Is Education The Basis of Leftist Thought?

Discussion in 'History' started by PoliticalChic, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    A number of posts say that the Right is anti-education, that those on the Right are dumb, and their postitions are based on ignorance...

    One of our board-buds, when asked why so many Americans disagree with his Left-wing position, "Simple answer: Because those individuals are just not smart people."

    And, from another "Now intelligence is a negative in the minds of conservatives. "

    And, another: "Bolton is waving the old con flag, "Ignorance is good".

    OK, simply boilerplate sophomoric argument from the Left....or is it?

    I contend that the Enlightenment, and the French Revolution, with it's stated attempt to replace 'superstition and religion' with the rule of 'reason' has actually given many folks the idea tha the amorphous term 'education' is a priori, worthy of approval.

    And, therefore, the oppoite is opprobrium.

    Here is a lesson from history that may mitigate their view...

    1. More details are emerging about Humam al-Balawi, the man who blew up seven intelligence agents in Afghanistan. By education and professional status, the Jordanian doctor is typical of recent suicidal attackers. The man accused of trying to blow up a plane on Christmas Day is a Nigerian graduate of the University of London. In the Fort Hood shootings, a Palestinian-American psychiatrist in the U.S. Army has been charged.
    Humam al-Balawi was said to be carrying information about Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's number two, himself a surgeon who was born to a prominent Egyptian family.
    Mohamed Atta of 9/11, who was an Egyptian urban planner who had been working in Germany - these are not the wretched of the earth. What essentially is the grievance that draws them to al-Qaida?
    Groups Recruiting Well-Educated Terrorists : NPR

    2. A recent study at Princeton University by Alan Krueger and Jitka Maleckova, called "Education, Poverty, Political Violence and Terrorism: Is There a Causal Connection?" argues this point. One piece of the Krueger-Maleckova evidence involves 129 members of Hezbollah who died in action, mostly against Israel, from 1982 to 1994. Hezbollah is now designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization. Biographical information from the Hezbollah newspaper al-Ahd indicates that the fighters who died were, on average, more educated and less impoverished than the Lebanese population of comparable age and regional origin….Moreover, the Palestinians' adherence to the view that the mass murder of civilians was not terrorism was independent of education and higher among those working than unemployed. Hence, support for terrorism was not reduced by increases in education and income….a study by Charles Russell and Bowman Miller (reprinted in the 1983 book Perspectives on Terrorism) considered 18 revolutionary groups, including the Japanese Red Army, Germany's Baader-Meinhof Gang, and Italy's Red Brigades. The authors found that "the vast majority of those individuals involved in terrorist activities as cadres or leaders is quite well-educated. In fact, approximately two-thirds of those identified terrorists are persons with some university training, [and] well over two-thirds of these individuals came from the middle or upper classes in their respective nations or areas." BW Online | June 10, 2002 | The Myth That Poverty Breeds Terrorism
    http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/terrorism2.pdf

    3. …men who belonged to violent Islamist groups active over the past few decades (some in jail, some not). Had those groups reflected the working-age populations of their countries, engineers would have made up about 3.5 percent of the membership. Instead, nearly 20 percent of the militants had engineering degrees. When Gambetta and Hertog looked at only the militants whose education was known for certain to have gone beyond high school, close to half (44 percent) had trained in engineering.
    Today's Highly Educated Terrorists | The National Interest Blog

    4. Pol Pot, was the leader of the Cambodian communist movement known as the Khmer Rouge[3] and was Prime Minister of Democratic Kampuchea from 1976–1979. Pol Pot's leadership, in which he attempted to "cleanse" the country, resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1.7–2.5 million people…. he qualified for a scholarship that allowed for technical study in France. He studied radio electronics at the EFR in Paris from 1949 to 1953 Pol Pot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    5. Khmer Rouge leader Khieu Samphan, who had studied in Paris, wrote in his doctoral dissertation that the Cambodian economy and social structure would be renewed by tapping “the dormant energy of the peasant mass” against the cities. “Kissinger, “The White House Years,” p. 518.

