Is Bush A Racist?

[jimnyc]

Blackman - I merged your new thread into this ongoing thread of the same subject. There is no need to start another racist thread, we have enough of them going around.

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by William Joyce




2. Rice is genuinely bright, but she never would have ascended to her Stanford position and then the cabinet as a white woman. Ever. Same goes for

She's bright? She graduated from the University of Denver at 15 years old , even if she majored in PE that would be a huge accomplishment .

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by BlackMan
Too many posters have challenged the idea that the Republican party is founded on old Jim Crow racism. This piece may be long but it is quite educational and may put to rest the denial that is often used to defend the party as being other than racist. You will note that there are references to Clinton's manipulation of race: remember his promise to 'change welfare as we know it.' This was obvious pandering to just enough white voters to put him over top, yet retain full Black support. His record as a nonracist otherwise speaks for itself.

RACISM AND PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS SINCE 1964: A SHORT HISTORY. By Ted Glick, RacismWatch (Znet, February 19, 2004)

This whole post is nothing but tripe by people who believe that anyone who doesn't support special rights for blacks is a racist.

 

[jimnyc]

Blackman - please familiarize yourself with the rules of the board. All articles posted here MUST contain a link to it's original source. Future posts without sources will just be deleted. I'm not going to hunt down your sources every time.

Here is a link to Blackman's latest article:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=33&ItemID=5011

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by BlackMan
Reagan officially kicked off his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, in Neshoba County, at a fairgrounds used as a meeting place by the KKK and other racist groups.

You're posting on a message board used by rascists and white supremacists. I guess that makes you a rascist and white supremacist.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by sitarro

This would be the prime example of the asswipe argument against the line that says that "I'm not racist , some of my best friends are black " . It is a no win argument . If you say you have black friends(no matter how true that is) that is used against you even stronger than if you would have said I don't know any blacks . It is a typical example of the circular arguments that the left have perfected in their own minds.
Circular argument, No. This just demonstrates your ability to understand the opposing point of view. Even during the Jim Crow days many of the white oppressive majority, knew, interacted with, and were friends of Blacks (i.e. they may have had Black nannies, servants, employees, co-workers, friends, acquaintances...). But even then, many of them were still part of the oppressive majority (i.e. would never allow interracial dating, qualified Blacks to attain high position, denied service from certain businesses...). Those would be prime examples of racists (some unknowingly so) who had friends and acquaintances that were Black.

It is the same as the way that you clowns never answer a direct question , you answer with questions. It finally gets to the point where the sane person doesn't want to bother dealing with you .
What question in this thread has been left unanswered?

The fact is that some of my best friends have been black , lesbians , and homosexuals , period . I have also been very close to a Mexican family , a French family , and an Asian family .That is just a fact . My neighbors that live across the street are black . We don't spend a lot of time socializing , we don't have much in common . That doesn't mean that I don't like them , that just means that they have their friends and I have mine .They spend time with friends from their church , I am not interested in church business. I do value my friendship with them and have conversations with them often . I do tend to be the one that goes to them , I tend to be somewhat outgoing , I never felt it was because they were racist towards whites . I guess if I looked for that I could assume that they are racist and that is why they don't come to me. I am sorry that I am "all over the place" .
Yeah you are a little, but that's OK. As long as you're engaging in trying to understand the perspective of both sides of the argument, then you'll always be on the path to enlightenment.

I am not as well practiced at defending the place I am from as being not racist as you are at accusing half of the country of being racist .
When you say accusing half of the country of being racist, you may be confusing the fact that I said many policies of Bush and the Republican party tend towards the oppressive majority. When asked if all Republicans are racist or vice versa, I responded no.

Most of the crap that you have spewed is the standard tripe that is typical from the latent racist liberal . You guys go around collecting people of different races to surround yourself with to prove to the world that you aren't racist , but deep down inside you wouldn't dare spend any time with them . You act out of guilt just as the hypocrites in Hollywood do. You try to prove your amazing tolerance by accusing the Republicans of being intolerant but then your true colors always come out . You use symbols to prove your accusations wether there is any validity to them or not, The Confederate Battle flag , NASCAR , golf , etc. etc. .
Where are you getting that from? What are you basing that on?
i.e. "You act out of guilt...". That in no way is applicable to me with regards to this matter.

The fact is that the idea of racism is seen equally with all races . Humans tend to hang out with others that we have something in common with . That can be the color of skin , club membership , profession , the school you attend , etc. .
That's exactly the point that I've mentioned throughout this thread. That's the main point of things like affirmative action that provides opportunities to have the best of all races rise to the top. Based on U.S. history the oppressive majority will always limit access against the best of ALL races. Affirmative action is done to rectify those faults.

