Is all taxation theft?

[loosecannon]

Some think that because we have a "representative" republic or democracy or whatever you want to call it that taxation is somehow voluntary or consensual. My question is do you think that taxation is voluntary? Now I'm not asking whether you think taxation is moral or immoral, just whether it's voluntary.

My opinion is that taxation is not voluntary because for something to be voluntary you have to be able to choose not to do it. Since you cannot choose not to pay taxes without being thrown in prison it is clearly not voluntary. loosecannon is of the opinion that because you sign a paper prior to employment that allows the government a portion of your income that you're consenting to being taxed, but I disagree. For one this doesn't cover all forms of taxation, and two you have no other choice but to sign this paper. The government has made it illegal to work without giving them a cut of your income so you are forced by law to sign this paper or you can't legally work. If you can't work you can't live so there's obviously no choice there.

Taxes are clearly coercive, not voluntary.

What do you think?

What our friend, Kennedy has failed to disclose is that whether or not taxes are voluntary wasn't the point he was arguing, at all. That's called a lie of omission.

What Kennedy actually was arguing is that in his opinion all taxes are theft. That was his argument.

The argument is analogous to saying that because you were born in a hospital or a seaside condo you have a god given right to live in that hospital, or condo, without ever paying for any of the services you consume.

We agree to pay taxers when we apply for a tax payer identification number and when we fill out and sign the application for our tax number our signature is an instrument of our legal consent to an obligation to be taxed on our income.

Kennedy argues that he should be able to live here, work here and benefit from all the blessings of citizenship within our nation but that he should still be able to choose not to assume any of the responsibilities included in that deal.

That is what he believes and I am sure he will be happy to say as much again.

If Kennedy doesn't want to honor the contract he signed with our government he is free to leave, move and work elsewhere, and he will be liberated from the responsibilities of US citizenship as well as the rewards.

You go girl!

 

[Madeline]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

 

[Neser Boha]

Some think that because we have a "representative" republic or democracy or whatever you want to call it that taxation is somehow voluntary or consensual. My question is do you think that taxation is voluntary? Now I'm not asking whether you think taxation is moral or immoral, just whether it's voluntary.

My opinion is that taxation is not voluntary because for something to be voluntary you have to be able to choose not to do it. Since you cannot choose not to pay taxes without being thrown in prison it is clearly not voluntary. loosecannon is of the opinion that because you sign a paper prior to employment that allows the government a portion of your income that you're consenting to being taxed, but I disagree. For one this doesn't cover all forms of taxation, and two you have no other choice but to sign this paper. The government has made it illegal to work without giving them a cut of your income so you are forced by law to sign this paper or you can't legally work. If you can't work you can't live so there's obviously no choice there.

Taxes are clearly coercive, not voluntary.

What do you think?

What our friend, Kennedy has failed to disclose is that whether or not taxes are voluntary wasn't the point he was arguing, at all. That's called a lie of omission.

What Kennedy actually was arguing is that in his opinion all taxes are theft. That was his argument.

The argument is analogous to saying that because you were born in a hospital or a seaside condo you have a god given right to live in that hospital, or condo, without ever paying for any of the services you consume.

We agree to pay taxers when we apply for a tax payer identification number and when we fill out and sign the application for our tax number our signature is an instrument of our legal consent to an obligation to be taxed on our income.

Kennedy argues that he should be able to live here, work here and benefit from all the blessings of citizenship within our nation but that he should still be able to choose not to assume any of the responsibilities included in that deal.

That is what he believes and I am sure he will be happy to say as much again.

If Kennedy doesn't want to honor the contract he signed with our government he is free to leave, move and work elsewhere, and he will be liberated from the responsibilities of US citizenship as well as the rewards.

You go girl!

Yawn. Yeah, if you are willing and capable to build your own roads, sanitize your own water, provide electricity and heat for yourself, not to mention food and protection ... sure, then you can opt out of paying taxes and go your merry way. NOBODY can do that though ... so just get over it already! We - the society - have progressed since the hunter-gatherer status and this is what we've come up with so far ...

The old anti-tax tripe is so damn stupid and immature I can't take it seriously anymore ... By the end of college, you should be over it.

Not addressing anyone in particular, just ranting ....

 

[WillowTree]

Here's the question I want answered. If 50% of the population can get representation without taxation is it fair that the rest of us have to pay?

 

[Neser Boha]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

There are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the US while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

I don't recall whether I officially said that or not, but it's true. Given the option I would not pay taxes.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

 

[Neser Boha]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

I don't recall whether I officially said that or not, but it's true. Given the option I would not pay taxes.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

In other words, you're willing to steal from society. You are fine with theft as long as you're the one thieving. Seriously, rethink this.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

I don't recall whether I officially said that or not, but it's true. Given the option I would not pay taxes.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

In other words, you're willing to steal from society.

Government =/= Society

And it's not stealing from government since the government is stealing the money from me. I earned the money, not the government.

 

[Ragnar]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

There are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the US while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

There's other parts of the world?

