Is "eis" a religion???

[Foxfyre]

So the British took it from the Arabs...

Muslim but not Arab. The Ottoman Empire was mostly Turkish.

And, of course, the Ottomans acquired Israel by defeated the Mamluks, who in turn acquired it from . . . wait for it . . . Christians. The Christians moved in during the reign of the Roman Empire, which in turn acquired the territory by conquest.

Yup. You can trace any people you want to find on the planet, and you'll find it very difficult to find any who didn't displace somebody else when they carved out their niche in the world and very few nations exist that didn't have to fight or deal with the population already there in order to become a nation.

To accuse the Israelis of unfairly displacing others and not equally condemning every other people who have ever displaced somebody smacks of Antisemitism, pure and simple.

 

[Biggles]

Whenever I see a sticker on a car, it helps me identify them as a liberal. I have noticed that the folks I personal know who have these stickers are usually non-religious, thus they have no flippin knowledge about what they are "saying".

Funny how they equate the religions as equal, and needing to co-exist. In truth, most religions to get along...only the Muslim Islam Extremists cause harm.

I have no issues with any person's belief's. I get along with all...love the sinner, not the sin.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Muslim but not Arab. The Ottoman Empire was mostly Turkish.

And, of course, the Ottomans acquired Israel by defeated the Mamluks, who in turn acquired it from . . . wait for it . . . Christians. The Christians moved in during the reign of the Roman Empire, which in turn acquired the territory by conquest.

Yup. You can trace any people you want to find on the planet, and you'll find it very difficult to find any who didn't displace somebody else when they carved out their niche in the world and very few nations exist that didn't have to fight or deal with the population already there in order to become a nation.

To accuse the Israelis of unfairly displacing others and not equally condemning every other people who have ever displaced somebody smacks of Antisemitism, pure and simple.

And the Israelis, unlike all the other groups so far mentioned here, are at least a group that has been represented in that area from the get-go.

 

[Foxfyre]

And, of course, the Ottomans acquired Israel by defeated the Mamluks, who in turn acquired it from . . . wait for it . . . Christians. The Christians moved in during the reign of the Roman Empire, which in turn acquired the territory by conquest.

Yup. You can trace any people you want to find on the planet, and you'll find it very difficult to find any who didn't displace somebody else when they carved out their niche in the world and very few nations exist that didn't have to fight or deal with the population already there in order to become a nation.

To accuse the Israelis of unfairly displacing others and not equally condemning every other people who have ever displaced somebody smacks of Antisemitism, pure and simple.

And the Israelis, unlike all the other groups so far mentioned here, are at least a group that has been represented in that area from the get-go.

Yes, they can trace their history in that area at least for three to four thousand years. So if longegivity is the guide that determines who gets to live there, they have as good a claim as anybody else.

 

[JBeukema]

the Israelis, unlike all the other groups so far mentioned here, are at least a group that has been represented in that area from the get-go.

You mark the get-go with the Jewish invasion and the genocides committed by the Jews as they conquered the region?

Or with the concentration of Jews in the region after attempts to wipe them out in Europe and North America failed?

 

[amrchaos]

Actually, it is possible that (ancient)Israel existed as a client state to the Egyptians. One that existed as a reward for egyptian slaves and a buffer against invading Asian empires.

This is just an unfounded assumption about why a weak backwater state such as Israel could exist next to an ancient super power such as Egypt and not have any invasions or declarations made onto them. I can guess there existed some type of understanding between them.

 

[amrchaos]

The person that told me I was being pro-Israeli is going to be pro-Palestinian for a moment?

I guess you are right--maybe I should have referred to it as an Ironic stance

Because there is some hypocrisy to use BS Propaganda to refute BS Propaganda!



PS. This concept "coexist" can occur in secular nations. There is no reason for a theocractic or "religion based" nation to allow it except for some political reasons.

 

[Foxfyre]

the Israelis, unlike all the other groups so far mentioned here, are at least a group that has been represented in that area from the get-go.

You mark the get-go with the Jewish invasion and the genocides committed by the Jews as they conquered the region?

Or with the concentration of Jews in the region after attempts to wipe them out in Europe and North America failed?

If you are going to condemn the Jews for any 'genocides' committed in the history of that region, I trust you are open minded and fair enough to condemn all the other groups in that region, none of which can claim guiltless ancestry on that score? If you insist on blaming modern peoples for their past cultures, it is only reasonable to blame all modern peoples for their past cultures.

The Jews weren't all that successful in obliterating their enemies either despite Old Testament accounts.

 

[JBeukema]

If you are going to condemn the Jews for any 'genocides' committed in the history of that region, I trust you are open minded and fair enough to condemn all the other groups in that region, none of which can claim guiltless ancestry on that score? If you insist on blaming modern peoples for their past cultures, it is only reasonable to blame all modern peoples for their past cultures.

