Is a business allowed to violate civil rights?

[Intense]

You both are so full of shit. The only thing you represent is what is wrong with our society. You and your kind should be fully liable for the damage you cause. You undermine Justice, decency, and the rule of law, with no regard except for covering up predatory crime. Very diplomatically put. News flash, when an adult is the father, it is rape. Who's paternity are you protecting by supporting an abortion without the parents even aware of the pregnancy? Who are you protecting??? You are frauds. You should not have children of your own. You should not work around children at all. You fail at masking your true intent.

 

[Anguille]

Like I said, Intense. You have issues.

 

[Intense]

Like I said, Intense. You have issues.

I have issues with Predators. You again are advocating illegal behavior. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[kurtsprincess]

While neither abortion nor pregnancy is 100% safe. Abortion far out ranks pregnancy carried to term as the safer choice. I can't imagine why any parent would try to force or coerce their child into becoming a parent but it does happen. I'd guess that any parent-child relationship where a child was afraid to tell their parent they need to have an abortion is probably already a pretty messed up relationship.
In all fairness, parents who force or coerce their children into having abortions against their will are just as bad, But most are probably well meaning and thinking only of the child's future. Though I'm sure they are also considering their own future responsibilities as grandparents. What I am completely baffled by are parents who put their kids through a pregnancy and then tell the kid to give it up for adoption to strangers. How heartless!

It's not about forcing or coercing a child to become a parent. It is about helping your child not become someone who makes a rash decision about their unborn child - helped along by someone outside the family who is not part of the family unit. A stranger, like yourself, has no idea what the home life is like, not what the values are being taught at home, nor what the father of the unborn child desires. Why should you be allowed to have influence over such a profound decision that will affect every person in the family and yet have no affect on you in the long run? What supreme arrogance it is to assume that you, a stranger, would know what is best in this situation.

If you feel compelled to do something, then report the situation to child advocacy personnel if you must.....but don't further complicate a family matter by helping a child keep secrets from her parents.

 

[Anguille]

There must be something in the water in Queens.

 

[paperview]

To get back on topic....
has anyone mentioned yet Denny's paid out settlements totaling $54 million to over 300,000 people who said they were racially discriminated against at Denny's restaurants?

 

[Intense]

Funny, during my hitch-Hiking years in the early 80's, Denny's was shelter from the storm. Nice place to stay warm, dry, and caffeinated until dawn. This is sad to read. Sort of reminds me of some experiences at Friendly's on Long Island.

In 1993, Denny's restaurant chain fell under an uncomfortable spotlight as it faced the first of several lawsuits and thousands
of claims of racial discrimination of its customers. San Jose, California was the site of the first incident, when several black
teenagers were refused service unless they agreed to pay in advance (Smith, 1996). The following year more and more issues
came crashing down on the popular casual dining chain. One of the most well-known cases was that of six Asian-Americans
of Syracuse University. The students visited a Denny's restaurant late at night and waited over 30 minutes for service. As
white patrons were regularly seated and waited on, these six students were kept waiting. When they complained, they were
forcibly ejected from the establishment by two security guards. Outside, they were beaten by a mob of white customers that
spilled out of the restaurant while guards stood by and did nothing. These six students were pushed, shoved, jeered, and
racially insulted, and not a single law enforcer present did anything to stop it. Three black students were threatened with
mace by guards when they attempted to aid the Asian-Americans. A white student accompanying the group was also
threatened. Two of these students were knocked unconscious during the assault ("Students Accuse," 1997).
On the same day that the first lawsuit was settled, six black Secret Service agents visited a Denny's restaurant in Annapolis,
Maryland, and were forced to wait an hour for service while their white companions were seated promptly and were waited
on with second and third helpings (Guillermo, 1997). Countless other incidents similar in nature occurred throughout the
Denny's chain. One Sacramento resident, a white male, was seated promptly at a Denny's restaurant. When his wife, a black
woman, came to join him, the waitress's demeanor altered drastically. She slammed down a plate of spaghetti in front of the
black woman, splattering her blouse with tomato sauce. Another black Denny's customer, Douglas McNeal, was told that he
and his friends had to pay for their meals at the same time they ordered their food. McNeal observed a white couple order and
pay up at the counter after their meal, as usual. He questioned the waitress: "We asked the waitress about it and she said some
black guys had been in earlier who made a scene and walked out without paying their bill. So the manager now wanted all
blacks to pay up front" (Ferraro, 1995).
These are only a few examples of the discrimination that Denny's displayed. Thousands of black customers have claimed
similar suits.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/bh/badco/dennysgbu.pdf

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

You both are so full of shit. The only thing you represent is what is wrong with our society. You and your kind should be fully liable for the damage you cause. You undermine Justice, decency, and the rule of law, with no regard except for covering up predatory crime. Very diplomatically put. News flash, when an adult is the father, it is rape. Who's paternity are you protecting by supporting an abortion without the parents even aware of the pregnancy? Who are you protecting??? You are frauds. You should not have children of your own. You should not work around children at all. You fail at masking your true intent.