    6. Ernesto "Che" Guevara "the man was a mass killer. Hundreds were reportedly executed on his watch" Why Do people love a mass murder like Che? // Current
    As a young boy growing up, he had a passion for education, literature and philosophy. Mao Zedong
    "he worked as a doctor. Che Guevara : Biography

    7. Lenin was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, April 22, 1870….In 1891 he passed the law examinations at the University of St. Petersburg as an external student, scoring first in his class. He practiced law briefly in Samara before devoting himself to the revolutionary movement. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin), 1870-1924

    8. Bashar al-Assad is the President of the Syrian Arab Republic, Regional Secretary of the Ba'ath Party, and the son of former President Hafez al-Assad. Al-Assad is a controversial figure both in Syria and Internationally… for his disregard for human rights, economic lapses, sponsorship of terrorism, and corruption. Bashar studied ophthalmology at Damascus University 1988 and arrived in London in 1992 to continue his studies. Bashar al-Assad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Highly educated Leftists, smart guys all....



    So, I'm wondering if our friends on the Left would like to claim any of these highly educated folks as their heros?

    You know, unlike the "amiable dunce, Ronald Reagan"...the guy who won the Cold War.
    Could be the Left is wrong about what constitutes 'smart,' huh?
     
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  2. rikules
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    rikules fighting thugs and cons

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    "A number of posts say that the Right is anti-education, that those on the Right are dumb, and their postitions are based on ignorance..."

    the right certainly SEEMS TO BE anti-PUBLIC education.

    it would be assinine to say that they are ANTI-EDUCATION.

    I have no doubt that they would love to see public education destroyed and everyones' children sent to christian schools or private schools that have a conservative agenda

    as for "those on the Right are dumb"

    1. you'll never be able to convince me that SOME OF THOSE (MANY of those) on the right are NOT dumb. Saying, repeatedly, idiotic things like "gay marriage will DESTROY the institution of marriage" is pretty dumb.

    2. and for every one leftist who says "right wingers are dumb" I'll find you a conservative saying "liberals are stupid"

    so....
    is it ok for right wingers/conservatives to say "liberals are stupid" but it's BAD for liberals to say it about conservatives?

    and...
    "and their postitions are based on ignorance..."


    1. I believe much of what right wingers believe IS based on ignorance;
    "gay marriage will DESTROY the institution of marriage"

    now THAT is ignorant

    2. conservatives, besides stating that liberals are dumb ALSO say "liberals are ignorant"

    so far...

    you have managed to accuse liberals/leftists of the same crimes that conservatives/right wingers commit

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    "One of our board-buds, when asked why so many Americans disagree with his Left-wing position, "Simple answer: Because those individuals are just not smart people."

    And, from another "Now intelligence is a negative in the minds of conservatives. "


    "OK, simply boilerplate sophomoric argument from the Left."

    just like the boilerplate sophomoric arguments from the right
    (do you approve of sophomoric boilerplate arguments from the right?)
    (when conservatives say "liberals are stupid and ignorant" do you agree?)

    ------------------

    "Highly educated Leftists, smart guys all...."

    I am always amazed that a seemingly intelligent person like yourself can so carefully include HALF THE FACTS while just as carefully EXCLUDING half the facts


    there are plenty of highly intelligent and well educated conservatives who use boilerplate sophomoric arguments to condone their agenda

    hitler had thousands of highly educated people who would use boilerplate sophomoric arguments to prove that aryan germans were superior and everyone else was subhuman

    some of our smartest, best educated people in America are onthe conservative team and use boilerplate sophomoric arguments to promote their agenda....."liberals bad.....gay marriage will destroy the institution of marriage....liberals hate god...liberals hate christians..."

    ------------------
    "?So, I'm wondering if our friends on the Left would like to claim any of these highly educated folks as their heros?"


    some of your friends on the left probably do.

    I don't.

    but many of your friends on the right have limbaugh (both of them) and coulter and savage as HEROES......and THOSE guys use boilerplate sophomoric arguments to promote hate and division....

    that is why we have so many threads on this board, started by conservatives, with themes like; liberals are stupid, liberals hate America, liberals hate god




    -------------------

    I note;


    People are most conservative on issues that they know most about. --Ann Coulter


    ann coulter...the women who wishes more liberals had died in new york on 9/11


    is she a hero of yours?
     
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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  3. rikules
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    rikules fighting thugs and cons

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    I just read your comment to me and I want you to know that I have the greatest respect for you

    besides being intelligent and polite you ALWAYS post very good and thoughtful pieces

    and you NEVER engage in abuse or personal attacks!

    If more conservatives were like you I'd join your club!
     
  4. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    Reagan did not win the cold war.

