Is Chavez smelling his own "sulfur"?

[Avatar4321]

Hugo was a great guy , though far from perfect . He will always be remembered as the guy who stood up against the American Terrorists and the American Religion for World Domination .
The CIA may have finally got him but he lit the fuse for the underdogs .
Americans hated him because he told the truth about them .

It's amazing what passes for truth nowadays

 

[Avatar4321]

Cons would have preferred that the US go in and kill Chavez and install a right wing regime in Venezuela, like they did with Allende in Chile.

1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They didn't do any such thing in Chile, moron. However, Pinochet was the savior of his people. If it wasn't for him, Chile would have been another Cuba.

Pinochet was a brutal dictator like any other.

Sure is funny how you guys have this selective "love one dictator hate another" thing going on, regularly.

He ruled by terror and he's the bee's knees to you. Funny.

Precisely why we shouldnt be in the business of establishing dictators. We should have a non-interventionist policy as much as possible.

 

[Cowman]

They didn't do any such thing in Chile, moron. However, Pinochet was the savior of his people. If it wasn't for him, Chile would have been another Cuba.

Pinochet was a brutal dictator like any other.

Sure is funny how you guys have this selective "love one dictator hate another" thing going on, regularly.

He ruled by terror and he's the bee's knees to you. Funny.

Precisely why we shouldnt be in the business of establishing dictators. We should have a non-interventionist policy as much as possible.

I agree completely. Maybe long ago in the past I wouldn't have(if I were alive), but we have a proven track record of disaster in that field.

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree completely. Maybe long ago in the past I wouldn't have(if I were alive), but we have a proven track record of disaster in that field.

Im not sure what I would have done in the past either. I've grown since then.

Take the situation with Mubarak in Egypt. I wouldnt have been supporting him. Of course, i likewise wouldnt have been undermining him which has lead to a potentially far worse leader in Morsi. I would have stayed the heck out of it.

Let the Egyptians and other nations work out their own leadership without interfering. We are bad at picking leaders. Look what happened with Iran. look whats happening in Libya.

Our troops and resources shouldnt be used to pick and choose foreign leaders unless there is some iminent threat or interest in doing so. And we sure as heck shouldnt be sending aide to tyrants and dictators.

This world is getting insane. We should be providing sanity not making it more chaotic.

 

[Cowman]

I agree completely. Maybe long ago in the past I wouldn't have(if I were alive), but we have a proven track record of disaster in that field.

Im not sure what I would have done in the past either. I've grown since then.

Take the situation with Mubarak in Egypt. I wouldnt have been supporting him. Of course, i likewise wouldnt have been undermining him which has lead to a potentially far worse leader in Morsi. I would have stayed the heck out of it.

Let the Egyptians and other nations work out their own leadership without interfering. We are bad at picking leaders. Look what happened with Iran. look whats happening in Libya.

Our troops and resources shouldnt be used to pick and choose foreign leaders unless there is some iminent threat or interest in doing so. And we sure as heck shouldnt be sending aide to tyrants and dictators.

This world is getting insane. We should be providing sanity not making it more chaotic.

The world is getting LESS insane. Come on man, you can't look back on history of the world, hundreds, thousands plus years ago and tell me that our world today is more insane than that.

 

[Avatar4321]

The world is getting LESS insane.

The other day someone on a talk show stated that we can end rape by telling men to stop raping women. I have no problem trying to educate people to do good things. But to think that telling someone not to rape you is enough to end rape is absolutely insane.

Oddly, enough People agreed with her.

That is hardly the only thing people have been doing lately. People are constantly acting against their own interest. Sophistry is continually being passed off as wisdom. And every indication I see shows it getting worse.

So respectfully, I disagree with you. The world is getting more insane. And we need to do what we can to stop it.

 

[Cowman]

The world is getting LESS insane.

The other day someone on a talk show stated that we can end rape by telling men to stop raping women. I have no problem trying to educate people to do good things. But to think that telling someone not to rape you is enough to end rape is absolutely insane.

Oddly, enough People agreed with her.

That is hardly the only thing people have been doing lately. People are constantly acting against their own interest. Sophistry is continually being passed off as wisdom. And every indication I see shows it getting worse.

So respectfully, I disagree with you. The world is getting more insane. And we need to do what we can to stop it.

Take some fucking history lessons my friend. The insanity might all be in your head if you think we're more insane today than we were in the medieval ages, the dark ages, etc.

Genocides far outnumbered anything we see today and in recent history. Wars were common for nearly every single nation on earth. Superstition and false knowledge was rampant. People killed others in the name of religion in a far greater scale. Rape rates, murder rates and more were far greater than anything we have today. Entire nations were subjugated. Slavery wasn't an illegal trade in many nations.

I can go on and on and on about how the world of the past was far more fucking insane than today.


Oh but wait. You have a story about someone on a talk show! Case closed.

