Is abortion legalized murder?

[JohnA]

You do know that most Libertarian's view on abortions are that it is the woman's right to do what she wants with her body as part of their general support for individual rights? Very few do not support this.

However, having the view that abortion is murder, to me, fits more for individual rights seeing that the unborn are also individuals. When does one's right outweigh an other's right? I would say when an individual wants to 'kill' due to convenience.

Also, masturbation and recreational sex would not be murder due to the fact that the sperm and egg were never combined. And as to In Vitro Fertilization, this has nothing to do with 'killing', but rather helping women who otherwise can not have a baby. Sure something can go wrong as with any pregnancy, but it is not meant just to 'kill' what otherwise would be a life.

thats where you are wrong cant have it both ways
the unborn are not in law classed as A PERSON until they have left the birth canal and a *birth certificate is issued BECUASE A FETUS MOVES AND BREATHS DONT MAKE IT A COMPLETE HUMAN and more than a moth is a butterfly
A birth certifucate states the date and time of birth( OF A HUMAN) for ALL LEGAL MATTERS cus you wish it to be otherwise DONT MAKE IT SO .

the premise for deciding that a embroys /fetus is a * human* derives from the religious idea that we have a *soul* there for the embroys distroyed (not used ) in the process called vitro fertilisation also have a soul so IN in your assessment they are also HUMAN .

thing is most into fertilization procedures are performed on those rich enough to afford it .
so in the eyes of the religious wacko its okay as most of them of then would be christians .

once more the hypocritical right show where they really stand

So in other words you care more about legal defintions than biological ones? You can call yourself a libertarian, but the fact is 'us' libertarians are pretty split on the issue of abortion and it pretty much centers arund the definition of a person or human being. You talk about legal defintions and how since a baby has none prior to birth it's okay to abort it. How is that any more completely aribrtrary than then when one is legally defined as an adult?

yes the abortion issue is the most prominent issue that libertarian differ on and its as you say defined by when you think a *person * becomes one ,

the question of being a adult does very according to the use of the person .for fighting for your country 18 seems to be okay. for sex it varies from one state to another 16 in some 17 or more. in others smoking( a drug ) seems to be allowed at a earlier age than alcohol (a drug ) so the issue of when you are or are not a adult is not clearly defined
we could go with many more examples of discrepancy *when* is one a adult

the issue of when is a fetus a *human* is clear cut it is when its conceived? or when it is born ?and i dont see a compromise here
let me ask this on what grounds do you consider a fetus to be one and equal to a living person ????

 

[Bern80]

thats where you are wrong cant have it both ways
the unborn are not in law classed as A PERSON until they have left the birth canal and a *birth certificate is issued BECUASE A FETUS MOVES AND BREATHS DONT MAKE IT A COMPLETE HUMAN and more than a moth is a butterfly
A birth certifucate states the date and time of birth( OF A HUMAN) for ALL LEGAL MATTERS cus you wish it to be otherwise DONT MAKE IT SO .

the premise for deciding that a embroys /fetus is a * human* derives from the religious idea that we have a *soul* there for the embroys distroyed (not used ) in the process called vitro fertilisation also have a soul so IN in your assessment they are also HUMAN .

thing is most into fertilization procedures are performed on those rich enough to afford it .
so in the eyes of the religious wacko its okay as most of them of then would be christians .

once more the hypocritical right show where they really stand

So in other words you care more about legal defintions than biological ones? You can call yourself a libertarian, but the fact is 'us' libertarians are pretty split on the issue of abortion and it pretty much centers arund the definition of a person or human being. You talk about legal defintions and how since a baby has none prior to birth it's okay to abort it. How is that any more completely aribrtrary than then when one is legally defined as an adult?

yes the abortion issue is the most prominent issue that libertarian differ on and its as you say defined by when you think a *person * becomes one ,

the question of being a adult does very according to the use of the person .for fighting for your country 18 seems to be okay. for sex it varies from one state to another 16 in some 17 or more. in others smoking( a drug ) seems to be allowed at a earlier age than alcohol (a drug ) so the issue of when you are or are not a adult is not clearly defined
we could go with many more examples of discrepancy *when* is one a adult

the issue of when is a fetus a *human* is clear cut it is when its conceived? or when it is born ?and i dont see a compromise here
let me ask this on what grounds do you consider a fetus to be one and equal to a living person ????

