Iraq Wants the US Out - Our New Saigon Moment

[Two Thumbs]

It will be nice to let them get back to killing each other over small differences in religion and age old grudges.

We can use the troops to help finish off Afganistan. Once that's done, maybe we can set up patrols along our southern boarder. uhm, Once obama is out.

No one is putting troops on the border, thats political suicide.

Thanks for bursting my bubble.

It probably won't, but it is not out of order to assign troops to patrol boarder regions.

 

[Sunni Man]

We can use the troops to help finish off Afganistan. .

What does that mean exactly?

Cause even our government doesn't have a coherent answer??

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

If their legit, freely, fairly, democratically elected government, that our heroes have sacrificed and died for, is telling us they've got this, that's fine with me.

We've obviously won there anyway. I'm confident the Iraqi National Army and police can handle it from here.

 

[High_Gravity]

It will be nice to let them get back to killing each other over small differences in religion and age old grudges.

We can use the troops to help finish off Afganistan. Once that's done, maybe we can set up patrols along our southern boarder. uhm, Once obama is out.

No one is putting troops on the border, thats political suicide.

Thanks for bursting my bubble.

It probably won't, but it is not out of order to assign troops to patrol boarder regions.

Its not but that will be percieved as an attack on the Hispanics and whoever is President will lose that whole voting base, which is why no one has really pursued it.

 

[High_Gravity]

If their legit, freely, fairly, democratically elected government, that our heroes have sacrificed and died for, is telling us they've got this, that's fine with me.

We've obviously won there anyway. I'm confident the Iraqi National Army and police can handle it from here.

I think things in Iraq are as good as their going to get with our troops there, its time for them to take off the training wheels and see if they can handle this on their own.

 

[Foxfyre]

My early preference was to stay and demand a democratic and stable nation there as we demanded of Germany and Japan, both of whom were our mortal enemies, and both of whom are now friends, allies, and strong assets rather than liabilities to the world.

Once we elected for maintenance rather than victory in Iraq, the war was lost. And once we announced a departure date, any chance we had to demand a stable and forward looking Iraq was also lost.

We might as well pack up and go home now and not expend any more of our blood and treasure for a cause we long ago abdicated.

Define that please.

Victory means one side wins, the other side loses. Victory means unconditional surrender after which the other nation is at the mercy of the victor. Victory means the vanquished can request but has no power to demand. The Victor calls the shots.

That is exactly what happened in both Germany and Japan. And I am quite sure both are profoundly pleased that it was England and the USA and like minded allies that were their conquerors and not Russia. We stayed for a number of years after unconditional surrender and helped rebuild them, set a few necessary conditions into place, and then set them free to assume their places among peaceful and prosperous nations of the world.

I don't buy that Germany nor Japan knew what was best for them before the Allied victory. I don't buy that Iraq knew what was best for them or knows what is best for them now.

 

[Sunni Man]

Would be cool if they could chill on the religious stupid. And concentrate on reading Adam Smith, Milton Friedman and the like, rather than goofy religious texts.

Like we really need to listen to Adam Smith (christian) and Milton Friedman (jew) instead of Muhammad.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

If their legit, freely, fairly, democratically elected government, that our heroes have sacrificed and died for, is telling us they've got this, that's fine with me.

We've obviously won there anyway. I'm confident the Iraqi National Army and police can handle it from here.

I think things in Iraq are as good as their going to get with our troops there, its time for them to take off the training wheels and see if they can handle this on their own.

THIS IS the beginning of THE TRUE test of GWB's legacy..........

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Would be cool if they could chill on the religious stupid. And concentrate on reading Adam Smith, Milton Friedman and the like, rather than goofy religious texts.

Like we really need to listen to Adam Smith (christian) and Milton Friedman (jew) instead of Muhammad.

Yea......then yall might be forced to jump outta......gasp......the 7th century!

 

[Sallow]

If their legit, freely, fairly, democratically elected government, that our heroes have sacrificed and died for, is telling us they've got this, that's fine with me.

We've obviously won there anyway. I'm confident the Iraqi National Army and police can handle it from here.

I think things in Iraq are as good as their going to get with our troops there, its time for them to take off the training wheels and see if they can handle this on their own.

Going to take much much more then that. Countries that are "birthed" as a result of imperalistic actions seldom do well.

 

[Sunni Man]

I don't buy that Germany nor Japan knew what was best for them before the Allied victory. I don't buy that Iraq knew what was best for them or knows what is best for them now.

Nice of you to take pity on the poor Iraqi's who have now idea what's best for them even though they have lived there for thousands of years.

So like the imperialistic British, we need to go to other countries, invade them, subdue them, and teach them our ways which are vastly superior.

Heck, the American Indians didn't know what was good for them until we showed them the white man's way.

 

[mdn2000]

No surprise here, Iraq wants Obama's Army out of Iraq, hell, I want Obama out of the USA, only people winning are the Iraqis.

 

[Sallow]

My early preference was to stay and demand a democratic and stable nation there as we demanded of Germany and Japan, both of whom were our mortal enemies, and both of whom are now friends, allies, and strong assets rather than liabilities to the world.

Very different. Japan and Germany were basically democratic to begin with. Add in most of their institutions, government officials and military were left basically intact. While reconstruction was "tough", there were people in place to run the show..and knew the landscape.

Iraq on the other..was completely decimated. And I mean that in terms of infrastucture, military and politically. It's been built from the ground up..and not very well. It will be a miracle if there isn't a civil war in the next few years.