 

[Avatar4321]

The world is getting LESS insane.

The other day someone on a talk show stated that we can end rape by telling men to stop raping women. I have no problem trying to educate people to do good things. But to think that telling someone not to rape you is enough to end rape is absolutely insane.

Oddly, enough People agreed with her.

That is hardly the only thing people have been doing lately. People are constantly acting against their own interest. Sophistry is continually being passed off as wisdom. And every indication I see shows it getting worse.

So respectfully, I disagree with you. The world is getting more insane. And we need to do what we can to stop it.

Take some fucking history lessons my friend. The insanity might all be in your head if you think we're more insane today than we were in the medieval ages, the dark ages, etc.

Genocides far outnumbered anything we see today and in recent history. Wars were common for nearly every single nation on earth. Superstition and false knowledge was rampant. People killed others in the name of religion in a far greater scale. Rape rates, murder rates and more were far greater than anything we have today. Entire nations were subjugated. Slavery wasn't an illegal trade in many nations.

I can go on and on and on about how the world of the past was far more fucking insane than today.


Oh but wait. You have a story about someone on a talk show! Case closed.

Are you paying any attention to what's going on? Because all of those problems you think we have solved are still going on. And what's worse, even we are heading in the direction to joining them.

 

[Cowman]

The other day someone on a talk show stated that we can end rape by telling men to stop raping women. I have no problem trying to educate people to do good things. But to think that telling someone not to rape you is enough to end rape is absolutely insane.

Oddly, enough People agreed with her.

That is hardly the only thing people have been doing lately. People are constantly acting against their own interest. Sophistry is continually being passed off as wisdom. And every indication I see shows it getting worse.

So respectfully, I disagree with you. The world is getting more insane. And we need to do what we can to stop it.

Take some fucking history lessons my friend. The insanity might all be in your head if you think we're more insane today than we were in the medieval ages, the dark ages, etc.

Genocides far outnumbered anything we see today and in recent history. Wars were common for nearly every single nation on earth. Superstition and false knowledge was rampant. People killed others in the name of religion in a far greater scale. Rape rates, murder rates and more were far greater than anything we have today. Entire nations were subjugated. Slavery wasn't an illegal trade in many nations.

I can go on and on and on about how the world of the past was far more fucking insane than today.


Oh but wait. You have a story about someone on a talk show! Case closed.

Are you paying any attention to what's going on? Because all of those problems you think we have solved are still going on. And what's worse, even we are heading in the direction to joining them.

No shit many are still going on, but there's nowhere near on the same scale as they once were. Not even sure you read my post if you couldn't see that's what I was saying.

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong on this, in my opinion. Best fucking time in the history of mankind to live in, is now. Today. Past history is brutal compared to today, factoring in all the elements.

 

[Political Junky]

Cons would have preferred that the US go in and kill Chavez and install a right wing regime in Venezuela, like they did with Allende in Chile.

1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They didn't do any such thing in Chile, moron. However, Pinochet was the savior of his people. If it wasn't for him, Chile would have been another Cuba.

Augusto Pinochet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secret bank accounts, tax evasion and arms deal