It is a gray area. I believe, based on logical observation, that a fetus becomes a person at some point in the womb. To me it is just as ridiculous for the extreme right to claim you are killing a human being anytime, including immediately after conception, as it is for the left to claim you aren't kiliing a human being immediately before actual birth. Which is why I tend to agree with at least the part of Roe v Wade that, until when a human being is a human being become more specifically defined, stipulates abortions can not be done after the fetus is 'viable'.

 

[Mr. H.]

This is one pissed off erstwhile father...

Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard - Yahoo! News

ALAMOGORDO, N.M. – A New Mexico man's decision to lash out with a billboard ad saying his ex-girlfriend had an abortion against his wishes has touched off a legal debate over free speech and privacy rights.

The sign on Alamogordo's main thoroughfare shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz holding the outline of an infant. The text reads, "This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"

 

[American Cowboy]

This is one pissed off erstwhile father...

Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard - Yahoo! News

ALAMOGORDO, N.M. – A New Mexico man's decision to lash out with a billboard ad saying his ex-girlfriend had an abortion against his wishes has touched off a legal debate over free speech and privacy rights.

The sign on Alamogordo's main thoroughfare shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz holding the outline of an infant. The text reads, "This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"

Murderous bitch!!!

 

[American Cowboy]

60% say abortion legalized murder so far. Only 20% disagree so far.

Interusting

 

[rdean]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

Why do you care? Republicans politicians want to starve children to fund tax cuts. Is the plan to make them "suffer" first? Seems overly cruel.

 

[syrenn]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

 

[Liberty]

interesting results, only 3 say its not.

 

[Liberty]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

we aren't talking about "life" in general, we are talking about HUMAN life. There are many things that are ALIVE that feed off hosts. Some of which are in your intestines right now (don't freak out, they are good bacteria).

 

[American Cowboy]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

The baby is alive and kicking in the womb unless you kill it

 

[syrenn]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

we aren't talking about "life" in general, we are talking about HUMAN life. There are many things that are ALIVE that feed off hosts. Some of which are in your intestines right now (don't freak out, they are good bacteria).

Yes i know what we are talking about. I also know that other organisms live off and on us. Right down to the bugs in your eye lashes and the mitochondria in ever cell of your body. They are all parasites in a fashion. Most are a symbolic relationship however. Both parties agree to have each other and to help keep each other alive.

It is human tissue. That tissue is alive...just as every cell in your body is alive. That does not mean every cell in your body has a stand alone life of its own. Remove any tissue from your body..sit it on the table and see how long it lives.

Again....in my opinion.. it is not a stand alone life. It is not murder. You can not take a life from something that does not have a life of its own.

 

[syrenn]

The only way to stop the baby from living is to kill it.

Is abortion legalized murder?

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

The baby is alive and kicking in the womb unless you kill it

Then C-section it out and keep it for yourself.

 

[American Cowboy]

In my opinion it is not "a life" until it can BE a stand alone life once removed from its host.


No it is not murder...as it is not a stand alone life of its own. So long as it is dependent on a host to preform its bodily functions....it is not a "life"

The baby is alive and kicking in the womb unless you kill it

Then C-section it out and keep it for yourself.

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

 

[syrenn]

The baby is alive and kicking in the womb unless you kill it

Then C-section it out and keep it for yourself.

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

I give you parents credit for fostering. I do however feel that for the most part fostering is a money making business for the fosters. If all pro life people each had several adopted children then i think then can talk about it being so great just having women give up babies. But sadly that is not the case.

The thing you aren't getting... even though that baby was found in a dumpster (glad it was found) it was a stand alone life. It did not require a host to have a life of its own. Would that same bunch of cells make it the same way at 3 or 4 months?

 

[Steve Hanson]

Ridiculous.

I suppose you're just a baby killer then?

At what point do you stop with this nonsense? Liberatarian? In what sense? You want the government involved in reproductive rights? Or lording over a woman's body? Oh wait. How about Masturbation? Is that mass murder? How about In Vitro fertilization? Is that murder too? Recreational sex? Is that murder too?

Amazing.

None of those other things involve taking a life. What kind of argument its that?

 

[American Cowboy]

Then C-section it out and keep it for yourself.

