Is education a right or a privilege?

[goldcatt]

As if level matters? I can't believe you just said that to me gold. Yes, level matters when it comes to the Constitution. I don't believe that funding and dictating education is one of the enumerated powers of Congress. As such, I believe the issue falls under the auspices of the X Amendment.

I am all for home schooling or private school. I am all for local parents forming small groups, and teaching their children together. I am all for kids attending schools at their respective place of worship, when available.

You want the same government that lies, cheats, and steals from us, that refuses to not spend more than they take in, to have care, custody, and control of your precious big people wannabes for 8 hrs a day, teaching them all the one mouth fits all donut factory method?

Government is government, BGG. Frankly, where I live right now I trust the Feds far more than the corrupt slimepuppies in Harrisburg. At least in DC, somebody's watching them.
And no, I don't believe there is anything prohibiting the Federal government from setting standards to ensure all its citizens (who are able) acheive a certain level of literacy, of computational skills, of history and civics and science. Call it common defense, call it commerce, call it whatever you like - the majority of the enumerated powers of the Federal government rely on an educated populace for their strength.
We are also not in a largely agrarian late-18th Century society anymore with mostly local economies. The education level in one State will affect others. So if, for example, North Dakota were to decide not to offer public schools or require compulsory education anymore, the effect won't only be felt in North Dakota. It will be felt wherever people from that environment relocate or attempt to do business.
Not every family is lucky enough to have a homemaker with the time and ability to teach the kids at home, nor can most families afford private schooling. If the government wants a modern military, a modern economy, etc. it needs to offer the services to allow people to participate. And I would have no problems with the States doing the majority of it, but there would have to be some enforceable standard of achievement that is uniform to avoid one or more States' race to the bottom affecting the rest.
OK, that's a novel. Sorry!

That is more than you usually opine to me. lol Nothing wrong with that. Your retort amounts to sidestepping and rationalization gold. You rationalized your jump right over the enumerated powers aspect and you and I both know it. Come on. You can do better than that.

When it comes to the governance of this Republic, filing an emotional brief is not going to get it done in BGG court.

With all due respect, I know not much I say will win in BGG court so I'm not really trying.

Do I still get ice cream?

Anyway, from a non-originalist's POV it doesn't have to be spelled out. I see it as understood or implied in just about every enumerated power. None of them would be plausible without an educated populace as a point of beginning. Place it under (just about) any enumerated power of the Federal Government and it passes, because it has such a huge impact on that area.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Government is government, BGG. Frankly, where I live right now I trust the Feds far more than the corrupt slimepuppies in Harrisburg. At least in DC, somebody's watching them.
And no, I don't believe there is anything prohibiting the Federal government from setting standards to ensure all its citizens (who are able) acheive a certain level of literacy, of computational skills, of history and civics and science. Call it common defense, call it commerce, call it whatever you like - the majority of the enumerated powers of the Federal government rely on an educated populace for their strength.
We are also not in a largely agrarian late-18th Century society anymore with mostly local economies. The education level in one State will affect others. So if, for example, North Dakota were to decide not to offer public schools or require compulsory education anymore, the effect won't only be felt in North Dakota. It will be felt wherever people from that environment relocate or attempt to do business.
Not every family is lucky enough to have a homemaker with the time and ability to teach the kids at home, nor can most families afford private schooling. If the government wants a modern military, a modern economy, etc. it needs to offer the services to allow people to participate. And I would have no problems with the States doing the majority of it, but there would have to be some enforceable standard of achievement that is uniform to avoid one or more States' race to the bottom affecting the rest.
OK, that's a novel. Sorry!

That is more than you usually opine to me. lol Nothing wrong with that. Your retort amounts to sidestepping and rationalization gold. You rationalized your jump right over the enumerated powers aspect and you and I both know it. Come on. You can do better than that.

When it comes to the governance of this Republic, filing an emotional brief is not going to get it done in BGG court.

With all due respect, I know not much I say will win in BGG court so I'm not really trying.

Do I still get ice cream?

Anyway, from a non-originalist's POV it doesn't have to be spelled out. I see it as understood or implied in just about every enumerated power. None of them would be plausible without an educated populace as a point of beginning. Place it under (just about) any enumerated power of the Federal Government and it passes, because it has such a huge impact on that area.

You can still have ice cream even when you are wrong. I might be stern when it comes to the Constitution, but I am not cruel.

If nothing has to be specific as to the enumerated powers, what is the point of having them in the first place? Using your line of reasoning, the federal government is free to do whatever the heck it wants, if powers don't have to be specifically enumerated, and they can just cram whatever bastardization they want into government slot A. That is what they are doing already. That is one of the reasons why we have a government than Shoney's Big Boy, and can't fit inside the Constitution.

 

[DavidS]

I agree with the 'right' to high school graduation, 18 or 19, whichever comes first. College? Nope, not a right. Can anyone with developed necessary skills earn a bachelor's or higher? Yes.

