Is faith a choice?

[AllieBaba]

Yet you still think you could honestly choose not to believe in God?

Of course I could, anybody could. Shogun does. It's a very conscious choice on his part.

People who have faith battle with it every day. I have days when I think, "Really, look at all this fascinating stuff about dinosaurs and primitive man. Maybe it is all a lie."

So I pray for faith. We all have doubts. The difference between a Christian and an atheist is that Christians take their doubts back to God. An Atheist allows his doubt to rule him.

 

[Shogun]

Really? If your standard of evidence is so much higher than the average Christians, then you must have some evidence to support your conviction. What evidence do you have regarding the creation of the world? What evidence do you have that explains the spark of life? Surely you have evidence that shows the Bible isn't a truthful or accurate document.

No?

So, once again, it just comes down to faith. The fact that you choose not to believe in God is simply a choice, based upon nothing but your own heart, and as such is no more valid than any bible-thumping nutters choice to believe.

Learn something about astrophysics and get back to me. Maybe some geology for clarification. A little biology beyond genesis. The entire Fossil record. ALL TANGIBLE. ALL superior than your bible thumping and "noahs' flood carved out the grand canyon and just as soon as I find it on mt ararat I'll have something that might actually compete with Striated crust layers in plate tectonics" routine. Belief in scientific principals are no more based on faith than christianity is based on uncontested mythology.

 

[Shogun]

Of course I could, anybody could. Shogun does. It's a very conscious choice on his part.

People who have faith battle with it every day. I have days when I think, "Really, look at all this fascinating stuff about dinosaurs and primitive man. Maybe it is all a lie."

So I pray for faith. We all have doubts. The difference between a Christian and an atheist is that Christians take their doubts back to God. And Atheist allows his doubt to rule him.

indeed. based on the evidence, or, rather, the lack thereof. NO, the difference between a christian and an atheist is that when a christian has doubts he feels comforted by an internal semi-schitzophrenic voice in the head that rationalizes all things according to a personal schema of dogma. Nothing more than a defence mechanism related more to traumatic physical shock than anything even remotely supernatural. Meanwhile, we atheists take into consideration relevant evidence and make a reasoned decision based on reality rather than mythological hoodoo.

 

[AllieBaba]

Learn something about astrophysics and get back to me. Maybe some geology for clarification. A little biology beyond genesis. The entire Fossil record. ALL TANGIBLE. ALL superior than your bible thumping and "noahs' flood carved out the grand canyon and just as soon as I find it on mt ararat I'll have something that might actually compete with Striated crust layers in plate tectonics" routine. Belief in scientific principals are no more based on faith than christianity is based on uncontested mythology.

All tangible, and subject to interpretation.

Read about carbon dating. That was supposed to answer ALL questions about the age of the earth. It turns out to be completely unreliable and vague.

Where's the missing link? Oh yeah, we haven't found it yet.

Worldwide flood? Why, the geological record bears it out.

The effort you spend convincing yourself there is no God and man is the ultimate brain in the universe could be spent on more fruitful endeavors.

All your "evidence" amounts to nothing more than theories, smoke and mirrors. I find it amazing that people will believe in bad science, but can't bring themselves to believe in God.

 

[Ravi]

I really don't think I'm getting my point across accurately. And that's my fault completely. Perhaps if I said "conscious" choice it would be a bit clearer. Or to put it another way, I view faith as somewhat analogous to love. Most people would agree (I think) that one doesn't really get to choose who they fall in love with. You either love a person, or you don't. And similarly, you either have faith or you don't.

But love is somewhat of a biological function and I don't think you can describe faith that way in this instance.

 

[Shogun]

All tangible, and subject to interpretation.

Read about carbon dating. That was supposed to answer ALL questions about the age of the earth. It turns out to be completely unreliable and vague.

Where's the missing link? Oh yeah, we haven't found it yet.

Worldwide flood? Why, the geological record bears it out.

The effort you spend convincing yourself there is no God and man is the ultimate brain in the universe could be spent on more fruitful endeavors.

All your "evidence" amounts to nothing more than theories, smoke and mirrors. I find it amazing that people will believe in bad science, but can't bring themselves to believe in God.

You, baba, are a fucking crackhead. First, carbon dating may not give the specific second, minute, hour, day, year of an event but it's sure as hell more solid than your first book of genesis theory.


MISSING LINK? not too edumacated about evolution, are you baba? Indeed, not ssing an ameoba turn into a fucking 2008 white male before out very eyes probably does invalidate the square ton of a tangible fossil record.