Some have just gotten used to putting everything into racial terms because over the years they have found success with those tactics. I don't find those claims that valid, I guess it has come from the "crying wolf" too often. It just isn't always about racism .
Is it possible that some have put it into those terms because from their experiences they have found it to be valid? We have numerous examples in our history (past and present) whereby people have been denied based on race or gender or physicality. Yet some want our legislation to act ignorant of those facts about current American society. Ultimately, I think we could all be on the same side on this. The more we reduce these race, gender, or physicality discriminations in normal society, then the more we will be able to reduce policies against it. Our society has come quite a ways already (slavery, no women's rights, ...). The real point is to honestly look at society and ask is there any more that is yet to be done? Or are we truly balanced? .... as much as is reasonably attainable - note: don't sell the effort short.

Consider that maybe if things were reasonably equal, then all of us would come together and agree that the legislation is no longer needed.

When it comes to some of these major issues, let's pay a little more attention to the oppressed minority. It's often too easy for the oppressive majority to automatically resist, especially when they're not the ones being overwhelmingly afflicted.


What it comes down to is that you accuse our President of being a racist and I say that I don't buy it , the fact that you are accusing him makes you more of a racist.
Once again, I'll restate that I said that him and his party often tend toward the oppressive majority.


oh by the way , it is not Justice Thomas's job to make rulings in favor of any group , his job is to interpret the Constitution and the law .
Ultimately it's not his job. Ideally courts should have some level of representation of its constituents of society. Given that, where is the representation of the Black constituency.

Suppose, just suppose, that the Supreme Court was non-reflexive of its constituency in the reverse direction, and thus was composed primarily of Blacks only and no Whites. Do you think that would have any impact on how they'd rule on many issues?

 

[sitarro]

Well Lone ,
Your answers are well thought out and thought provoking but most of my post wasn't directed at you .
I look at how far black people have come and it gets just a bit hard to stomach the constant whining of racism . I don't know if the people crying racism every few minutes have noticed but . . . .
Black acts have taken over the music industry in a huge way , At any given time the top ten is easily filled with a majority of black "musicians" . White people are a huge reason for their sales figures . The Williams sisters are at the top of the Tennis world , whites are a majority of their fan base. Tiger Woods is the number one golfer in the world and his fan base is almost exclusively white . Oprah is easily the most successful self made women in this country , huge white fan base . The NBA , overwhelmingly black yet supported heavily by whites . The NFL , the same as the NBA. Hale Berry recieved the Oscar last year for best female actress , also a huge white fan base . Densel Washington , huge white fan base .Chris Rock , Eddie Murphy , David Chappelle are all very successful comediens with huge white fan bases.
I could go on and on but I am sure that the reaction will be the predictable , that this is not enough , and then we will hear the list of all the oppressed people out there . I am a single white male , 50 years old , no college degree , facial hair and not 6 feet tall . I am disciminated against from a wide assortment of people . . . that is life . Iwill never play basketball , rap , dance , play football , compete in tennis or golf , or host a talk show . I also won't be getting an Oscar either . . . damn it , it's just not fair! Sometimes it just isn't racism.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by sitarro

Well Lone ,
Your answers are well thought out and thought provoking but most of my post wasn't directed at you .
Thanks for the compliment.


I look at how far black people have come and it gets just a bit hard to stomach the constant whining of racism . I don't know if the people crying racism every few minutes have noticed but . . . .
Black acts have taken over the music industry in a huge way , At any given time the top ten is easily filled with a majority of black "musicians" . White people are a huge reason for their sales figures . The Williams sisters are at the top of the Tennis world , whites are a majority of their fan base. Tiger Woods is the number one golfer in the world and his fan base is almost exclusively white . Oprah is easily the most successful self made women in this country , huge white fan base . The NBA , overwhelmingly black yet supported heavily by whites . The NFL , the same as the NBA. Hale Berry recieved the Oscar last year for best female actress , also a huge white fan base . Densel Washington , huge white fan base .Chris Rock , Eddie Murphy , David Chappelle are all very successful comediens with huge white fan bases.
I agree that Blacks have come a long way overall. Some ventures in life are much more concrete and more open to equal opportunity, and thus harder to maintain racism (i.e. sports). That's one of the reasons that Blacks have been able to succeed. If you can run a 4.1 40, it's very difficult for prejudism to say you can't. So, Blacks have been able to succeed in those ventures. On the other hand, I'd suggest to say that many of the aforementioned people that you've mentioned have encountered instances of racism that attempted to deny or setback their successes. Others probably have encountered those same racial walls and were not able to overcome them for various reasons. Therefore the main point of many minority activists, is simply to break down those walls and provide access.