I am in no way advocating adults having sex with children. I am just aware of the reality that 16/17 year old have sex with each other, act stupidly, and sometimes get pregnant. Who am I protecting? I am protecting the right of the girl to have an abortion or not have an abortion as SHE sees fit, not as her parents see fit. Also, having to inform the parents can open the child up to abuse from some parents.

 

[Intense]

You both are so full of shit. The only thing you represent is what is wrong with our society. You and your kind should be fully liable for the damage you cause. You undermine Justice, decency, and the rule of law, with no regard except for covering up predatory crime. Very diplomatically put. News flash, when an adult is the father, it is rape. Who's paternity are you protecting by supporting an abortion without the parents even aware of the pregnancy? Who are you protecting??? You are frauds. You should not have children of your own. You should not work around children at all. You fail at masking your true intent.

I am in no way advocating adults having sex with children. I am just aware of the reality that 16/17 year old have sex with each other, act stupidly, and sometimes get pregnant. Who am I protecting? I am protecting the right of the girl to have an abortion or not have an abortion as SHE sees fit, not as her parents see fit. Also, having to inform the parents can open the child up to abuse from some parents.

How about 13, 14, 15??? What if the daddy is her 45 year old science teacher??? What if she was raped??? Who are you to keep the parents in the dark??? We have been asked to stay on topic. Start a thread if you want to talk more.

 

[JBeukema]

No, either you are intentionally putting words in my mouth or you were so enraged by my comment that children are not property that you misread my posts.

Just so you understand that a child's fear of rejection when owning up to being with a child of her own is No reason to keep the parents in the dark. In such a case, this, by circumstance, is a part of the growing up process. Pluses and minuses of what comes next is secondary. Does the Parent have Rights? Yes. Does the Child have Rights? Yes. Does the Doctor play a role in advising? Yes. Should You aid in a cover up? No. Refer it to the Court, if there is genuine concern for the welfare of the child.

It is a medical procedure and the child should be allowed to pursue an abortion if they want to despite all of the objections the parents may have. So really, informing the parents is irrelevant as ultimately it should be the decision of the person whos having the abortion, a legal medical procedure.

same as a rhinoplasty...

 

[manifold]

To get back on topic....
has anyone mentioned yet Denny's paid out settlements totaling $54 million to over 300,000 people who said they were racially discriminated against at Denny's restaurants?

They pussed out.

Given the evidence, I'm not convinced they did anything wrong.

 

[paperview]

To get back on topic....
has anyone mentioned yet Denny's paid out settlements totaling $54 million to over 300,000 people who said they were racially discriminated against at Denny's restaurants?

They pussed out.

Given the evidence, I'm not convinced they did anything wrong.

Maybe you weren't, but juries and judges for well over a quarter of a million people were.

Amazing you can make that judgment without even KNOWING any of the evidence.

At least Intense was fair enough to look it up and provide some insight:

============
Intense: This is sad to read. Sort of reminds me of some experiences at Friendly's on Long Island.