The Jews always bitch about Hitler and want people to feel bad for them. 'No business like Shoah business'- they even use it to justify displacing the Arabs in the are they were given in order t get them out of Europe.

The Jews are a very hypocritical race.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you are going to condemn the Jews for any 'genocides' committed in the history of that region, I trust you are open minded and fair enough to condemn all the other groups in that region, none of which can claim guiltless ancestry on that score? If you insist on blaming modern peoples for their past cultures, it is only reasonable to blame all modern peoples for their past cultures.

The Jews always bitch about Hitler and want people to feel bad for them. 'No business like Shoah business'- they even use it to justify displacing the Arabs in the are they were given in order t get them out of Europe.

The Jews are a very hypocritical race.

If you are not a Jew within the Jewish community, I doubt seriously you have any clue what the Jews want or why. I have a number of Jewish friends and I have never heard one even suggest people should 'feel bad' for them because of Hitler. The Jews historically have never been welcome anywhere they have gone. That was not because they were bad people, but mostly because they were different, practiced a religion that looked 'wierd' to others, and they were culturally an intelligent and prosperous people. The Holocaust was a kind of last straw among a long string of atrocities, prejudice, bigotry, genocide, restriction of human rights, etc. committed against the Jews.

It is for that reason that I, a non Jew, can understand why the Jews at long last would want one tiny plot of ground on Earth where they can be the people they want to be, where they can make their own rules and own laws, and live as they choose. I can understand why they need to retain a substantial majority in that land because if they do not, all that will be taken away from them yet again. And there are enemies all around them who will commit genocide against them again the minute they think they are strong enough and/or can get away with it.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why others cannot understand what Israel is and why it deserves to exist. I don't understand the kind of hatred and intolerance for the Jews alone that prompts people to accuse and at the same time be blind to all the injustices that have been committed against them.

 

[JBeukema]

The Jews historically have never been welcome anywhere they have gone. That was not because they were bad people

It's because they're racists who have a history of committing genocide and who advocate doing it again as soon as they have the ability. The Jewish religion is based in racism and the concept of the Semitic Jews as a superior race chosen by YHWH to rule the land. The other races can't be 'saved' or brought to equality or to God; they could only be slain, man woman and child, to purify Canaan and prepare the land for the rule of the superior Jewish people under YHWH's laws.

Have you read their holy book? They are despised for their ethnocentrism, racism, and self-importance and they are unwelcome everywhere they go for the same reason the Klan or the neonazis are.


Why did you think they hated Jesus so much? A big part of it was his teaching [not present early in his ministry, but developing as he dealt with the Jewish people and came to learn their nature] that a gentile who is saved can be equal in God's eyes as a Jew.

. The Holocaust was a kind of last straw among a long string of atrocities,

Oh, boo-hoo. Tell it to the Ammonites, the Hittites, the Jesubites- all genocides the Jews are still proud of and still say are just and good because their god told them to commit them. There is othing so hypocritical as a Jew who complains about being on the other side of the equation.

It is for that reason that I, a non Jew, can understand why the Jews at long last would want one tiny plot of ground on Earth where they can be the people they want to be, where they can make their own rules and own laws, and live as they choose.

They had it. They took it from the locals after smashing the children's heads against the rocks and killing even the cattle [or have you not read their holy books?]

I can understand why they need to retain a substantial majority in that land because if they do not, all that will be taken away from them yet again.

Yep, because all the barbarian hordes of gentiles can't be trusted

You're spewing the same bullshit as Bass when he talks about getting all the blacks together and taking anther stab a t the whole Liberia thing or WilliamJoyce when he talks about creating a separate Aryan state.

And there are enemies all around them who will commit genocide against them again the minute they think they are strong enough and/or can get away with it.

Yep... can''t trust all those lesser races- god declared them the superior race and his chosen people, but those evil barbarians will destroy them if not kept in check

 

[Foxfyre]

JB, bless your pea picking heart, that might be the biggest bunch of malarky you've posted yet.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Light, you just took one idea and turned it into Pro-Israeli propaganda.

Well, I am going to take a sarcastic tone while taking up the Palestianian cause for a moment here.

If the Jews and the Christians can "coexist" and practice "coexistance" so damn well, then carve some land out of a Christian country and give it to the Jews! That is right--and oh, make it so that JEWS are shooting the CHRISTIANS for the land the CHRISTIANS are currently living on in that region!

Whose land do you think it was before it became the current naton of Israel, dumbass? It was owned by THE BRITISH! And the Jews have lived there since earliest recorded history, even when conquered and ruled by other people. God, get over the anti-Semitism and crack a frigging book.

