazing how despite liberals best efforts they really can’t hide from us the real And constant issue of political economy ie, capitalism versus socialism.
More expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements. ...
... Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit. ... within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
More expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements. ...
... Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit. ... within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
Lessening profit and production does not increase the GDPMore expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.EdwardBaiamonte, I responded to James972 within another group. His thread's title is EXACTLY as yours which was posted 3 minutes later. Do you also post over the pen-name James972?
James972, you're incorrect; the consequences of free trade among nations is not similar to consequences of free trade among self determined entities if the nations' governments were not among the principals that actually determined the individual trade or sales agreements. ...
... Enterprises discontinuing production of any item may benefit by numerous methods. They could shift their displaced labor to perform other tasks that need to be done, or dismiss higher priced and/or specialized labor to perform those other tasks, or simply dismiss their now excess labor with no additional hiring. Their choice of action will be dependent upon circumstances and in aggregate, those choices will be to the enterprise's net benefit. ... within an Import Certificate policy, what individual enterprises (correctly) perceive to be in their own best interests will also be to our nation's best interests.
Respectfully, Supposn
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
Well, the only important thing is that by reducing the trade deficit, you've increased GDP.
Just ask Supposn, he'll tell you.
Lessening profit and production does not increase the GDPMore expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.you'd buy a banana from a tropical county because it is cheaper than one grown local in a greenhouse. An intelligent country would not prevent you from buying from a tropical country tropical and rejecting local bananas if grown by individuals unless they wanted to reduce you standard of living. Get it now? We must be allowed to buy from those who have a comparative advantage.
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
Well, the only important thing is that by reducing the trade deficit, you've increased GDP.
Just ask Supposn, he'll tell you.
We create a thousand bananas but we used to create 500 and import 5,000 bananas. Stores that relied on bananas have to close, and people end up with way less bananas.Lessening profit and production does not increase the GDPMore expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Annual trade deficits, the aggregate net consequences of a nation's entire enterprises' global transactions reduce their nation's GDP and thus rather (as you contend increasing), they're actually reducing their nation's aggregate standard of living.
The concept of recognizing and prohibiting classifications of actions and transactions that are deemed to be net detrimental to our society is established in USA's laws and justifys the proposed Import Certificate trade policy. You understand but you do not approve of this response to your post; you do get it.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates”, and Encyclopedia Britannica's “GDP” articles.
Respectfully, Supposn
EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
Well, the only important thing is that by reducing the trade deficit, you've increased GDP.
Just ask Supposn, he'll tell you.
Profit.....living standards.....pffft.......it's all about the formula for GDP.
A trade deficit subtracts from GDP. If we produce 1000 bananas and they cost $1000 each, that's
an increase in GDP of $1,000,000. Combined with the reduction of banana imports to zero, our GDP will soar!
We create a thousand bananas but we used to create 500 and import 5,000 bananas. Stores that relied on bananas have to close, and people end up with way less bananas.Lessening profit and production does not increase the GDPMore expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.EdwardBaiamonte, aka James972, annual trade deficits are always nation's GDP and thus drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Exactly! We must grow our own bananas.
Because the jobs created to grow bananas, even if they would cost $5 each,
more than make up for the reduction in our standard of living that would result.
Well, the only important thing is that by reducing the trade deficit, you've increased GDP.
Just ask Supposn, he'll tell you.
Profit.....living standards.....pffft.......it's all about the formula for GDP.
A trade deficit subtracts from GDP. If we produce 1000 bananas and they cost $1000 each, that's
an increase in GDP of $1,000,000. Combined with the reduction of banana imports to zero, our GDP will soar!
I’m not getting involved with that messWe create a thousand bananas but we used to create 500 and import 5,000 bananas. Stores that relied on bananas have to close, and people end up with way less bananas.Lessening profit and production does not increase the GDPMore expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.
Well, the only important thing is that by reducing the trade deficit, you've increased GDP.
Just ask Supposn, he'll tell you.
Profit.....living standards.....pffft.......it's all about the formula for GDP.
A trade deficit subtracts from GDP. If we produce 1000 bananas and they cost $1000 each, that's
an increase in GDP of $1,000,000. Combined with the reduction of banana imports to zero, our GDP will soar!
