Is a racial insult a valid defense for homicide?

[catzmeow]

I don't get the insult?

Maybe it reminded the suspect of this song?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UePtoxDhJSw]YouTube - ‪Wiz Khalifa - Black And Yellow [Official Music Video]‬‏[/ame]

 

[martybegan]

Racial comment sparked fatal punch in Las Vegas casino, say cops - Crimesider - CBS News

It isnt murder thats for sure. The racial slur is not a defense, but it is a mitigating circumstance. The defendant did not intend the blow to be fatal. This has Manslaughter two (if its in the juristiction) written all over it. The intent was not death but harm, and it was instigated. You are still responsible, however for the outcome, which was a homicde.

I agree. But still, I have to wonder about a guy that could get so enraged over the comment being reported that'd he'd need to punch the guy at all.

True, but his intent was probably to open a can of whoop ass, and be done with it. I doubt he was intending on homicde.

There is a large gap for most people between wanting to slap someone around and wanting to kill them, he just had the bad luck of taking a guy out with 1 punch. It doesnt excuse the action and he should go to jail, but not for as long as intentional murder, or murder commited in the action of another crime.

 

[Ravi]

What was racist about this comment

"The altercation began when Hawkins took offense to the Massie's comment about "a black man in a yellow shirt," police said. Hawkins reportedly felled the Utah man with a single punch to the face."

Not a thing.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Killing is killing. What was it about the comment that was racist ? What else happened that we dont know about ?

 

[catzmeow]

Killing is killing.

In the court system, it isn't nearly that simplistic.

Am I a killer if l kill someone who is trying to kill me?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

A person killing another person is murder. Play semantics with court TV bull shit, but it dont change the fact, that people killing people is murder.

 

[Si modo]

What was racist about this comment

"The altercation began when Hawkins took offense to the Massie's comment about "a black man in a yellow shirt," police said. Hawkins reportedly felled the Utah man with a single punch to the face."

The shirt was really pink?

I'm trying to figure that out, too. Where's the racism and where is the insult? And, since when are words that aren't a threat met with physical violence a justification for killing?

 

[Ravi]

Oh, I didn't realize the perp was from Florida.

In Florida, it is a valid defense that if you feel threatened you can kill the person threatening you. If this had happened in Florida the guy would probably not face jail time.

Unequal laws. Should be interesting.

 

[martybegan]

A person killing another person is murder. Play semantics with court TV bull shit, but it dont change the fact, that people killing people is murder.

Its a homicide, not nessisarily murder. Murder is an actual criminal charge, with requirements to be met for conviction. Homicide is a catch all for any death caused by a persons action, lack of action, indiferrence, etc.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

More of the story here.

Benjamin G. Hawkins, 37, of Gainesville jailed in Vegas casino beating death | Gainesville.com

Sounds like two drunk tourist running there mouths. Hawkins will get some time. Maybe serve five or ten years in Carson or something. Something similar to when a drunk driver commits murder.

 

[martybegan]

Oh, I didn't realize the perp was from Florida.

In Florida, it is a valid defense that if you feel threatened you can kill the person threatening you. If this had happened in Florida the guy would probably not face jail time.

Unequal laws. Should be interesting.

It isnt that simple. In florida you dont have the requirement to retreat, it doesnt mean you can actively go and just shoot someone/punch someone down.

The person also has to be attempting to threaten bodily harm, not just insulting you.

The difference between the required retreat and not requiring retreat is given by this example.

Say you are in a dead end alley, and someone is charging at you. in all juristictions you are then permitted to fire on them, as you have no real escape options and there is a chance of bodily harm.

Change it to an open alley, where you have a method of escape. In this case if the law requires you to retreat you have to, exhausting all options before using deadly force.

That being said, if the other person is also armed with a firearm, then your requirement to retreat is not really enforceable, as any flight would leave you open to gunfire.

 

[Article 15]

Hard to buy the self defense angle. Too bad the security video isn't public.

I wonder if the defense will go for an incitement defense (the idea being that there aer some words that are so inflammatory that they provoke an immediate emotional reaction that can lead to a breach of peace.

I doubt the guy knew when he punched Massie that Massie would die from a single punch.

IMO, the incitement defense is bullshit to begin with. But regardless, "black man in a yellow shirt?" Really?

Canuck fan.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Killing is killing.

In the court system, it isn't nearly that simplistic.

Am I a killer if l kill someone who is trying to kill me?

Sadly that is true. The act of murder can be degraded to Manslaughter or negligent homicide. It is disgusting, and one of the things I hate about our country.

