Is Bush A Racist?

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
So Blackman's main argument that Republicans are racist is because we think people should be judged by their character and not the color of their skin and we dont believe anyone should get special treatment because of their race regardless of whether they are white, black, asian, hispanic or any other group?

The revisionist history is interesting. Trying to paint the Republicans as the radicals who took over the party when its the New Left (The new name for communisism) took over the Democrat party after The Democrat Convention with Humphrey. Its the same thing Democrats always do, try to blame Republicans for their actions.

When you talk about the Republican party's views on Affirmative Action at least be accurate. Republicans didn't want Affirmative Action policies from it's conception. At that time the work force overwhelming favored the Majority (white men) in the work force. And did much to exclude (directly and indirectly) access for Minorities.

Now that Affirmative Action is mending (still more to go) the discrimation with regards to Majority favoritism in the work force. Republicans often use the guise of no special treatment (which sounds perfect in theory) in order to re-advance the Majority favoritism.

Republicans disregard the impact of Majority injustices in American history, which have served to tip the scales against Minorities. The removal of Affirmative Action safeguards will only serve to tip the scales back.

Look at it statistically... If there are 12% of Blacks in America, then without any racially motivated special treatments, Blacks should comprise 12% (+/- a small degree of error) of every aspect of the work force from top to bottom. Due to historical exclusionary practices for Minorities, this is clearly not true.

Affirmative Action is inclusionary practices used to reverse those previous exclusionary practices.

Without resolving the effects of those exclusionary practices, simple removal of Affirmative Action policies would go to reinstitute those exclusionary practices.


Simply restated, statistics can be a guide for determining whether Minority exclusionary practices have been resolved. Until we resolve those exclusionary practices, we must simply face the facts.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
On the issues mentioned:
equality, religious tolerance, and gay rights the Republican party clearly takes the position of the oppressive majority.

Or do you suggest otherwise?

LoneVoice,

I have rebutted your tripe elsewhere on the boards. It is intellectually dishonest to call all Republicans racist and oppressive because they don't hand out special rights.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Simply restated, statistics can be a guide for determining whether Minority exclusionary practices have been resolved. Until we resolve those exclusionary practices, we must simply face the facts.

Have you read the racism threads in the general section where Big D posts stat after stat about crime stats regarding blacks. Are you in agreement with Big D then?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
When you talk about the Republican party's views on Affirmative Action at least be accurate. Republicans didn't want Affirmative Action policies from it's conception. At that time the work force overwhelming favored the Majority (white men) in the work force. And did much to exclude (directly and indirectly) access for Minorities.

Now that Affirmative Action is mending (still more to go) the discrimation with regards to Majority favoritism in the work force. Republicans often use the guise of no special treatment (which sounds perfect in theory) in order to re-advance the Majority favoritism.

Republicans disregard the impact of Majority injustices in American history, which have served to tip the scales against Minorities. The removal of Affirmative Action safeguards will only serve to tip the scales back.

Look at it statistically... If there are 12% of Blacks in America, then without any racially motivated special treatments, Blacks should comprise 12% (+/- a small degree of error) of every aspect of the work force from top to bottom. Due to historical exclusionary practices for Minorities, this is clearly not true.

Affirmative Action is inclusionary practices used to reverse those previous exclusionary practices.

Without resolving the effects of those exclusionary practices, simple removal of Affirmative Action policies would go to reinstitute those exclusionary practices.


Simply restated, statistics can be a guide for determining whether Minority exclusionary practices have been resolved. Until we resolve those exclusionary practices, we must simply face the facts.

Blah Blah Blah

Call it what you will. Affirmative action is discrimination. There is absolutly no reason in the world that anyone in this country should be discriminated against and discrimination should not be tolerated. The response to discrimination should be to prevent it, not reverse it.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Have you read the racism threads in the general section where Big D posts stat after stat about crime stats regarding blacks. Are you in agreement with Big D then?

I've seen stats....

Do those stats in any way depict the influences of oppressive Majority injustices throughout America history?

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by Moi
Blah Blah Blah

Call it what you will. Affirmative action is discrimination. There is absolutly no reason in the world that anyone in this country should be discriminated against and discrimination should not be tolerated. The response to discrimination should be to prevent it, not reverse it.

Agreed it is discrimination...

It's short term discrimination used to reverse the effects of the long term discrimination that has occured.

Take the full picture into account.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
I've seen stats....

Do those stats in any way depict the influences of oppressive Majority injustices throughout America history?

I don't think so. It's not reasonable to think murders are committed because someone is upset with government policy. That's just a copout.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Agreed it is discrimination...

It's short term discrimination used to reverse the effects of the long term discrimination that has occured.