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

I give you parents credit for fostering. I do however feel that for the most part fostering is a money making business for the fosters. If all pro life people each had several adopted children then i think then can talk about it being so great just having women give up babies. But sadly that is not the case.

The thing you aren't getting... even though that baby was found in a dumpster (glad it was found) it was a stand alone life. It did not require a host to have a life of its own. Would that same bunch of cells make it the same way at 3 or 4 months?

My folks did not need the money. They wanted to give some children a better life. They spent more on every child they took in than they recieved. My mother loved children. She was truly caring. Michele Bachmann has 23 foster children. I know this type of person. She is amazing too!

I don't care about stand alone life. The baby is alive in the womb until you murder it, bottomline. You can justify it if it makes you feel better.

 

[Steve Hanson]

Then C-section it out and keep it for yourself.

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

I give you parents credit for fostering. I do however feel that for the most part fostering is a money making business for the fosters. If all pro life people each had several adopted children then i think then can talk about it being so great just having women give up babies. But sadly that is not the case.

The thing you aren't getting... even though that baby was found in a dumpster (glad it was found) it was a stand alone life. It did not require a host to have a life of its own. Would that same bunch of cells make it the same way at 3 or 4 months?

I guess ypu could argue that any one who needs dialysis, or any form of life support is not stand alone too. You could even take that further, being on medications or requiring an operation. Lot's of babies aborted would survive outside the womb wiht medical devices. It's a life being taken.

 

[syrenn]

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

I give you parents credit for fostering. I do however feel that for the most part fostering is a money making business for the fosters. If all pro life people each had several adopted children then i think then can talk about it being so great just having women give up babies. But sadly that is not the case.

The thing you aren't getting... even though that baby was found in a dumpster (glad it was found) it was a stand alone life. It did not require a host to have a life of its own. Would that same bunch of cells make it the same way at 3 or 4 months?

My folks did not need the money. They wanted to give some children a better life. They spent more on every child they took in than they recieved. My mother loved children. She was truly caring. Michele Bachmann has 23 foster children. I know this type of person. She is amazing too!

I don't care about stand alone life. The baby is alive in the womb until you murder it, bottomline. You can justify it if it makes you feel better.

I did not say all fosters look at these children as money makers.... a good deal of them do however.

I know, and you are entitled to you opinion. I am not trying to change your mine. Just as you would not be able to change mine. That is the bottom line.

 

[syrenn]

My parents had a foster child or two in the house at all times when I was growing up. I still keep in touch with many of them. One was taken from a dumpster. I know they are happy to be alive. There are many families on waiting lists to adopt babies. If not an orphanage is a better alternative than a coffin.

I give you parents credit for fostering. I do however feel that for the most part fostering is a money making business for the fosters. If all pro life people each had several adopted children then i think then can talk about it being so great just having women give up babies. But sadly that is not the case.

The thing you aren't getting... even though that baby was found in a dumpster (glad it was found) it was a stand alone life. It did not require a host to have a life of its own. Would that same bunch of cells make it the same way at 3 or 4 months?

I guess ypu could argue that any one who needs dialysis, or any form of life support is not stand alone too. You could even take that further, being on medications or requiring an operation. Lot's of babies aborted would survive outside the womb wiht medical devices. It's a life being taken.

Do i say anything about denying those 3 month cells life support? What it is ...is a life not being given.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think we should change the law. I say we put the doctor and the mother on trial for murder.

It’s not a ‘law’ that can be changed via legislative action, it’s a Constitutional right, the right to privacy – the Constitutional right to privacy compels the government to stay out of the private lives of Americans. Oddly, that’s something conservatives are supposed to advocate.

I'm a conservative libertarian and I'd call abortion first degree murder....

Abortion should be considered Murder. I consider it such. No one has the right to commit Murder, so it is not a "right". It is that easy. The baby has a right to live.

And you’re both entitled to your opinions, no matter how uninformed.

Fortunately and thankfully we’re a Constitutional Republic, the majority doesn’t determine who will or who will not have his civil rights.

Moreover, simply throwing doctors and women in jail won’t stop abortion – it will drive it underground where you can’t see it. Those truly serious about stopping abortion will quit wasting time trying to outlaw it – and violating one’s Constitutional right to privacy in the process – and instead get to work finding ways to prevent it.