Link?

 

[Neser Boha]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

There are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the US while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

There's other parts of the world?

Link?

LOL .. that was pretty funny.

 

[Madeline]

I don't recall whether I officially said that or not, but it's true. Given the option I would not pay taxes.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

In other words, you're willing to steal from society.

Government =/= Society

And it's not stealing from government since the government is stealing the money from me. I earned the money, not the government.

No, Kevin. Without government, your earning capacity would be zero.

 

[Meister]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

There are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the US while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

While looking at it....it may very well look prevalent, but the true sentiment of that would be with the fringe in this country. I think most people are just pissed how our government spends the taxes plus running up a deficit doing it, and lash out in this way.

 

[Neser Boha]

I don't recall whether I officially said that or not, but it's true. Given the option I would not pay taxes.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

In other words, you're willing to steal from society.

Government =/= Society

And it's not stealing from government since the government is stealing the money from me. I earned the money, not the government.

:facepalm:

Government is a distribution mechanism of tax money. The roads you drive on were paid for by those taxes. The water sanitation plants were paid for by those taxes. All the infrastructure, safety, rule of law, etc. - that make life possible for you - was paid for by the taxes. By not paying taxes, yet still using all of these services, you are in effect STEALING. You're a scrub. You're the little brother that lives in momma's basement never paying a dime for food or rent and just uses everyone elses's shit up.

Got it?

 

[Neser Boha]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

There are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the US while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

While looking at it....it may very well look prevalent, but the true sentiment of that would be with the fringe in this country. I think most people are just pissed how our government spends the taxes plus running up a deficit doing it, and lash out in this way.

You're right. I lived in the deep south, so my view is definitely skewed. Also, I can totally understand and identify with being frustrated with the way the money is spent ... definitely in the U.S. True that.

 

[WillowTree]

what really took me aback was the sentence "if taxes were voluntary, i wouldn't pay." i'm paraphrasing and kevin may not have written it. But i am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

there are about as many idiots in the world as there are scruple-less individuals who would be more than happy to let the whole society go to hell just to save a few bucks. Some people see living in a democracy as being able to be ungrateful little egotistic shits that don't give a flying fuck about anyone else but themselves. It's funny how prevalent is this sentiment seems to be in the us while in other parts of the world it's seen only at the fringes of society (really high up and really low down).

while looking at it....it may very well look prevalent, but the true sentiment of that would be with the fringe in this country. I think most people are just pissed how our government spends the taxes plus running up a deficit doing it, and lash out in this way.

bullseye!

 

[loosecannon]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

Oh he said as much all day yesterday.

 

[ConHog]

So to summarize:

If given the chance Kevin would mooch of me? Why am I not even a little bit surprised that there are people like that?

 

[elvis]

What really took me aback was the sentence "If taxes were voluntary, I wouldn't pay." I'm paraphrasing and Kevin may not have written it. But I am astounded that anyone would readily admit that if he had the chance, he scam off all his fellow citizens.

As for loosecannon, this same post has been posted three times in three separate threads. I believe that's spamming.

Tissue?

 

[shintao]

Here's the question I want answered. If 50% of the population can get representation without taxation is it fair that the rest of us have to pay?

I am thinking that citizens in general do not want to pay taxes. They just want to bitch when other people manage not to pay taxes. And they wish to be just like the non payers in society.

Yet some here, think paying taxes is a "patriotic duty," therefore those that do no pay taxes are not patriots of America. IF that is the case, why aren't these non payers identified and hunted down and mocked and publicly abused. Why aren't corporations boycotted and disenfranchised by the tax paying consumers.

Why aren't those who do pay taxes in America, elevated in some way, given a reward for paying, given something forcefully taken from the non payers? That seems fair to me. That seems it would make the tax payers feel better.

Another way at getting justice is to learn en-mass how to use the available loop holes in the tax codes, and everybody strive to use them. Perhaps when the tax revenue falls off, the congress & IRS might admit defeat for the rich, so equality is provided.

 

[WillowTree]

Here's the question I want answered. If 50% of the population can get representation without taxation is it fair that the rest of us have to pay?

I am thinking that citizens in general do not want to pay taxes. They just want to bitch when other people manage not to pay taxes. And they wish to be just like the non payers in society.

Yet some here, think paying taxes is a "patriotic duty," therefore those that do no pay taxes are not patriots of America. IF that is the case, why aren't these non payers identified and hunted down and mocked and publicly abused. Why aren't corporations boycotted and disenfranchised by the tax paying consumers.

Why aren't those who do pay taxes in America, elevated in some way, given a reward for paying, given something forcefully taken from the non payers? That seems fair to me. That seems it would make the tax payers feel better.

Another way at getting justice is to learn en-mass how to use the available loop holes in the tax codes, and everybody strive to use them. Perhaps when the tax revenue falls off, the congress & IRS might admit defeat for the rich, so equality is provided.

What? What? and What? What percentage of the FEDERAL INCOME TAX do the rich pay? Do you Know?