Is Capitalism the Cause or the Solution to the Financial Crisis?

[Paulie]

Yep, CF, was talking about Carter. Actually, you nutter, I was talking about the down fall of the American middle class beginning with Reaganism and deregulation.

Which I explained as the intelligence of the middle class deteriorating in kind.

Smart people made money in the housing boom, stupid people lost. More regulation would have still allowed smart people to make money, while the stupid still remained stupid...but just lost maybe a little bit less money.

Fuck the money. Money isn't more imporant than NOT BEING AN APATHETIC MORON.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Cutting taxes and letting people keep more of their money destroys the middle class...only gubbamint can grow the middle class

See, this is how you can be certain that the only way Democrats win an election is because the republicans hand it to them.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Why do you support the Constitution?

Presumably because without the constitution a dictator could emerge .

So every country on Earth without our constitution is ruled by a dictator?

Ah, yet another poster child for education reform.
Do the words "reading Comprehension" have meaning to you?
How do you get from "Dictator Could Emerge" to "Everyone without OUR constitution is ruled by a dictator"?
Of course if you don't support the constitution, why do you live in the US?

 

[Contumacious]

[youtube]Lf8fmego1Cw[/youtube]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

The US adopted fascism in 1913 with the adoption of the Federal Reserve Board and income tax .

The FRB has caused two major depressions and may cause the adoption of socialism.

.

 

[midcan5]

What hooey from Forbes, it is always the big bad government causing these problems, one would have to think of Gov as a virus rather than an institution to follow his strawman argument. If there really were too much money, why did it collapse when the bets were called off? Wouldn't all that money have pay off the debt, and we would have continued on to ??? Doesn't take more than five brain cells to know it was too much speculation and swapping of empty money bags. It ain't capitalism it is people.

Anyone see 60 Minutes on Medicare fraud last evening? While this is fraud it's not much different than giving credit to a person you know can't afford something so you can make more money and then swapping them on the open market over and over and over....

I thought this interesting and somewhat insightful.
Causes: Where Did All That Money Come From? « The Baseline Scenario

Worth a read.
The End Of Wall Streets Boom - News Markets - Portfolio.com
How We Were Ruined & What We Can Do - The New York Review of Books


"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[The Rabbi]

Your brain cell count is obviously limited to 5. Or fewer.

 

[xÞx]

Does it make you a liar now that you've gone back on your word "not to deal with a liar?"

Let the record show that Kevin has admitted to being a liar

At any rate, capitalism is not implied in anarchism. I'd suggest you look up anarcho-communism.

let it also show that he can't comprehend that anarchism and communism are mutually exclusive and that advocating any system at all means you do not advocate anarchy.

No wonder paperview stopped bothering with him

Well, no. Go look at the writings of Emma Goldstein or Alexander Berkman. They were pretty clear that some anarchists were also communists and some were not.
Libertarianism ("Libtardism" from here on) is simply a second cousin to anarchism. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Founding Fathers,who would have been appalled.

Communism constitutes a form of government. Anarchy rejects all forms of government. They can never be married. Naming idiots who think attaching the prefix 'anarcho' to minarchist philosophy somehow makes them seem cool does nothing to change that.

Libertarianism is much much like classical liberalism, if a bit more influenced by minarchist idealism.

 

[xÞx]

I'm a libertarian who would prefer to see the constitution interpreted in literal construct.

As written, as now reads, or as you would revise it?

I have no problems with any laws that are expressly authorized in the constitution itself. How is that anywhere CLOSE to being like anarchy???

Including that which allowed no action be taken to get rid of slavery at the time of the document's writing?

Reagan himself, who I'm sure you're a fan of, had great things to say about libertarianism. He compared it to conservatism in various ways.

Much of classic American Conservatism (as opposed to modern 'neoconservatism') is routed in Classical Liberalism, save the influence of the religious Right.

 

[xÞx]

Paulie, I am for capitalism, the type of government regulation that helped the greatest generation build the greatest middle class through the first of 1970s that the world has ever seen. The great middle class has deteriorated in the last thirty years since the beginning of Reaganism and deregulation.

Capitalism is not a form of government

 

[xÞx]

.

We're screwed, dude. We're screwed.
.

You're starting to sound like a defeatist

 

[xÞx]

Either everyone wakes up all at once, or we continue being used as the pawns that we are.

Or you realize that it's on you to awaken those around you if you feel they need be wakened and you stop putting it off and being a lazy defeatist

 

[xÞx]

Unbridled capitalism is the problem

capitalism must be restrained if the masses aren't to be bent over by the big corporations

capitalism cannot sustain itself without borrowing from socialistic thought and idealism

So says the guy who bends over for Big Gubbamint...

What're you babbling about?

 

[xÞx]

You think a dictator can't emerge with the Constitution , chuck?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Let the record show that Kevin has admitted to being a liar





let it also show that he can't comprehend that anarchism and communism are mutually exclusive and that advocating any system at all means you do not advocate anarchy.

No wonder paperview stopped bothering with him

Well, no. Go look at the writings of Emma Goldstein or Alexander Berkman. They were pretty clear that some anarchists were also communists and some were not.
Libertarianism ("Libtardism" from here on) is simply a second cousin to anarchism. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Founding Fathers,who would have been appalled.

Communism constitutes a form of government. Anarchy rejects all forms of government. They can never be married. Naming idiots who think attaching the prefix 'anarcho' to minarchist philosophy somehow makes them seem cool does nothing to change that.

Libertarianism is much much like classical liberalism, if a bit more influenced by minarchist idealism.