Try that logic on Supposn. He'll explain why you're wrong.
well sort of. yes less demand for hot house bananas, but then more demand for say apples. The loss of wealth comes from now buying apples that were actually more expensive in a free market thanks to higher resource inputs . Thus you get poorer or have less wealth from buying high resource input apples rather than bananas.More expensive bananas means less demand for bananas, which results in less production of bananas. Congratulations, you’ve destroyed wealth.
Toddsterpatrio, good luck with your business plan. But within our current trade policy, I doubt your proposal to produce bananas within the USA will be commercially successful.Profit.....living standards.....pffft.......it's all about the formula for GDP.
A trade deficit subtracts from GDP. If we produce 1000 bananas and they cost $1000 each, that's
an increase in GDP of $1,000,000. Combined with the reduction of banana imports to zero, our GDP will soar!
Toddsterpatrio, good luck with your business plan. But within our current trade policy, I doubt your proposal to produce bananas within the USA will be commercially successful.Profit.....living standards.....pffft.......it's all about the formula for GDP.
A trade deficit subtracts from GDP. If we produce 1000 bananas and they cost $1000 each, that's
an increase in GDP of $1,000,000. Combined with the reduction of banana imports to zero, our GDP will soar!
Yes! We'll still have bananas!
If USA ever adopts the proposal described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates article, It's expected enterprises importing banana's into the USA will continue importing foreign bananas. Their additional costs for acquiring Import certificates would (of course) be passed on to their customers.
[The federal fee rates per U.S. dollar of certificates' “face values” (which exporters of USA products choose to pay in order to acquire Import Certificates), are based upon the assessed values of their shipments of goods leaving the USA. Those rates are set and annually updated to only defray direct federal net expenses due to this policy. Import Certificates values in global markets drive the increased prices of imports paid by USA's final purchasers and consumers. Import price increases beyond the federal fees paid by exporters of USA goods, (i.e. any Import Certificates markets' rather than federally determined price increases) passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods, serve as indirect but effective price subsidies of USA exported goods].
Due to lower wage rates and other price advantages of foreign rather than USA produced bananas, it is not expected that the additional prices of bananas due to Import Certificates would significantly reduce USA sales of foreign bananas; (unless these market changes make Hawaiian and/or Puerto Rican and/or U.S. Virgin Island, and/or Louisiana bananas more price competitive).
Respectfully, Supposn
Toddsterpatriot, if your company is willing and able to sustain that expense, yes it would increase USA's GDP if the manner of your accomplishing that goal did not in some manner also undermine your efforts, and similarly dependent upon your method, you may also increase our nation's numbers of jobs.Successful? Who cares, my plan increases our GDP.
That's the most important thing, isn't it?
Toddsterpatriot, if your company is willing and able to sustain that expense, yes it would increase USA's GDP if the manner of your accomplishing that goal did not in some manner also undermine your efforts, and similarly dependent upon your method, you may also increase our nation's numbers of jobs.Successful? Who cares, my plan increases our GDP.
That's the most important thing, isn't it?
The import Certificate policy is expected to sustainably increase our annual GDP and numbers of jobs because it does better enable USA exports subsidized by USA volumes of imports, and is dependent upon what has been our past experiences of competitive markets behaviors; (i.e. it's dependent upon enterprises and individuals seeking the most advantageous or least disadvantageous of alternatives available to them). Essentially that's the basis of the concept described as “comparative advantage”.
Respectfully, Supposn
ToddsterPatriot, you don't understand the concept of Import Certificates.If the government allowed zero imports of bananas, I'd gladly grow them for $1000 each.
How much do you think GDP would increase under such a plan?
ToddsterPatriot, you don't understand the concept of Import Certificates.If the government allowed zero imports of bananas, I'd gladly grow them for $1000 each.
How much do you think GDP would increase under such a plan?
It is substantially market driven; government does not determine what's globally shipped where, or when, or at what price.
Import Certificate law cannot and will not be able to prevent importation of any item for which there's an effective demand within the USA.
If you're not willing and able to continue spending $1,000 each to produce domestic bananas, and/or sell them at that price, your business plan couldn't sustain any contributions to increase USA's annual GDPs.
Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Respectfully, Supposn
