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Said1 said:Bottom end meaning they are standardized product, and the designs are stable and perfected. It doesn't mean it's crap, it just means everyone else has one, like a microwave.
What does your "knowledge" of violations have to do with outsourcing?
I would argue that working for the treasury doesn't necessarily mean you are familiar with the business side of things. Especially from a market competitiveness. Although you sure would have a deep understanding of the fraud side and the dealings of export licensing, etc.archangel said:Nah...no experience....just 12 years as a import/export law enforcement officer...Dept of Treas...USCS...I am very familiar with the fraud that US companies did prior to this abomination of justice... :funnyface
gop_jeff said:Here's a great article explaining free trade, and why it's beneficial for America. It was written in 1995, when NAFTA was such a controversy.
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Prior to ratification of the Constitution, states had their own development policies. Some, like Virginia, tried to stimulate their existing agricultural cash crops; others, like Connecticut, tried to stimulate industrial development at the expense of agriculture. Each state had its own paper currency which appreciated or depreciated against those of other states, increasing uncertainty and therefore inhibiting interstate trade. Large and unequal government debt existed from state to state. Some, like Rhode Island, inflated it away and suffered a boom-bust cycle; others, like Massachusetts, raised taxes to pay it, squelching economic activity and spawning open rebellion.
Delegates from the states sent to Constitutional Convention in 1787 put high priority on solving these problems of interstate trade. That's why the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress to coin money and forbids the states from printing or coining money; it forbids the states from erecting trade barriers and authorizes Congress to regulate commerce with foreign nations and among the several states.
By allowing the market to broaden, the integration of state economies had immense benefits. A uniform money removed the inefficiency of bartering different monies and the uncertainty of currency fluctuations. Elimination of trade barriers allowed the division of labor to develop unimpeded, thereby greatly increasing productivity by an efficient allocation of factors of production.
QUOTE]
No one is denying that free trade doesnt have its benefits. The benefit of economic of scales dictates that a bigger market will result in more profits for any given product, it also dictates that only the most efficient and productive companies will survive.
Basically it says if you have a unique product that can be sold to the world you can make a fortune, but the odds of you having a unique product to sell to the world shrinks by the same proportion. The result is simple if you or your company or profession has a unique skill or product to sell then you will likely make a fortune, if not, then in a world economy the odds are that you, your profession, or company will like have to do with less.
The United States economy is largely the result of a large market (large population), with plenty of resource and citizen with a strong belief and education to succeed. European countries have also benefit greatly from educated workforces, and a history of trade amongst it neighbors. Japan has also a long history of success dating back before even World War II, but has been very successful with closer relationships with the West. Taiwan and Korea has also benefited from trading with the West and Japan.
With respect to the third world and the former socialist countries, most of which are currently either actively engaging in the global economy or soon will be, dont have the same history of economic success as the former countries mentioned above. China and India have had great success in the past decade, but still have a very low income per capital, and likely will stay this way for a few more decades. Most of the world is in the same boat, and the big question is how can one billion well to do world citizens raise the standard of living of five billion not so well off members.
NAFTA has failed to raise the standard of living in Mexico after being around 10 years, and some sources I have read say thing have actually gotten worse. It obvious that millions still flee to the United States even though weve been sending jobs form the United States to Mexico for decades now. China is struggling with raising the value of its currency because many Southeast Asian counties have had mixed success in the world economy, initially benefit from foreign outsourcing, then seeing these same companies flee to a cheaper labor market the second their countries wages go up or another countries moves into the global market will to work for less.
The United States for the past five years has had a trade deficit between 400 to 600 billion dollars. The most optimist economist that I have read believes that any trade deficit above 200 billion dollars isnt sustainable. Which means that the US will have to either stop buying 200-400 billion dollars worth of foreign goods or somehow in the next few years the world need to buy that much goods from use.
Just a though, even if it is a long one.
yes they were, but with the advent of WTO, etc., they are being obsoleted for all reasons EXCEPT defence applications. I require End User Statements for anything over a specific frequency. Generally, 18 GHz. I hate having to get State Department Licenses, but I have had to do it. I even had to get one once just to submit a proposal. No transfer of product....archangel said:Export/Import laws were created and put in place to protect our economy and security...Therefore knowledge of export/import laws does relate to outsourcing knowledge...
freeandfun1 said:I would argue that working for the treasury doesn't necessarily mean you are familiar with the business side of things. Especially from a market competitiveness. Although you sure would have a deep understanding of the fraud side and the dealings of export licensing, etc.