Why stop at 18? Why, when you graduate high school, do you all of a sudden lose your right for an education -- especially when it's almost REQUIRED to have a college degree to get through the door at any fortune 500 company?

 

[Oddball]

Like they don't already have enough to fail to monitor??

Well one might think that for something as important as education, monitoring is very important.

Indeed...One would think that.

So, what's the track record of those whom you seem to believe should be doing the monitoring?

 

[Dis]

I agree with the 'right' to high school graduation, 18 or 19, whichever comes first. College? Nope, not a right. Can anyone with developed necessary skills earn a bachelor's or higher? Yes.

Why stop at 18? Why, when you graduate high school, do you all of a sudden lose your right for an education -- especially when it's almost REQUIRED to have a college degree to get through the door at any fortune 500 company?

At 18, you want to be considered a legal adult, then you can start taking responsibility for your future, which includes paying for your schooling

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Is education a right or a privilege?

I voted for "priviledge", but I want to be clear.

I do not believe you have a right to an education per say, but I do believe that it is in the best interest of the community that you get one. The better your education, the better the job you can qualify for. When a community has a strong educated work force, it is much easier to attract high paying jobs to a community that require sophisticated skills. The better the jobs in a community, the stronger and healthier a community is. That's why as a homeowner in a community, it is to your advantage to support and demand quality public education, even if you yourself do not have children.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

Education is not a right.

Well according to Virginia's constitution, and the consitutions of many other states, education is a right...

Virginia Constitution Article VIII Section 1:
The General Assembly shall provide for a system of free public elementary and secondary schools for all children of school age throughout the Commonwealth, and shall seek to ensure that an educational program of high quality is established and continually maintained.

A public education should prepare kids to be effective, knowledgeable, and apt individuals for the workplace and for life in general. If our public schools arent doing this then it is a reflection of how poor our public education system maybe. But I think any one wishing to obtain a post secondary education and a level of knowledge beyond basic should have to pay for their education or be given scholarships based on merit by the institution they desire to attend.

 

[chanel]

Hey David - who's going to oay for free college for all. Have you taken a look at the debt clock lately?.

Do you understand that education is dumbed down to the lowest common demoninator? God forbid we kept kids in school til they were 22. Good Lord!

 

[Annie]

I agree with the 'right' to high school graduation, 18 or 19, whichever comes first. College? Nope, not a right. Can anyone with developed necessary skills earn a bachelor's or higher? Yes.

Why stop at 18? Why, when you graduate high school, do you all of a sudden lose your right for an education -- especially when it's almost REQUIRED to have a college degree to get through the door at any fortune 500 company?

Cause if you've done the 'right things' you should be able to accommodate the rest on your own. If not, well no further education for you. Some things we SHOULD copy from EU.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Education is not a right.

Well according to Virginia's constitution, and the consitutions of many other states, education is a right...

Virginia Constitution Article VIII Section 1:
The General Assembly shall provide for a system of free public elementary and secondary schools for all children of school age throughout the Commonwealth, and shall seek to ensure that an educational program of high quality is established and continually maintained.

A public education should prepare kids to be effective, knowledgeable, and apt individuals for the workplace and for life in general. If our public schools arent doing this then it is a reflection of how poor our public education system maybe. But I think any one wishing to obtain a post secondary education and a level of knowledge beyond basic should have to pay for their education or be given scholarships based on merit by the institution they desire to attend.

What you posted is not an example of a right per Virginia's constitution. Enumeration of a power via the legislative branch, is not the same thing as a right.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

Education is not a right.

Well according to Virginia's constitution, and the consitutions of many other states, education is a right...

Virginia Constitution Article VIII Section 1:
The General Assembly shall provide for a system of free public elementary and secondary schools for all children of school age throughout the Commonwealth, and shall seek to ensure that an educational program of high quality is established and continually maintained.

A public education should prepare kids to be effective, knowledgeable, and apt individuals for the workplace and for life in general. If our public schools arent doing this then it is a reflection of how poor our public education system maybe. But I think any one wishing to obtain a post secondary education and a level of knowledge beyond basic should have to pay for their education or be given scholarships based on merit by the institution they desire to attend.

What you posted is not an example of a right per Virginia's constitution. Enumeration of a power via the legislative branch, is not the same thing as a right.

If the commonwealth fails to provide a free and high quality education then the commonwealth's failure is unconstitutional. So all school aged children have a legal right to attend public schools if they so desire.

 

[Kalam]

Is education a right? It most certainly is. Moreover, we're obliged to provide all students with a good education. The discrepancies in quality between schools in poor areas and those in wealthy suburban areas are problems that must be rectified immediately if we're to provide each student with an opportunity to succeed.

"Education then, beyond all other devices of human origin, is the great equalizer of the conditions of men, the balance wheel of the social machinery."