[/B] I could go on and on but I am sure that the reaction will be the predictable , that this is not enough , and then we will hear the list of all the oppressed people out there . [/B]
Throughout history the oppressed minority has claimed unfair, discriminatory practices. Often times the oppressive majority has denied those claims. Usually in the distant future, the oppressed minority has been able to prove their claims or win their case. So, usually right wins out in the end. Unfortunately, in the meantime many have been significantly and unfairly afflicted by such injustices. That's what affirmative action policy is about - to accelerate the process by which those afflictions are rectified.

I am a single white male , 50 years old , no college degree , facial hair and not 6 feet tall . I am disciminated against from a wide assortment of people . . . that is life . Iwill never play basketball , rap , dance , play football , compete in tennis or golf , or host a talk show . I also won't be getting an Oscar either . . . damn it , it's just not fair! Sometimes it just isn't racism.
The question is, have you ever been denied the opportunity to succeed to the best of your abilities for reasons of discrimination, as opposed to merit or skills? Based on circumstances in American history, many have been denied that ability, that you naturally expect that you'll have. Those people just want access to the same opportunities that you have had.

 

[BlackMan]

An appropriate username on this board in particular. Much of LonVoice's commentary is accurate and well spoken, but it has invited little commentary, certainly not much agreement from the few responders who posted. Aside of the harmless self-confessed racists who regularly post here, the greatest force working here as elsewhere to maintain racism in our society is its denial. Silent denial, along with apology and rationalizations are just symptoms of an unwillingness of too many Republicans to recognize or admit to the racism and bigotry of their party. Republicans demand laboratory proof rather than acknowledge historical fact in the same way that Holocaust denial is a symptom of antiSemitism. I don't know if Bush is a racist. But like too many on this board, like him, they support racism. He got elected on its force. If you support racism then you are a racist. This is a most difficult reality for many here to accept, because everyone understands that it is an expression of stupidity, ignorance, and weak mindedness. And nobody here wants to be seen as aligning themselves with such traits.

 

[jimnyc]

Jesus, looks like we have the "anti William Joyce" here. Is this all you have to offer, nothing but repeating the racism card over and over and over?

By your username I am assuming you are black. Most here get tired of the racists constantly blaming the blacks for everything. I'm confident they would get equally as tired of blacks throwing in the race card as well.

Non stop ramblings about racism only serve to make the divide even further apart.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by BlackMan
An appropriate username on this board in particular. Much of LonVoice's commentary is accurate and well spoken, but it has invited little commentary, certainly not much agreement from the few responders who posted. Aside of the harmless self-confessed racists who regularly post here, the greatest force working here as elsewhere to maintain racism in our society is its denial. Silent denial, along with apology and rationalizations are just symptoms of an unwillingness of too many Republicans to recognize or admit to the racism and bigotry of their party. Republicans demand laboratory proof rather than acknowledge historical fact in the same way that Holocaust denial is a symptom of antiSemitism. I don't know if Bush is a racist. But like too many on this board, like him, they support racism. He got elected on its force. If you support racism then you are a racist. This is a most difficult reality for many here to accept, because everyone understands that it is an expression of stupidity, ignorance, and weak mindedness. And nobody here wants to be seen as aligning themselves with such traits.

I understand your situation and you've probably had some past experiences and/or known of instances with your friends or family.
Now, on the other hand, I caution you that responding with outright attacks, although may feel good at some level, ultimately will not help your cause.

 

[shergald]

Unlike Blackman, I do think that Bush is a racist. However, I do not believe that racism is the main agenda of the Republican party even though it projects it everywhere it can. It is rather a major front issue of the party, one which has propelled it to political power, as has the many of the other forms of bigotry it espouses. The main agenda of the Republican party is the same as it has always been: to enhance the wealth of the rich men who control it. Reaganomics, the Bush taxcut, corporation handouts, IRS loopholes, are just some examples of what the party is primarily about. Racism is only the means of getting and holding onto power.