    He was there when it ended but it was not his doing
     
  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Rik- we want you! At the next meeting of the conservatives, I'm going to mention your post!

    Seriously- that was so very nice of you. Made my day.
     
  6. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Ms. Truthie, it is more than ironic that in the year 2011 you still view Mikhail Gorbachev's words as gospel....

    1. Liberal opinion makers in America were unhappy with the close of the Cold War. They were quick to deny that anyone had won. The theme was sounded by Mikhail Gorbachev, who spoke at the site of Winston Churchill’s legendary Iron Curtain speech, Fulton, Missouri. Hoping to put the best face on the loss after five decades, he claimed it was a mistake to speak of “winners and losers” in the Cold War, but rather we should speak of “shattering the vicious circle into which we had driven ourselves.”

    a. To believe that, one would have to imagine that there was no one who had actual control during the conflict. In fact, the entire misunderstanding was based on the West’s mistaken belief, Gorbachev insisted, that Stalin had any intent or even capacity, to expand communist hegemony beyond Eastern Europe.
    From "Useful Idiots," by Mona Charen.

    So, is that what you still believe, that Stalin never had any intent or even capacity, to expand communist hegemony beyond Eastern Europe?

    No, well than we agree. Contrary to the liberal opinion makers, by stopping the Soviet Communists, President Reagan saved the world.


    2. SO ON WHOM or what do we bestow the title of the "evil empire's" killer? Was it Mikhail Gorbachev himself who pulled down what Lenin and Stalin had built up? It is tempting to finger Gorbachev, but this would ascribe too much wisdom and foresight to a man who wanted merely to reform, but not to relinquish, the empire. At no point, however, did Gorbachev want to yield Moscow's pride of place as the number two superpower. And he was blissfully confident that the risks were tolerable: "There is no reason to fear the collapse or the end of socialism", Gorbachev assured Romanian leader Nicolae Ceausescu three weeks after the Berlin Wall had been breached and three weeks before the Romanian dictator was executed by his own people.

    Reagan was made from far sterner stuff than was his Soviet counterpart. His genial grin and wise-cracking demeanor concealed a spine of steel when push came to shove. Yet at their next meeting in Reykjavik in 1986, where Gorbachev would not budge on the "Star Wars" question, Reagan was decisive and unforgiving. He recalls in An American Life how he stood up from the table to proclaim that the meeting was over. Then he turned to his Secretary of State: "Let's go, George. We're leaving." Like any good diplomat, Shultz was crushed by so much roughness, but Reagan was completely unfazed. Later on, he explained: "I went to Reykjavik determined that everything was negotiable except two things, our freedom and our future."
    The "amazing and mysterious" life of Ronald Reagan - page 6
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  7. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    rdean is asinine? Nice to see we agree on something.

    Or, just possibly, they want to see it improved by giving everyone a choice. There are many "liberal" private schools out there that focus on science and math, and even some that are taught by Buddhists.

    Just curious. On the scale of stupidity do you rate that higher or lower than worrying about Guam capsizing?

    And, for every example of dumb on one side, I can show dumber on the other.

    I think it is bad for either side to say it, but some people on both sides are stupid, and they should be informed of it.

    More ignorant than insisting that Christians are conservative Republicans?

    Some are so ignorant that it hurts to read their posts.

    Do you have an actual point, or did you feel an overwhelming need to whine about the world not being fair when you woke up this morning?

    Just whining, got it.

    The point being made is the general arrogance of liberals. I can show you study after study that leaps to the conclusion that liberals are smarter than conservatives, and that being liberal is more evolutionary positive than being conservative. When others try to point out the statistical impossibility of there being no conservatives in social sciences, and the inevitable bias that results from the lack of diversity, they are ostracized.

    Is it boilerplate? Or is your own bias making you see it as as such? Just like their bias is making what the liberals say seem to be boilerplate. Could it be that what both sides are saying is actually true?

    Wouldn't your boilerplate here require that the people who are claiming Limbaugh and Coulter be highly educated? Did that little assumption you just made escape you?

    You are the one quoting her.
     
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  8. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    The fact that you posted this in a thread where comments were made about willful ignorance leaves me speechless.
     
  9. Old Rocks
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    The present Conservative postitions on science, education, and greed cannot but lead to the conclusion that these people are willfully ignorant, and almost completely amoral.
     
  10. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    What are the present conservative positions on science, education, and greed? How do any of those positions make them any more ignoarant than you?
     

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