Take the full picture into account.

Discrimination wasn't ok then, but it's ok now because it's been done to them previously? That's ridiculous.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
On the issues mentioned:
equality, religious tolerance, and gay rights the Republican party clearly takes the position of the oppressive majority.

Or do you suggest otherwise?

Is a policy of an equal playing field without racial preferences a sign of Republicans being against equality? No, it is the exact opposite, the Demos do not believe that minorities have he ability to do anything on their own and need the proverbial leg up from the government in the form of affirmative action and quotas. Racism in disguise.

Religious tolerance? Are you kidding? Who is demonized constantly by the left uh maybe christian conservatives? The only religion that is tolerated by Demos is secular humanism. If you really think that the speration of church and state was supposed to be taken to the lengths that it has I suggest you look at what is printed on our money.

Gay rights is simply an easy choice between right and wrong, if that makes us oppressive so be it.

 

[shergald]

Every government believes in self-defense and it is a universal. Attacking Iraq had nothing to do with national defense unless you still believe the nonsense promulgated by Bush to justify it, now apparently totally discredited. That said, everyone is glad to see Sadam go, but it has had a cost: activating Terrorism and alienating our allies.

Every time I hear this stuff about freedom in economics starting with Reaganomics, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer including maybe yourself. The restrictions on growth of wealth beginning at the start of the last century has had a beneficial effect on all of us. It allowed the middle class to grow into what it is. Social security and a graduated tax system are some of the other beneficial effects of government controls on wealth. The wealthy already benefit from many tax loopholes with the average tax in any case being about 7% compared to what it should be. The wealthy, by manipulating the government, already pay disproportionately less than everyone else, the loss estimated to be about 400 billion a year.

Whose values did you say? Just who is determining what values are American values? Read LoneVoice's posts. He may have a different idea about what American values are or should be than you do. The Republican idea of values consists of the front issues I described in earlier posts, the critical one being racism, others having to do with God, guns, and gays. It is positions on these issues that gets Republicans elected, not those you claim.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I don't think so. It's not reasonable to think murders are committed because someone is upset with government policy. That's just a copout.

I never said anything about happening cuz someone is upset with government policy.

I haven't said, because W, did certain things to X. That justifies X doing Y criminal activities.

I just said do those stats figure in the impact of Majority injustices...

Obviously, you want to just flat out ignore past history and its impact on current American society.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Discrimination wasn't ok then, but it's ok now because it's been done to them previously? That's ridiculous.

Yeah, that it ridiculous! I don't know why you're even arguing it.

The question is: What has to be done to remedy the effects of discrimination?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Agreed it is discrimination...

It's short term discrimination used to reverse the effects of the long term discrimination that has occured.

Take the full picture into account.

The full picture in account is that slavery started outside this country, all segments of the population have been discriminated against and the only ones who have received preferential treament, 100 years later, is so-called minorities.

It is just as wrong to have preferential treament for any segment regardless of what prior wrongs it's meant to correct; especially when those who are paying the price of these supposed wrongs weren't the ones responsible. You want to get back at the people who discrimated against minorities - dig em up and flog them. It is unconstitutional and anti-american to make the son pay for the sins of the fathers.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by OCA

Is a policy of an equal playing field without racial preferences a sign of Republicans being against equality? No, it is the exact opposite, the Demos do not believe that minorities have he ability to do anything on their own and need the proverbial leg up from the government in the form of affirmative action and quotas. Racism in disguise.


Are you ignoring the effects that previous racism has inflicted on American society? You don't think that society should take responsibilty for those effects??? Instead, you think that those effects should be ignored and discounted as in the past???

Religious tolerance? Are you kidding? Who is demonized constantly by the left uh maybe christian conservatives? The only religion that is tolerated by Demos is secular humanism. If you really think that the speration of church and state was supposed to be taken to the lengths that it has I suggest you look at what is printed on our money.

Gay rights is simply an easy choice between right and wrong, if that makes us oppressive so be it.
So let me ask you the general religious question.... are you for or against expanding the influence of ALL religions in American society?

Sure being gay is a choice. Heck being straight is a choice. We all choose who our partner is. Your issue is whether you believe being straight or being gay is moral. That morality issue is founded on your personal religious beliefs.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by Moi
The full picture in account is that slavery started outside this country, all segments of the population have been discriminated against and the only ones who have received preferential treament, 100 years later, is so-called minorities.

It is just as wrong to have preferential treament for any segment regardless of what prior wrongs it's meant to correct; especially when those who are paying the price of these supposed wrongs weren't the ones responsible. You want to get back at the people who discrimated against minorities - dig em up and flog them. It is unconstitutional and anti-american to make the son pay for the sins of the fathers.