WORLDWIDE FLOOD? no shit. Given that such is EXACTLY the environment that the first cells collected into multi cellular organisms, and the evidence of shifting crustal plates etc, I'm quite sure that there have been periods in the MILLIONS OF YEARS in which the surface didn't look like it does now. Does this suggest that noah put a pair of every animal on board a boat OR that such is what carved out the grand fucking canyon?




no, allie. Again, this is why you get so angry about the purge of ID from the science class. This is why you foam at the mouth when the folio of modern knowledge puts your dogma infused junk wannabe science on par with cryptozoology and alien sightings. It's why fundies giving tours of national museums are such a laughing stock.

Like i said.. go learn a few things beyond what charasmatic thumper is selling the latest miracle hootch.

 

[AllieBaba]

You, baba, are a fucking crackhead. First, carbon dating may not give the specific second, minute, hour, day, year of an event but it's sure as hell more solid than your first book of genesis theory.


MISSING LINK? not too edumacated about evolution, are you baba? Indeed, not ssing an ameoba turn into a fucking 2008 white male before out very eyes probably does invalidate the square ton of a tangible fossil record.


WORLDWIDE FLOOD? no shit. Given that such is EXACTLY the environment that the first cells collected into multi cellular organisms, and the evidence of shifting crustal plates etc, I'm quite sure that there have been periods in the MILLIONS OF YEARS in which the surface didn't look like it does now. Does this suggest that noah put a pair of every animal on board a boat OR that such is what carved out the grand fucking canyon?




no, allie. Again, this is why you get so angry about the purge of ID from the science class. This is why you foam at the mouth when the folio of modern knowledge puts your dogma infused junk wannabe science on par with cryptozoology and alien sightings. It's why fundies giving tours of national museums are such a laughing stock.

Like i said.. go learn a few things beyond what charasmatic thumper is selling the latest miracle hootch.

I'll just step aside and allow your descent into madness to continue unhindered.

 

[manifold]

But love is somewhat of a biological function and I don't think you can describe faith that way in this instance.

eh, whatever. I don't really have a strong opinion I just think it's kind of an interesting question.

I am having fun watching those other two donkeys duke it out though. They both claim it's a choice yet they argue vehemently in favor of their own "certainty." Ironic and quite entertaining.


btw: You were both right and wrong... about something eelse.

 

[Ravi]

If you don't have a strong opinion why did you call me dense?

btw--don't leave me hanging???

 

[AllieBaba]

eh, whatever. I don't really have a strong opinion I just think it's kind of an interesting question.

I am having fun watching those other two donkeys duke it out though. They both claim it's a choice yet they argue vehemently in favor of their own "certainty." Ironic and quite entertaining.


btw: You were both right and wrong... about something eelse.

The difference being, I don't call atheists names and go around spouting that they're stupid for believing as they do. I simply point out that whether you're an atheist or a Christian, it remains a choice and science isn't on either side.

 

[Shogun]

I'll just step aside and allow your descent into madness to continue unhindered.

well, it certainly beats having to scrape together thumper "evidence" to compete with what I've listed...

 

[AllieBaba]

You're a complete loon.

 

[Shogun]

eh, whatever. I don't really have a strong opinion I just think it's kind of an interesting question.

I am having fun watching those other two donkeys duke it out though. They both claim it's a choice yet they argue vehemently in favor of their own "certainty." Ironic and quite entertaining.


btw: You were both right and wrong... about something eelse.

meh.. you are no micheal buffer or ringside ref.

If baba had anything even remotely close to offer in the evidence catagory then I'd get to make a different choice based on updated info.. Now, ask baba if she allows the same room for the possibility of error in her beliefs. THAT, sir, is the difference between she and I and is exactly why your post is more banefully cryptic than insightful.

 

[Shogun]

You're a complete loon.

indeed, I hear calling people names and burning them at the stake works alot better than having to wrap your mind around a non-flat earth.

 

[manifold]

...and is exactly why your post is more banefully cryptic than insightful.

One man's insight is another man's baneful crypticism.*




*Copyright manifold 2008.

 

[AllieBaba]

indeed, I hear calling people names and burning them at the stake works alot better than having to wrap your mind around a non-flat earth.

Loon is actually a term of endearment.

 

[Shogun]

Loon is actually a term of endearment.

and fire was once considered a gift. things change.

 

[manifold]

and fire was once considered a gift. things change.

A gift from Prometheus no less!

 

[AllieBaba]

Fire is still a wonderful thing.

I have to go home to stoke mine right now lest my home freeze and we be without water.

 

[Shogun]

Fire is still a wonderful thing.

I have to go home to stoke mine right now lest my home freeze and we be without water.

you can always throw on another witch.. I hear they keep a house nice a toasty.