I read a book


the Jews' own book, actually


it wasn't their land until they raped and murdered all the native peoples (the Moabites, the Jusubites, the Hittites, the Ammonites...) and took the land

Get over the Zionist brainwashing and read some books your damned self

You didn't read the whole book. Read Genesis 1:1 and you will find out who was there first. And if G-d created it then is he not free to give it to whomsoever he chooses?

And no, the never raped the -ites. That is unique to Islam.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Oh, boo-hoo. Tell it to the Ammonites, the Hittites, the Jesubites- all genocides the Jews are still proud of and still say are just and good because their god told them to commit them. There is othing so hypocritical as a Jew who complains about being on the other side of the equation.

Has anyone explained torture, starvation, and murder to you?

Yep... can''t trust all those lesser races- god declared them the superior race and his chosen people, but those evil barbarians will destroy them if not kept in check

G-d never said there were different races. That is an evolution thing.

We are all the same race. We all came from Adam.

The Jews were and are G-d's chosen people because he found a person who was willing to trust in him. But when G-d sent his Son to die on a cross he grafted the wild olive branch in, giving us gentiles the access to be saved.

The choice sits before you JB, just as it does for everyone. Will you choose Jesus as your Saviour?

 

[JBeukema]

You didn't read the whole book. Read Genesis 1:1 and you will find out who was there first

Two people with no nationality or term for their kind, who were members simply of Humanity?

Are you claiming that Eden = The Occupied West Bank?

And no, the never raped the -ites.

The book says differently. They even had rules about shaving their heads first and only raping virgins- women were slaughtered, as they only wanted the little girls.

 

[JBeukema]

The choice sits before you JB, just as it does for everyone. Will you choose Jesus as your Saviour?

Saviour? Look, I appreciate the cheap lettuce, but he and Juan both need to get back to work before I call ICE.

 

[Cecilie1200]

the Israelis, unlike all the other groups so far mentioned here, are at least a group that has been represented in that area from the get-go.

You mark the get-go with the Jewish invasion and the genocides committed by the Jews as they conquered the region?

Or with the concentration of Jews in the region after attempts to wipe them out in Europe and North America failed?

Since 1) I have already established that conquest is a legitimate means of acquiring land and nation-building, the most common throughout human history, in fact, and 2) the people the Bible says were conquered no longer exist at all, yup. Primitive times were harsh and ugly, and unlike some, I'm not stupid and naive enough to try to apply modern-day sensibilities and priorities to them. You want to hate the Jews for something you refuse to hate in anyone else, even people who do it right now, in a time when modern-day sensibilities would be entirely appropriate, which makes you a bigot and a hypocrite, either of which makes you beneath my notice.

 

[JBeukema]

conquest is a legitimate means of acquiring land and nation-building

I'll send copies of your treatise to all the native americans, jews, and the victims of Japans imperialist expansion.

makes you a bigot and a hypocrite, either of which makes you beneath my notice.

http:

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What's wrong with the concept of Coexist? Coexistence doesn't mean any of the parties have to change their beliefs or even particularly like each other, just accept their differences enough to live side by side without killing each other. Novel and idealistic concept, I know. But you have to start somewhere.

Islam would have to change. it core tenet is the destruction of all un islamic ideas. its what the blowing shit up and killing people is all about the eradication of un islamic ideas.

 

[Foxfyre]

What's wrong with the concept of Coexist? Coexistence doesn't mean any of the parties have to change their beliefs or even particularly like each other, just accept their differences enough to live side by side without killing each other. Novel and idealistic concept, I know. But you have to start somewhere.

Islam would have to change. it core tenet is the destruction of all un islamic ideas. its what the blowing shit up and killing people is all about the eradication of un islamic ideas.

And that is the core problem with Islam. You cannot find anywhere in the Qu'ran that supports religious tolerance or acceptance. At least the Christian holy book admonishes its advocates to not be like 'others' but to live their lives in a way that others will WANT to emulate it. You certainly don't find any texts that suggest that 'infidels' should be put to death. In the Qu'ran you do:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.

2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

2:244 Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower.

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.

(the Qu'ran)

Those who have researched the social dynamics have come to the conclusion that Muslims as a small minority generally are good neighbors and live peacefully where they are. But as their numbers increase, they become more insistent and strident that their ways, their religion, their customs be accommodated and respected. And in large enough numbers to take power, they demand that others follow the tenets of Islam or stay completely out of sight with no rights of their own. And it is no sin in Islam to kill an infidel.

That is why COEXIST is a pipe dream of monumental proportions. Until Islam rejects those violent parts of its belief system just as the Jews and many other faiths did thousands of years ago, there will be no peaceful coexistance with a strong Islam.