Nobody said anything about getting back at the people who discriminated against minorities. All I've said is that society is responsible for the impact that it has had.

The people in the Majority may not be directly responsible for those injustices (although there are numerous people still alive), but many of those Majority are still currently reaping the benefits.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Nobody said anything about getting back at the people who discriminated against minorities. All I've said is that society is responsible for the impact that it has had.

The people in the Majority may not be directly responsible for those injustices (although there are numerous people still alive), but many of those Majority are still currently reaping the benefits.

You are so full of it. You have no idea what would have happened had minorities never been here so you have no idea who is reaping what from whom.

Just because you believe that people should have a free ride on other's backs doesn't make it right or constitutional. If you like free rides so much you should have been a jockey.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
I just said do those stats figure in the impact of Majority injustices...

I think those stats mean that blacks committ a disproportionate amount of crime based on their percentage of the population, PERIOD.

There is no excuse whatsover to factor into murder/rape/assault.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by shergald
Every government believes in self-defense and it is a universal. Attacking Iraq had nothing to do with national defense unless you still believe the nonsense promulgated by Bush to justify it, now apparently totally discredited. That said, everyone is glad to see Sadam go, but it has had a cost: activating Terrorism and alienating our allies.

Every time I hear this stuff about freedom in economics starting with Reaganomics, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer including maybe yourself. The restrictions on growth of wealth beginning at the start of the last century has had a beneficial effect on all of us. It allowed the middle class to grow into what it is. Social security and a graduated tax system are some of the other beneficial effects of government controls on wealth. The wealthy already benefit from many tax loopholes with the average tax in any case being about 7% compared to what it should be. The wealthy, by manipulating the government, already pay disproportionately less than everyone else, the loss estimated to be about 400 billion a year.

Whose values did you say? Just who is determining what values are American values? Read LoneVoice's posts. He may have a different idea about what American values are or should be than you do. The Republican idea of values consists of the front issues I described in earlier posts, the critical one being racism, others having to do with God, guns, and gays. It is positions on these issues that gets Republicans elected, not those you claim.

Democrats havent cared about Defense since Kennedy. Look at what Carter and Clinton did. They weakened Americas defenses. opposed allies in favor of dictatorships and oppressive regimes, installed oppressive dictators, made treaties offering nuclear technology to enemies if they promise not to hurt us and not responding to attacks by communists and terrorists. They are obviously not pro defense. Which is one of the big reasons Kerry wont be reelected because he is not only one of the left. He is one of the most radical and has the least ammount of charisma to hide his radicalism.

We were attacked on September 11. From that day we were awaked to the threat the terrorists have posed to our nation all along. We are not going to be lulled back to sleep. We are going to end fight terror by taking the war to them, liberating and thus stablizing the middle east where most of these terrorists come from and by taking out the tyrants who slaughter innocent people. Iraq was a strategic defense war. We now have Iran pinned, and can push it towards liberation easily. We also have two nations friendly to us and our interests and willing to crack down on terrorism. To say Iraq wasnt defensive is to ignore any kind of military strategy. And to say Terrorism was activated by Iraq is to ignore the fact that Terrorism has been going on for the last twenty years. And if any of our allies are alienated is because they refuse to deal with the threat that faces our civilization.

The values Conservatives stand for are family, faith, and freedom. Which is why we oppose the unconstitutional actions of the radicals who seek to destroy the family, those who seek to forbid people from practicing their religion in public and those who try to bring minorities into bondage with "entitlements".

As for your economics jibberish. Take some economic classes and read the newspaper from time to time. Youll realize that the poor are getting richer as well.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I think those stats mean that blacks committ a disproportionate amount of crime based on their percentage of the population, PERIOD.

There is no excuse whatsover to factor into murder/rape/assault.

Once again you want to ignore the impact of history....

Historical factors have a major impact on current society.

If Columbus hadn't sailed the ocean, that would've had a significant impact on what America looks like today.

If gun powder hadn't been discovered, then that would've impacted European influence in the world.

Many historical practices have an effect on where we are as a society today. As members of a society we have to take responsibility for what there is for us to be responsible for.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Once again you want to ignore the impact of history....

Historical factors have a major impact on current society.

If Columbus hadn't sailed the ocean, that would've had a significant impact on what America looks like today.

If gun powder hadn't been discovered, then that would've impacted European influence in the world.

Many historical practices have an effect on where we are as a society today. As members of a society we have to take responsibility for what there is for us to be responsible for.

Nope, sorry! There is NO excuse or nothing in history that somehow makes it somehow ok/reasonable or understandable to commit murder, rape or assault.