Is America the greatest country in the world?

[Wry Catcher]

What a pompous answer! And wrong in the trillion column too!

We have (had) a country with a Constitutionally limited central government and 50 sovereign states that were supposed to be incubators of ideas and ideals. How'd he miss that? That's what made us great.

The one nation on the planet set up to acknowledge and protect the rights of the individual.

The point, moron, is what happened to that country.

 

[Foxfyre]

The following is maybe the most honest three and a half minutes we have seen in any medium for some time now. * * * *

The most honest three and a half minutes of television, EVER... - YouTube

There WERE some tidbits of honesty in that three and a half minutes.

There was also a lot of very stale, tired, rancid and not particularly honest partisan hackery.

When the character intones how we "used to" pass laws for moral reasons and cited the "example" of "waging wars on poverty not on poor people," I snorted.

We passed bullshit ineffectual "laws" to address poverty. And we have never waged wars ON poor people.

If you bury that kind of rancid bullshit in what could have otherwise been a fair-minded answer to the "question," the 3 1/2 minutes of honesty gets tragically diluted.

It was a Sorokin liberal bit of verbal masturbation wherein liberals are the enlightened good guys and conservatives are the thuggish bad guys.

Yeah. There is some painful truth in the speech. There's also a lot of crap.

I think it all depends on how you interpret what he is saying or what filter you look through to arrive at a conclusion. I did not get the same inferences from it that you did, and anybody who knows me is that I am about as modern American conservative as they come and have been railing against the welfare state for decades now. He didn't say so specifically, but within the whole of his message, I could easily see him seeing the so called "War on Poverty" as a war on the poor and a part of the problem, not the solution. I interpreted it that he started out by focusing on modern liberalism and wove that into the substance of his observation about what was wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

This way of discussing the question is so far from anything indicative that participating is a dubious activity, but to play the game...

Determining the criteria of what is desirable would be nice. Anyone who has actually lived in another country for a significant amount of time knows that people there are often quite satisfied with their culture and system. The French, English, Germans and many other Europeans are usually interested in America, but not in moving there.

Many things in the US are great, many problems are also great. A flat statement that it is the best is totally unsubstantiated.

Which is what the speaker in the video said. I touched on what I would consider desirable in my first post after the OP. The speaker in the video touched on it in his closing remarks when he denounced social policy based on politics and obviously longed for the time that men were men, less likely to compromise out of fear, and who acted based on moral conviction rather than social pressure.

 

[CandySlice]

And to start things off, I voted "Yes" and also "No, but it could be again" which of course is yes and no.

For me I would not choose to live anywhere else. It is the greatest country in the world. But I also grieve at what we have lost of our greatness in my lifetime, and how much I hope to live to see us regain that greatness.

I voted no, but it could again too.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What a pompous answer! And wrong in the trillion column too!

We have (had) a country with a Constitutionally limited central government and 50 sovereign states that were supposed to be incubators of ideas and ideals. How'd he miss that? That's what made us great.

The one nation on the planet set up to acknowledge and protect the rights of the individual.

The point, moron, is what happened to that country.

Here's what what wrong, Freddo

 

[Foxfyre]

What a pompous answer! And wrong in the trillion column too!

We have (had) a country with a Constitutionally limited central government and 50 sovereign states that were supposed to be incubators of ideas and ideals. How'd he miss that? That's what made us great.

The one nation on the planet set up to acknowledge and protect the rights of the individual.

The point, moron, is what happened to that country.

Here's what what wrong, Freddo

Under our Constitution, however, no President can cause too much mischief unless the people are so apathetic they don't care or so lazy they can't be bothered or are so partisan they sacrifice their values and principles or are so unedcuated they are too easily fooled or, finally, so addicted to what they get or hope to get through the government, that they look the other way re any negatives or warning signs.

It was part of the final point the speaker in the video said. We were once the greatest nation because we were a people of courage and conviction and commitment to what was the right thing to do.

 

[there4eyeM]

The four photos above that propose to explain 'what went wrong' are interesting. It is particularly notable that the first three were very intelligent. Perhaps this shows that, as the fourth was the worst, unintelligent is even more dangerous.

 

[Foxfyre]

The four photos above that propose to explain 'what went wrong' are interesting. It is particularly notable that the first three were very intelligent. Perhaps this shows that, as the fourth was the worst, unintelligent is even more dangerous.

And again, please do not derail the thread with partisan jabs. The thesis of the video did not focus on political parties or personalities. It focused on values, convictions, principles, and courage. It focused on the people and how they conduct themselves in their world.

 

[Synthaholic]

Which categories do you mean specifically? the education system in Korea may be better and you get free health care in Cuba but look at all the Cubans and Koreans who come here to live. America is the best country in the world hands down.

These are excellent points. You don't see a lot of Americans wanting to emigrate to Korea or Cuba. There are lots of Koreans and Cubans who would love to immigrate here.

And that is not an insignificant thing.

I dont think the swiss are beating the door down to get in

Or the Swedes. Or the Dutch. Or the Danes. Or the Finns. Or the Aussies. Or the New Zealanders. Or the Germans. Or the French. Or the Belgiums. Or the Norwegians. Or the . . .

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I answered "was and can be again" (before watching the video).
We are no longer a Representative Republic.
We are a Plutocracy that pretends to be a representative governance.
American culture in the past 30 years is about "ME"...PERIOD.
We talk about "where are the jobs" - but we have allowed the situation where the nations largest employer is a retail box chain selling a vast array of cheap foreign made goods whose company motto is "as cheap as possible". - WE did this.

I could go on for pages...but I have to go.

 

[Mr Natural]

It depends on where in America you live.