In 1993, Denny's restaurant chain fell under an uncomfortable spotlight as it faced the first of several lawsuits and thousands
of claims of racial discrimination of its customers. San Jose, California was the site of the first incident, when several black
teenagers were refused service unless they agreed to pay in advance (Smith, 1996). The following year more and more issues
came crashing down on the popular casual dining chain. One of the most well-known cases was that of six Asian-Americans
of Syracuse University. The students visited a Denny's restaurant late at night and waited over 30 minutes for service. As
white patrons were regularly seated and waited on, these six students were kept waiting. When they complained, they were
forcibly ejected from the establishment by two security guards. Outside, they were beaten by a mob of white customers that
spilled out of the restaurant while guards stood by and did nothing. These six students were pushed, shoved, jeered, and
racially insulted, and not a single law enforcer present did anything to stop it. Three black students were threatened with
mace by guards when they attempted to aid the Asian-Americans. A white student accompanying the group was also
threatened. Two of these students were knocked unconscious during the assault ("Students Accuse," 1997).
On the same day that the first lawsuit was settled, six black Secret Service agents visited a Denny's restaurant in Annapolis,
Maryland, and were forced to wait an hour for service while their white companions were seated promptly and were waited
on with second and third helpings (Guillermo, 1997). Countless other incidents similar in nature occurred throughout the
Denny's chain. One Sacramento resident, a white male, was seated promptly at a Denny's restaurant. When his wife, a black
woman, came to join him, the waitress's demeanor altered drastically. She slammed down a plate of spaghetti in front of the
black woman, splattering her blouse with tomato sauce. Another black Denny's customer, Douglas McNeal, was told that he
and his friends had to pay for their meals at the same time they ordered their food. McNeal observed a white couple order and
pay up at the counter after their meal, as usual. He questioned the waitress: "We asked the waitress about it and she said some
black guys had been in earlier who made a scene and walked out without paying their bill. So the manager now wanted all
blacks to pay up front" (Ferraro, 1995).
These are only a few examples of the discrimination that Denny's displayed. Thousands of black customers have claimed
similar suits.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/bh/badco/dennysgbu.pdf
============
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2345270-post587.html

 

[Immanuel]

To get back on topic....
has anyone mentioned yet Denny's paid out settlements totaling $54 million to over 300,000 people who said they were racially discriminated against at Denny's restaurants?

They pussed out.

Given the evidence, I'm not convinced they did anything wrong.

Maybe you weren't, but juries and judges for well over a quarter of a million people were.

Amazing you can make that judgment without even KNOWING any of the evidence.

At least Intense was fair enough to look it up and provide some insight:

{snip for brevity}

I'm not sure about this and didn't want to research it, but are you sure about this?

I thought Denny's settled out of court meaning that there were no trials and no finding of guilt.

The fact that a company would settle out of court does not mean that they admit guilt or are even guilty. It simply means that they believe it will be cheaper for them in the long run to settle with the accusers than to attempt to fight a battle in court with unpredictable outcomes.

Immie

 

[Intense]

They pussed out.

Given the evidence, I'm not convinced they did anything wrong.

Maybe you weren't, but juries and judges for well over a quarter of a million people were.

Amazing you can make that judgment without even KNOWING any of the evidence.

At least Intense was fair enough to look it up and provide some insight:

{snip for brevity}

I'm not sure about this and didn't want to research it, but are you sure about this?

I thought Denny's settled out of court meaning that there were no trials and no finding of guilt.

The fact that a company would settle out of court does not mean that they admit guilt or are even guilty. It simply means that they believe it will be cheaper for them in the long run to settle with the accusers than to attempt to fight a battle in court with unpredictable outcomes.

Immie

I've really liked Denny's over the years and will continue to. The issue though I truly believe to be local, can be dealt with through employee training and education. I believe that what we are hearing about is more related to Human Nature, not politics, or PC. All people tend to draw lines in the sand. We need to look at our own natures, Black, White, Brown, Yellow , Red. We are all people first. The last thing anyone having a bad day needs is more bullshit. It hurts. Know that. That said, with people running out without paying, sometimes restaurants may want to see your ability to pay, up front. I think it should be handled carefully, but the problem being common, I believe the establishment justified in validating your ability to pay. Abusive or negligent service is not excusable.

 

[Immanuel]

Maybe you weren't, but juries and judges for well over a quarter of a million people were.

Amazing you can make that judgment without even KNOWING any of the evidence.

At least Intense was fair enough to look it up and provide some insight:

{snip for brevity}

I'm not sure about this and didn't want to research it, but are you sure about this?

I thought Denny's settled out of court meaning that there were no trials and no finding of guilt.

The fact that a company would settle out of court does not mean that they admit guilt or are even guilty. It simply means that they believe it will be cheaper for them in the long run to settle with the accusers than to attempt to fight a battle in court with unpredictable outcomes.

Immie

I've really liked Denny's over the years and will continue to. The issue though I truly believe to be local, can be dealt with through employee training and education. I believe that what we are hearing about is more related to Human Nature, not politics, or PC. All people tend to draw lines in the sand. We need to look at our own natures, Black, White, Brown, Yellow , Red. We are all people first. The last thing anyone having a bad day needs is more bullshit. It hurts. Know that. That said, with people running out without paying, sometimes restaurants may want to see your ability to pay, up front. I think it should be handled carefully, but the problem being common, I believe the establishment justified in validating your ability to pay. Abusive or negligent service is not excusable.

I worked for Denny's when I was a teenager.

I am pretty sure they are independently owned, but even if not, they are independently managed. The idea that the entire chain is run by racists is ludicrous.