Right after 911 I called the FBI because I kept getting inquiries from companies in Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, etc. for items which I know are used in missile systems. I export microwave components and sub-systems used in military applications. I work primarily with the Korean government and their defense contractors but also some with Taiwan and Singapore. I many times I have had RFQ's for products which I suspected were for transfer to other nations. I will not bid on those type RFQ's because I WILL NOT risk being put on the export "black-list". I started out working for a Korean owned export company dealing with S. Korea's nuclear industry. That owner was very smarmy and I had to quit. We called the FBI, NRC and everybody we could think of on the guy but all anybody seemed interested in was whether he was trafficking drugs are not. They didn't care that he was forging CofC's for parts used in nuclear power plants in Korea.... Everyday we just knew we were going to come to work and the office would be surrounded by the FBI or something....
freeandfun1 said:yes they were, but with the advent of WTO, etc., they are being obsoleted for all reasons EXCEPT defence applications. I require End User Statements for anything over a specific frequency. Generally, 18 GHz. I hate having to get State Department Licenses, but I have had to do it. I even had to get one once just to submit a proposal. No transfer of product....
uhhh.... I think (sure) that is what I have made clear that I do. I am EXTREMELY familiar with exporting. I have been doing it for 12 years now. Ten as a business owner.archangel said:Always contact the State Department for license application whenever dealing with export of high tech...will save you alot of grief rather than a little annoyance!
archangel said:Sorry had to answer the phone and put some dinner on!
Answer to "Knowledge" re outsourcing!
When you outsource technology you in effect outsource jobs...which will follow the technology...be it toys,cars,parts or high tech(just for a few).
Export/Import laws were created and put in place to protect our economy and security...Therefore knowledge of export/import laws does relate to outsourcing knowledge...
freeandfun1 said:uhhh.... I think (sure) that is what I have made clear that I do. I am EXTREMELY familiar with exporting. I have been doing it for 12 years now. Ten as a business owner.
I know what can go "NLR" and what can't.
Said1 said:Sure, no dispute there.
As free said, on one hand, you would know a lot about the trade of restricted items, the busniess aspect and multinationals is another thing. However, I will admit, restricted sales is much more intersting!
archangel said:Would you not agree if one has knowledge on restricted items as they relate to outsourcing...then would it not also apply to non restricted items...outsourcing is outsourcing all have a effect on the economy!
Yes, but we are both referring to the nuances of the business. Seeing trends BEFORE they fully develop, understanding what it is the customer WILL BE wanting, not what he wants now.archangel said:Would you not agree if one has knowledge on restricted items as they relate to outsourcing...then would it not also apply to non restricted items...outsourcing is outsourcing all have a effect on the economy!
Said1 said:Would you not agree that minimizing costs is more often than not the initial cause of most outsourcing? Generally most multinationals are aware that the products they manufacture are being made elsewhere, since they made the choice to operate overseas. Illegal sales is wrong, but if you're also talking about other countries copying designs or reversed engineering, so what. Innovation is the key, not cheap knock offs right? You're essentially talking about two different things.
archangel said:You have it your way and I'll have it mine...or is that a "Burger King"phrase?
Hey we agree to disagree....we will see how the future sees this issue....I suspect eventually American Companys will wake up and see their own destruction only then will they repent!
freeandfun1 said:Yes, but we are both referring to the nuances of the business. Seeing trends BEFORE they fully develop, understanding what it is the customer WILL BE wanting, not what he wants now.
I tried warning several US companies in the 90's that they needed to stay on top of their technology or they were gonna get nipped in the bud by the Koreans (CDMA market). Some of the ones I represented listened and some didn't. Some are still in business, some are not. My primary focus today is on two manufacturers. At one time, I represented exclusively into certain markets up to 20 different manufacturers. I wore myself out and now I focus on a just a couple of manufacturers into specific markets - mostly military. I designed some US makers' parts into various systems in 1994 and they are JUST NOW going to production. Takes years when dealing with the military.
Minimizing cost is a major reason but so is gaining market share. I will be the first to admit that manufacturers are too eager transfer technology to gain market share. Too many times, US manufacturers end up having to play the game because the Europeans will do it. I recall in the early 90's how Motorola was trying to sell a trunked radio system to China. The Chinese government told them that if Motorola would do 1/2 of Beijing for "free", they "promised" that when the bidding took place for Shanghai, they wound ensure Motorola won no matter what. They then went to Ericsson and told Ericsson, if you will do Shanghai for free, we will give you Chungdu Province... When it came time for Chungdu Province, they gave it to another company because that company promised to transfer technology to China so they could manufacture locally part of the system. In the end, China was the only winner and in reality, everybody else lost out.Said1 said:Would you not agree that minimizing costs is more often than not the initial cause of most outsourcing? Generally most multinationals are aware that the products they manufacture are being made elsewhere, since they made the choice to operate overseas. Illegal sales is wrong, but if you're also talking about other countries copying designs or reversed engineering, so what. Innovation is the key, not cheap knock offs right? You're essentially talking about two different things.
Said1 said:I'm not saying my way is the only way and you're wrong, I'm saying most outsourcing is not the result of restricted trade. Come on, I know you agree!
freeandfun1 said:Minimizing cost is a major reason but so is gaining market share. I will be the first to admit that manufacturers are too eager transfer technology to gain market share. Too many times, US manufacturers end up having to play the game because the Europeans will do it. I recall in the early 90's how Motorola was trying to sell a trunked radio system to China. The Chinese government told them that if Motorola would do 1/2 of Beijing for "free", they "promised" that when the bidding took place for Shanghai, they wound ensure Motorola won no matter what. They then went to Ericsson and told Ericsson, if you will do Shanghai for free, we will give you Chungdu Province... When it came time for Chungdu Province, they gave it to another company because that company promised to transfer technology to China so they could manufacture locally part of the system. In the end, China was the only winner and in reality, everybody else lost out.