I'll take a nice upwardly mobile suburban community in France or Sweden over an inner city slum or two-bit down-and-out town in Nowheresville, Texas anyday.

 

[there4eyeM]

The fact that 'W' existed and was actually president for two terms goes a long way in explaining why the US is not necessarily the best country.

 

[Synthaholic]

The following is maybe the most honest three and a half minutes we have seen in any medium for some time now. * * * *

The most honest three and a half minutes of television, EVER... - YouTube

There WERE some tidbits of honesty in that three and a half minutes.

There was also a lot of very stale, tired, rancid and not particularly honest partisan hackery.

When the character intones how we "used to" pass laws for moral reasons and cited the "example" of "waging wars on poverty not on poor people," I snorted.

We passed bullshit ineffectual "laws" to address poverty. And we have never waged wars ON poor people.

If you bury that kind of rancid bullshit in what could have otherwise been a fair-minded answer to the "question," the 3 1/2 minutes of honesty gets tragically diluted.

It was a Sorokin liberal bit of verbal masturbation wherein liberals are the enlightened good guys and conservatives are the thuggish bad guys.

Yeah. There is some painful truth in the speech. There's also a lot of crap.

I think it all depends on how you interpret what he is saying or what filter you look through to arrive at a conclusion. I did not get the same inferences from it that you did, and anybody who knows me is that I am about as modern American conservative as they come and have been railing against the welfare state for decades now. He didn't say so specifically, but within the whole of his message, I could easily see him seeing the so called "War on Poverty" as a war on the poor and a part of the problem, not the solution. I interpreted it that he started out by focusing on modern liberalism and wove that into the substance of his observation about what was wrong.

You are correct. Watching the rest of the episode clearly puts things in perspective that the Jeff Daniels character is not a Liberal. Or a Conservative.

Liability does not see that many policies of the Rightwing are indeed wars on poor people.

 

[Synthaholic]

What a pompous answer! And wrong in the trillion column too!

We have (had) a country with a Constitutionally limited central government and 50 sovereign states that were supposed to be incubators of ideas and ideals. How'd he miss that? That's what made us great.

The one nation on the planet set up to acknowledge and protect the rights of the individual.

The point, moron, is what happened to that country.

Here's what what wrong, Freddo

Says the creep who thinks it's just fine to exploit the death of a U.S. Border Agent for partisan political reasons.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The point, moron, is what happened to that country.

Here's what what wrong, Freddo

Says the creep who thinks it's just fine to exploit the death of a U.S. Border Agent for partisan political reasons.

Obama Fluffers are so dependable and defend Obama and Holder with passion and fervor you only see at Al Qaeda rallies

 

[Foxfyre]

I am going to ask again that the professional trolls or unpaid trolls or just those with short attention spans NOT derail this thread. If this falls within the realm of the moderators I would even request some help with that. This thread is not about the current or former occupants of the White House, It is not about political parties. It is not even about ideology.

It IS about qualities of character, conviction, purpose, moral centers, values, and attitudes that made America great, if you believe it was or is, or that do not make it great if you believe it is not.

 

[Foxfyre]

To follow up, the Founders of the country believed that only a people who governed themselves were a truly free people. Do you agree with that? Why or why not?

For most of the first 200 years of this country, the traditional family was the norm with very positive benefits from that. Fathers were expected to support their families if they were physically able to do so, parents were expected to parent their children and raise them up as responsible productive citizens, and there were principles and convictions that could not be compromised by people of exemplary character even if they had to act against their own interests.

This is what I think the speaker in the video was expressing.

Do you agree with that? Why? If not, why not?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

To follow up, the Founders of the country believed that only a people who governed themselves were a truly free people. Do you agree with that? Why or why not?

For most of the first 200 years of this country, the traditional family was the norm with very positive benefits from that. Fathers were expected to support their families if they were physically able to do so, parents were expected to parent their children and raise them up as responsible productive citizens, and there were principles and convictions that could not be compromised by people of exemplary character even if they had to act against their own interests.

This is what I think the speaker in the video was expressing.

Do you agree with that? Why? If not, why not?

That's what you wanted him to say, but what he said was Liberal blather about War on Poverty, etc. and mocked the idea that he USA is a "Free country"

Did you catch that? There are 180 "free" countries and so the USA is no big deal in that regard

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Also, I'm not responsible for Obama Fluffers trying to derail your thread, blame them

 

[Wry Catcher]

What a pompous answer! And wrong in the trillion column too!

We have (had) a country with a Constitutionally limited central government and 50 sovereign states that were supposed to be incubators of ideas and ideals. How'd he miss that? That's what made us great.

The one nation on the planet set up to acknowledge and protect the rights of the individual.

I think you didn't listen closely to what he said. Yes, the USA was unique among nations of the world, past and present. We were the great experiment. Our government would secure our rights and then leave us alone to govern ourselves, to live our lives as we saw fit, to achieve or fail according to the choices we made. And for up to about 200 years, that concept made us the most free, most prosperous, most innovative, most creative, most productive, most generous, and most forward thinking people that have ever lived.

We've made mistakes because we are an imperfect nation of imperfect people. But because of the freedom we have enjoyed, we have been able to recognize and correct the mistakes as we went along. We have fixed a lot of our worst mistakes and were working on others.

But somewhere along the way, we started shifting the concept of self governance back to an authoritarian central government and began allowing it more and more power to make our choices for us, to direct what sort of societies we would have, assign the rights we would be allowed, and to take more and more of our assets to swallow up in an ever growing and more cumbersome bureaucracy and using the rest to create winners and losers. It has corrupted our values, our priorities, and depleted our creative impulses.

It is THAT which so many of us wish to reverse and restore the concepts that made us the great nation that we are.

Is that what he said, or is that how you interpret what he said?