Documentation of some of Pinochet's many United States bank accounts.
In 2004, a United States Senate money laundering investigation led by Senators Carl Levin (D-MI) and Norm Coleman (R-MN)—ordered in the wake of the 11 September 2001 attacks—uncovered a network of over 125 securities and bank accounts at Riggs Bank and other U.S. financial institutions used by Pinochet and his associates for twenty-five years to secretly move millions of dollars.[84] Though the subcommittee was charged only with investigating compliance of financial institutions under the USA PATRIOT Act, and not the Pinochet regime, Senator Coleman noted:
This is a sad, sordid tale of money laundering involving Pinochet accounts at multiple financial institutions using alias names, offshore accounts, and close associates. As a former General and President of Chile, Pinochet was a well-known human rights violator and violent dictator.[84]
Over several months in 2005, Chilean judge Sergio Muñoz indicted Augusto Pinochet's wife, Lucia Hiriart; four of his children — Marco Antonio, Jacqueline, Veronica and Lucia Pinochet; his personal secretary, Monica Ananias; and his former aide Oscar Aitken on tax evasion and falsification charges stemming from the Riggs Bank investigation. In January 2006, daughter Lucia Pinochet was detained at Washington DC-Dulles airport and subsequently deported while attempting to evade the tax charges in Chile.[85] In January 2007, the Santiago Court of Appeals revoked most of the indictment from Judge Carlos Cerda against the Pinochet family.[86] But Pinochet's five children, his wife and 17 other persons (including two generals, one of his former lawyer and former secretary) were arrested in October 2007 on charges of embezzlement and use of false passports. They are accused of having illegally transferred $27m (£13.2m) to foreign bank accounts during Pinochet's rule.[87][88]
In September 2005, a joint investigation by The Guardian and La Tercera revealed that the British arms firm BAE Systems had been identified as paying more than £1m to Pinochet, through a front company in the British Virgin Islands, which BAE has used to channel commission on arms deals.[89] The payments began in 1997 and lasted until 2004.[89][90]
Furthermore, in 2007, fifteen years of investigation led to the conclusion that the 1992 assassination of DINA Colonel Gerardo Huber was most probably related to various illegal arms traffic carried out, after Pinochet's resignation from power, by military circles very close to himself.[13] Huber had been assassinated a short time before he was due to testify in the case concerning the 1991 illegal export of weapons to Croatian army. The deal involved 370 tons of weapons, sold to Croatia by Chile on 7 December 1991, when the former country was under a United Nations' embargo because of the support for Croatia war in Yugoslavia.[91] In January 1992, the judge Hernán Correa de la Cerda wanted to hear Gerardo Huber in this case, but the latter may have been silenced to avoid implicating Pinochet in this new case[13][92][93]—although the latter was not anymore President, he remained at the time Commander-in-Chief of the Army. Pinochet was at the center of this illegal arms trade, receiving money through various offshores and front companies, including the Banco Coutts International in Miami.[94]
Pinochet was stripped of his parliamentary immunity in August 2000 by the Supreme Court, and indicted by judge Juan Guzmán Tapia. Guzmán had ordered in 1999 the arrest of five militarists, including General Pedro Espinoza Bravo of the DINA, for their role in the Caravan of Death following the 11 September coup. Arguing that the bodies of the "disappeared" were still missing, he made jurisprudence, which had as effect to lift any prescription on the crimes committed by the military. Pinochet's trial continued until his death on 10 December 2006, with an alternation of indictments for specific cases, lifting of immunities by the Supreme Court or to the contrary immunity from prosecution, with his health a main argument for, or against, his prosecution.
The Supreme Court affirmed, in March 2005, Pinochet's immunity concerning the 1974 assassination of General Carlos Prats in Buenos Aires, which had taken place in the frame of Operation Condor. However, he was deemed fit to stand trial for Operation Colombo, during which 119 political opponents were "disappeared" in Argentina. The Chilean justice also lifted his immunity on the Villa Grimaldi case, a detention and torture center in the outskirts of Santiago. Pinochet, who still benefited from a reputation of righteousness from his supporters, lost legitimacy when he was put under house arrest on tax fraud and passport forgery, following the publication by the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of a report concerning the Riggs Bank in July 2004. The report was a consequence of investigations on financial funding of the 11 September 2001 attacks in the US. The bank controlled between US$4 million and $8 million of Pinochet's assets, who lived in Santiago in a modest house, dissimulating his wealth. According to the report, Riggs participated in money laundering for Pinochet, setting up offshore shell corporations (referring to Pinochet as only "a former public official"), and hiding his accounts from regulatory agencies. Related to Pinochet's and his family secret bank accounts in United States and in Caribbean islands, this tax fraud filing for an amount of 27 million dollars shocked the conservative sectors who still supported him. Ninety percent of these funds would have been raised between 1990 and 1998, when Pinochet was chief of the Chilean armies, and would essentially have come from weapons traffic (when purchasing Belgian 'Mirage' air-fighters in 1994, Dutch 'Léopard' tanks, Swiss 'Mowag' tanks or by illegal sales of weapons to Croatia, in the middle of the Balkans war.) His wife, Lucía Hiriart, and his son, Marco Antonio Pinochet, were also sued for complicity. For the fourth time in seven years, Pinochet was indicted by the Chilean justice.[95]
[edit]Human rights violations

Main article: Chile under Pinochet#Human rights violations
Pinochet's regime was responsible for various human rights abuses during its reign including murder and torture of political opponents. According to a government commission report that included testimony from more than 30,000 people, Pinochet's government killed at least 3,197 people and tortured about 29,000. Two-thirds of the cases listed in the report happened in 1973.[96]
Professor Clive Foss, in The Tyrants: 2500 Years of Absolute Power and Corruption (Quercus Publishing 2006), estimates that 1,500–2,000 Chileans were killed or disappeared during the Pinochet regime. In October 1979, the New York Times reported that Amnesty International had documented the disappearance of approximately 1,500 Chileans since 1973.[97] Among the killed and disappeared during the military regime were at least 663 Marxist MIR guerrillas.[98] The Manuel Rodríguez Patriotic Front, however, has stated that only 49 FPMR guerrillas were killed but hundreds detained and tortured.[99] According to a study in Latin American Perspectives,[100] at least 200,000 Chileans (about 2% of Chile's 1973 population) were forced to go into exile. Additionally, hundreds of thousands left the country in the wake of the economic crises that followed the military coup during the 1970s and 1980s.[100] Some of the key individuals who fled because of political persecution were followed in their exile by the DINA secret police, in the framework of Operation Condor, which linked South American military dictatorships together against political opponents.
[edit]