I don't think Blackman believes he will change anyone's mind on this board, Lone man. Most of the persons whose postings I have read are opinionated and only here to reinforce their own views. Reason has no place here. If you have an agenda you want to convince someone about, this is not the place. What gives me a chuckle is that underneath all of the trivial chitchat, these very Republican rah-rah boys and girls, ironically, will end up like the rest of us paying for the huge amounts of money the rich men withdraw from the government every time the Republicans get into office. It happened during Reagan's administration, which we are still paying for, and it is happening under Bush's. The longer we keep him in there, the more they will end up paying. Well, let them pay. I must tell you, Lone man, this kind of irony can only be found on boards like this one. You are wasting your time with reasoned arguments. The Republican party has them so snowed they are beyond reason.

PS: I don't want to change these posters, only to let them know what their party is all about. It is really surprising that so many don't know how much the wealthy in this country appreciate their efforts.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by shergald
Most of the persons whose postings I have read are opinionated and only here to reinforce their own views. Reason has no place here.

Tell us, exactly why you are here?

Rather funny coming from someone who only comes here to make ridiculous claims based on conspiracy theories.

You're funny though, and I thank you for this comedy.

 

[LoneVoice]

Hmmmm..... I find it quite interesting that I have made claims that Bush and the Republican party is based on racist policies due to its support of the oppressive majority.

Yet with all the Republicans on this board, they don't refute those allegations. You've obviously been reading this thread.

There is more that could be said on that issue...

Is that a tacit admission?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Hmmmm..... I find it quite interesting that I have made claims that Bush and the Republican party is based on racist policies due to its support of the oppressive majority.

Yet with all the Republicans on this board, they don't refute those allegations. You've obviously been reading this thread.

There is more that could be said on that issue...

Is that a tacit admission?

Sometimes inane threads which are completely ridiculous don't garner as much attention. While I'm sure there are some racists in both parties, claiming that an entire party is based on racist policies is completely absurd.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Sometimes inane threads which are completely ridiculous don't garner as much attention. While I'm sure there are some racists in both parties, claiming that an entire party is based on racist policies is completely absurd.

On the issues mentioned:
equality, religious tolerance, and gay rights the Republican party clearly takes the position of the oppressive majority.

Or do you suggest otherwise?

 

[shergald]

I added a PS to tell you why I am come here from time to time. As for conspiracy theories, when I was twelve years old, I asked my father why he always voted for the Democrat (as my mother had advised me). He put it this way: if you're a rich man, you vote for the Republican; if you're a poor man, you vote for the Democrat. He was an immigrant with six years of education, but apparently he knew more than many of the highly educated people I've seen post on this board including those who think that the populist issue is a conspiracy theory. My Lord, there has been so much written on the topic, it is hard to believe anyone would question it. Greed is one thing, but to use destructive issues such as racism to gain power in order accumulate wealth is quite another. Very sad party, indeed.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
On the issues mentioned:
equality, religious tolerance, and gay rights the Republican party clearly takes the position of the oppressive majority.

Or do you suggest otherwise?

I'll repeat myself, saying the entire party is based on racist policies is absurd. That's no different than Big D or William Joyce claiming that all blacks or jews are no good.

 

[sitarro]

Shergald ,
Do you have opinions? Where do they come from ?
Do you dislike the Kennedys and Kerrys , they are both extremely wealthy families . Do you know how they got their money ? How about that Soros idiot , do you hate him because he is rich . Then of course the biggest whinners of all , the "hard working" actors and musicians in the entertainment industry that are worth millions . These are all Democrats.
When you talk about the Republican party you are talking about a wide variety of people . My father was a staunch Republican , he was not rich by any means . He served this country in the United States Air Force for 29 years . He raised six kids on the salary of a Captain and Major , was married to my Mother for 57 years , and the finest role model I have ever known . Upon retiring he flew corporate jets for years . One person he flew quite a bit was Govenor Edwin Edwards , Democrat from Louisiana . The stories he told me about this guy would make Bill Clinton blush . Here was a Republican flying a Democrat around the country on free trips. Trips to Vegas , showgirls , very young female companions , Aspen , according to your description he should be a Republican . Now he is in jail .
I on the other hand , vote Republican because I feel that the Democrats insult my intelligence everytime they open their mouth . You don't do much to change that perception .
Your generalizations about Republicans are assinine . Nobody can have that warped of a view , you must be a troll .

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by shergald
My Lord, there has been so much written on the topic, it is hard to believe anyone would question it. Greed is one thing, but to use destructive issues such as racism to gain power in order accumulate wealth is quite another. Very sad party, indeed.

And anyone that believes that bunch of horseshit is sad.

Tell us how the current republican party is using racism to gain power and accumulate wealth.