Actually Communism constitutes an economic system, not a form of government.

 

[Charles Stucker]

You think a dictator can't emerge with the Constitution , chuck?

Exactly; unless the dictator can get around the 22nd amendment he won't be able to stay in power. Getting around that amendment requires either revoking the constitution following a military coup or conquest, or dumbing down the voters even more than they are now.

 

[xÞx]

You think a dictator can't emerge with the Constitution , chuck?

Exactly; unless the dictator can get around the 22nd amendment he won't be able to stay in power. Getting around that amendment requires either revoking the constitution following a military coup or conquest, or dumbing down the voters even more than they are now.

Or repealing the 22nd amendment

Or declaring martial law under a state of emergency

 

[Annie]

You think a dictator can't emerge with the Constitution , chuck?

Exactly; unless the dictator can get around the 22nd amendment he won't be able to stay in power. Getting around that amendment requires either revoking the constitution following a military coup or conquest, or dumbing down the voters even more than they are now.

Or repealing the 22nd amendment

Or declaring martial law under a state of emergency

It's still in committee, where I imagine it will remain. Lot's changed since 1/09. Pretty cute though, entering the bill before inauguration.

 

[Paulie]

Either everyone wakes up all at once, or we continue being used as the pawns that we are.

Or you realize that it's on you to awaken those around you if you feel they need be wakened and you stop putting it off and being a lazy defeatist

This is going to take me a while, it looks like.

Defeatist is HARDLY representative of me. I spent most of the first year of my son's life canvassing and helping to campaign for Ron Paul during his primary run as an independent volunteer. I would do it ALL over again if given the chance. I STILL spend the majority of my free time telling people what I know. What I've given up on is EVERYONE ELSE'S ability to do the same. This country is full of obese, apathetic pieces of shit. If all of this still points to defeatism, so be it. I like the time I spend with my son now way better than I like telling someone about something they'll just poo-poo because "that's not what the TV said".

I also gave an AMPLE amount of time this past spring helping to campaign for Steven Lonegan, who was running for NJ's gubernatorial primary. He was the first non-establishment backed candidate to ever perform as well as he did. He lost to Chris Christie by maybe 10 points if that, and in the weeks leading up to the primary they were neck and neck. During the last two weeks, the republican establishment used a TON of national money (NJ was one of only I think 2 states holding a gubernatorial primary at the time, so they a ton of national money to throw around), and they ran ads that COMPLETELY mis-characterized Lonegan's positions that were outright LIES. I don't think I've seen such a frenzy of political bullshit in such a short time in my life. They wanted that spot BAD, and they knew they could beat Corzine this year so they did what they had to do to get rid of Lonegan. There was nothing we could do, we just didn't have the money they had. Giuliani HIMSELF came on and got involved in a TV and radio commercial that lied so bad about Lonegan I could of strangled his ass. So did Steve Forbes. Christie is about as establishment corrupt as they come. One only need to see the establishment's response to Lonegan's success to know this to be true.

Anyway, I fucking had something to PERSONALLY DO with Lonegan's great performance. So take your defeatist label and hand it to someone else.

I'm a libertarian who would prefer to see the constitution interpreted in literal construct.

Your response question:

As written, as now reads, or as you would revise it?

Exactly as written right now. The only revision I would ever allow is an amendment.

I have no problems with any laws that are expressly authorized in the constitution itself. How is that anywhere CLOSE to being like anarchy???

Your response question:

Including that which allowed no action be taken to get rid of slavery at the time of the document's writing?

As you'll see in my previous post, I'm all for allowing amendments. See amendment XIII.

Reagan himself, who I'm sure you're a fan of, had great things to say about libertarianism. He compared it to conservatism in various ways.

Your response question:

Much of classic American Conservatism (as opposed to modern 'neoconservatism') is routed in Classical Liberalism, save the influence of the religious Right.

I don't disagree with that at all. In fact, if you want my most LITERAL ideological label, I would tell you Classical Liberal.

The influence of the religious right was taken and used by the regular republican party because they represent enough electorate capital to sway an election...and their political views are so deeply rooted in their religiois beliefs that you can literally make them decide simply by making them believe something a candidate says or does is 'God's word', or 'God's will".

And I say that as a newly reformed Christian, too. I don't consider myself to be of the religious right, even though I do lean right.

I don't care about religion when it comes to politics and laws. Gay marriage? Who the fuck am I to tell someone who they can and can't marry? Abortion? It's not MY kid. I don't AGREE with it, but I respect each state's right to decide those laws on their own.

 

[xÞx]

Exactly as written right now. The only revision I would ever allow is an amendment.

Exactly as now? you have no complaints about any part of it?

Do you support the changes that have been made since it was written

And I say that as a newly reformed Christian, too. I don't consider myself to be of the religious right, even though I do lean right.

What definition are you using of '{R}ight, since you define yourself as a classical liberal/libertarian?

 

[Paulie]

Exactly as now? you have no complaints about any part of it?

Yes I do, amendment XVI.

Do you support the changes that have been made since it was written

Of course. I already mentioned XIII.

And I say that as a newly reformed Christian, too. I don't consider myself to be of the religious right, even though I do lean right.

What definition are you using of '{R}ight, since you define yourself as a classical liberal/libertarian?

I don't use definitions with this shit dude. That's stupid, they're all made up bullcrap anyway. I know what I am.

I lean right economically.

Here's my Political Compass chart, if you'd like to see it:

Economic issues: +5.95 right

Social issues: +4.62 libertarian

Foreign policy: +6.28 non-interventionist

Cultural identification: +1.04 liberal