 

[catzmeow]

Actually, I think that Florida's law is primarily a Castle Doctrine law, which means that it applies only in the home/residence. If someone comes on my property, and I think they mean me harm, I can shoot them. I don't believe that it applies in this scenario.

Florida Castle Doctrine

I could be wrong, though. There may be other laws on the book that would apply more specifically. This is just the one I'm familiar with.

 

[catzmeow]

Killing is killing.

In the court system, it isn't nearly that simplistic.

Am I a killer if l kill someone who is trying to kill me?

Sadly that is true. The act of murder can be degraded to Manslaughter or negligent homicide. It is disgusting, and one of the things I hate about our country.

So, you think that I should be tried for murder for killing someone in self defense? The reason that there is flexibility on these charges is that many homicides aren't black/white scenarios.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Killing is killing.

In the court system, it isn't nearly that simplistic.

Am I a killer if l kill someone who is trying to kill me?

Yes you are. Does it make you wrong ? No, but it is sad that it had to be done.

 

[Ravi]

Oh, I didn't realize the perp was from Florida.

In Florida, it is a valid defense that if you feel threatened you can kill the person threatening you. If this had happened in Florida the guy would probably not face jail time.

Unequal laws. Should be interesting.

It isnt that simple. In florida you dont have the requirement to retreat, it doesnt mean you can actively go and just shoot someone/punch someone down.

The person also has to be attempting to threaten bodily harm, not just insulting you.

The difference between the required retreat and not requiring retreat is given by this example.

Say you are in a dead end alley, and someone is charging at you. in all juristictions you are then permitted to fire on them, as you have no real escape options and there is a chance of bodily harm.

Change it to an open alley, where you have a method of escape. In this case if the law requires you to retreat you have to, exhausting all options before using deadly force.

That being said, if the other person is also armed with a firearm, then your requirement to retreat is not really enforceable, as any flight would leave you open to gunfire.

Florida's new "Stand your Ground" law goes into effect Saturday. The law says rather than run away, people who fear for their lives have the right to stand and shoot back when they feel threatened - no matter if they're at home, or on the street, or in their cars.

'Stand Your Ground' law goes into effect Saturday | HeraldTribune.com

If the guy can convince the court that he felt threatened he would walk in Florida.

And how does the court prove he didn't feel threatened?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

In the court system, it isn't nearly that simplistic.

Am I a killer if l kill someone who is trying to kill me?

Sadly that is true. The act of murder can be degraded to Manslaughter or negligent homicide. It is disgusting, and one of the things I hate about our country.

So, you think that I should be tried for murder for killing someone in self defense? The reason that there is flexibility on these charges is that many homicides aren't black/white scenarios.

There was no self defense in this case. It was a drunk who did not like being referred to as "That Black guy in a yellow shirt".

 

[martybegan]

Oh, I didn't realize the perp was from Florida.

In Florida, it is a valid defense that if you feel threatened you can kill the person threatening you. If this had happened in Florida the guy would probably not face jail time.

Unequal laws. Should be interesting.

It isnt that simple. In florida you dont have the requirement to retreat, it doesnt mean you can actively go and just shoot someone/punch someone down.

The person also has to be attempting to threaten bodily harm, not just insulting you.

The difference between the required retreat and not requiring retreat is given by this example.

Say you are in a dead end alley, and someone is charging at you. in all juristictions you are then permitted to fire on them, as you have no real escape options and there is a chance of bodily harm.

Change it to an open alley, where you have a method of escape. In this case if the law requires you to retreat you have to, exhausting all options before using deadly force.

That being said, if the other person is also armed with a firearm, then your requirement to retreat is not really enforceable, as any flight would leave you open to gunfire.

Florida's new "Stand your Ground" law goes into effect Saturday. The law says rather than run away, people who fear for their lives have the right to stand and shoot back when they feel threatened - no matter if they're at home, or on the street, or in their cars.

'Stand Your Ground' law goes into effect Saturday | HeraldTribune.com

If the guy can convince the court that he felt threatened he would walk in Florida.

And how does the court prove he didn't feel threatened?

Its up to a jury of 12 to figure that out. It also requires the person, if not armed with a firearm to be advancing on you before you can fire.

 

[WillowTree]

Hard to buy the self defense angle. Too bad the security video isn't public.

I wonder if the defense will go for an incitement defense (the idea being that there aer some words that are so inflammatory that they provoke an immediate emotional reaction that can lead to a breach of peace.

I doubt the guy knew when he punched Massie that Massie would die from a single punch.

Murder is murder. Dude go's to prison.[/QUOTE]

Wanna bet? Like Casey Anthony went.