The facts of each case are independent of each other and not knowing the circumstance of each case makes it difficult to know what really happened. For instance, in the case that you mention, the way it was written in the article leaves little room for question as to whether or not it was discrimination, but then are all the facts presented in the article. I don't remember if these people had ever been in that location before. Might it be that they were well known there and had skipped the tab before?

You said, "That said, with people running out without paying, sometimes restaurants may want to see your ability to pay, up front. I think it should be handled carefully, but the problem being common, I believe the establishment justified in validating your ability to pay." I would agree with that statement, but my recollection from your article is that they requested this of a particular party of a particular color yet did not do so for another party of a different color. There is the problem. They seem to have enforced the policy only upon certain types of individuals. The reasons why are not known by me. Maybe they had good reasons?

Denny's settled out of court to avoid the costs of a lawsuit. That cost may not only have been monetary. A lawsuit can be disastrous on a business' reputation, so they simply might have done the prudent thing and settled, but there is no way that

So, my point to PPV was that the fact that they settled out of court does not indicate an admission of guilt.

Immie

 

[Intense]

I'm not sure about this and didn't want to research it, but are you sure about this?

I thought Denny's settled out of court meaning that there were no trials and no finding of guilt.

The fact that a company would settle out of court does not mean that they admit guilt or are even guilty. It simply means that they believe it will be cheaper for them in the long run to settle with the accusers than to attempt to fight a battle in court with unpredictable outcomes.

Immie

I've really liked Denny's over the years and will continue to. The issue though I truly believe to be local, can be dealt with through employee training and education. I believe that what we are hearing about is more related to Human Nature, not politics, or PC. All people tend to draw lines in the sand. We need to look at our own natures, Black, White, Brown, Yellow , Red. We are all people first. The last thing anyone having a bad day needs is more bullshit. It hurts. Know that. That said, with people running out without paying, sometimes restaurants may want to see your ability to pay, up front. I think it should be handled carefully, but the problem being common, I believe the establishment justified in validating your ability to pay. Abusive or negligent service is not excusable.

I worked for Denny's when I was a teenager.

I am pretty sure they are independently owned, but even if not, they are independently managed. The idea that the entire chain is run by racists is ludicrous.

The facts of each case are independent of each other and not knowing the circumstance of each case makes it difficult to know what really happened. For instance, in the case that you mention, the way it was written in the article leaves little room for question as to whether or not it was discrimination, but then are all the facts presented in the article. I don't remember if these people had ever been in that location before. Might it be that they were well known there and had skipped the tab before?

You said, "That said, with people running out without paying, sometimes restaurants may want to see your ability to pay, up front. I think it should be handled carefully, but the problem being common, I believe the establishment justified in validating your ability to pay." I would agree with that statement, but my recollection from your article is that they requested this of a particular party of a particular color yet did not do so for another party of a different color. There is the problem. They seem to have enforced the policy only upon certain types of individuals. The reasons why are not known by me. Maybe they had good reasons?

Denny's settled out of court to avoid the costs of a lawsuit. That cost may not only have been monetary. A lawsuit can be disastrous on a business' reputation, so they simply might have done the prudent thing and settled, but there is no way that

So, my point to PPV was that the fact that they settled out of court does not indicate an admission of guilt.

Immie

Good points and I agree with them. When it comes to payment and people running out there are many factors, time of day, day of the week, local regular customers V.S. unknown. Age. Conduct. Appearance. Waitresses rely heavily on tips, poor tippers will not get the same service as big tippers. Been on both sides of that. Some customers are allot of work, whether they realize it or not. Be nice, get nice.

 

[manifold]

Prolly the workers at Denny's don't care much for the niggardly.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

for cocoa puffs

 

[Father Time]

What liberty do you really have if someone can refuse to serve you a meal simply because of your skin color?

I don't think they are entitled to serve you. Remember ye olde sign 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone'. I think that should apply.

It does apply so long as service is not denied for any reasons listed in the CRA.

I know but I think it should apply to whoever you want.

Although the good news is that even if the discrimination laws went away, in most places in the US anyone who publicly discriminates against race will be met with scorn, ridicule and lost business.

You're an ignorant fuck.

So you think businesses that discriminate won't be met with criticism and boycotts? Sweet hell businesses sometimes face criticisms and boycotts for ever worse reasons (see the Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays non-issue)

They'd certainly lose my business.

Yeah, right, you'd go to the hood for your groceries, I'd bet! LOL!

You don't know me and do you really think I'd be stuck with a store on the other side of town?