The best result will probably be a strong arm dictatorship..like the one we took out.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

My early preference was to stay and demand a democratic and stable nation there as we demanded of Germany and Japan, both of whom were our mortal enemies, and both of whom are now friends, allies, and strong assets rather than liabilities to the world.

Very different. Japan and Germany were basically democratic to begin with. Add in most of their institutions, government officials and military were left basically intact. While reconstruction was "tough", there were people in place to run the show..and knew the landscape.

Iraq on the other..was completely decimated. And I mean that in terms of infrastucture, military and politically. It's been built from the ground up..and not very well. It will be a miracle if there isn't a civil war in the next few years.

The best result will probably be a strong arm dictatorship..like the one we took out.

Of course, brutal, homicidal maniacs are always the best way to go.

 

[Sunni Man]

Very different. Japan and Germany were basically democratic to begin with. Add in most of their institutions, government officials and military were left basically intact. While reconstruction was "tough", there were people in place to run the show..and knew the landscape.

LOL. true, we used ex nazis to run the new Germany.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't buy that Germany nor Japan knew what was best for them before the Allied victory. I don't buy that Iraq knew what was best for them or knows what is best for them now.

Nice of you to take pity on the poor Iraqi's who have now idea what's best for them even though they have lived there for thousands of years.

So like the imperialistic British, we need to go to other countries, invade them, subdue them, and teach them our ways which are vastly superior.

Heck, the American Indians didn't know what was good for them until we showed them the white man's way.

HUGE non sequitur my friend. Back up and try again.

We didn't threaten or invade Germany to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Japan to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Iraq to start a war. The difference there is that once they started a war, we just stopped it. We didn't finish it on the spot. If we had we might have avoided all the grief and tragedy of the twelve long years of sanctions followed by endless war.

What would have happened if had just stopped Germany and Japan and then went away allowing the same people to hold the power and allowing them to rebuild on their terms? Would the outcome have been as satisfactory even as both retain the best of their previous cultures? I can almost guarantee you that it would not. Nor do I think the outcome in Iraq will be as satisfactory as it would had we determined to demand unconditional surrender and then helped them rebuild into a peaceful prosperous nation.

The situation with the American Indians is a completely different circumstance as is the circumstance of all peoples who give over land and power to others who come in. That had little in common with winners and losers in war.

 

[Sallow]

I don't buy that Germany nor Japan knew what was best for them before the Allied victory. I don't buy that Iraq knew what was best for them or knows what is best for them now.

Nice of you to take pity on the poor Iraqi's who have now idea what's best for them even though they have lived there for thousands of years.

So like the imperialistic British, we need to go to other countries, invade them, subdue them, and teach them our ways which are vastly superior.

Heck, the American Indians didn't know what was good for them until we showed them the white man's way.

HUGE non sequitur my friend. Back up and try again.

We didn't threaten or invade Germany to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Japan to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Iraq to start a war. The difference there is that once they started a war, we just stopped it. We didn't finish it on the spot. If we had we might have avoided all the grief and tragedy of the twelve long years of sanctions followed by endless war.

What would have happened if had just stopped Germany and Japan and then went away allowing the same people to hold the power and allowing them to rebuild on their terms? Would the outcome have been as satisfactory even as both retain the best of their previous cultures? I can almost guarantee you that it would not. Nor do I think the outcome in Iraq will be as satisfactory as it would had we determined to demand unconditional surrender and then helped them rebuild into a peaceful prosperous nation.

The situation with the American Indians is a completely different circumstance as is the circumstance of all peoples who give over land and power to others who come in. That had little in common with winners and losers in war.

Iraq never started a war with us.

 

[Sallow]

My early preference was to stay and demand a democratic and stable nation there as we demanded of Germany and Japan, both of whom were our mortal enemies, and both of whom are now friends, allies, and strong assets rather than liabilities to the world.

Very different. Japan and Germany were basically democratic to begin with. Add in most of their institutions, government officials and military were left basically intact. While reconstruction was "tough", there were people in place to run the show..and knew the landscape.

Iraq on the other..was completely decimated. And I mean that in terms of infrastucture, military and politically. It's been built from the ground up..and not very well. It will be a miracle if there isn't a civil war in the next few years.

The best result will probably be a strong arm dictatorship..like the one we took out.

Of course, brutal, homicidal maniacs are always the best way to go.

Check your history. The United States has installed plenty of them.

 

[Foxfyre]

Nice of you to take pity on the poor Iraqi's who have now idea what's best for them even though they have lived there for thousands of years.

So like the imperialistic British, we need to go to other countries, invade them, subdue them, and teach them our ways which are vastly superior.

Heck, the American Indians didn't know what was good for them until we showed them the white man's way.

HUGE non sequitur my friend. Back up and try again.

We didn't threaten or invade Germany to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Japan to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Iraq to start a war. The difference there is that once they started a war, we just stopped it. We didn't finish it on the spot. If we had we might have avoided all the grief and tragedy of the twelve long years of sanctions followed by endless war.

What would have happened if had just stopped Germany and Japan and then went away allowing the same people to hold the power and allowing them to rebuild on their terms? Would the outcome have been as satisfactory even as both retain the best of their previous cultures? I can almost guarantee you that it would not. Nor do I think the outcome in Iraq will be as satisfactory as it would had we determined to demand unconditional surrender and then helped them rebuild into a peaceful prosperous nation.

The situation with the American Indians is a completely different circumstance as is the circumstance of all peoples who give over land and power to others who come in. That had little in common with winners and losers in war.

Iraq never started a war with us.

No, but they did start a war with an ally when they invaded Kuwait and were threatening another when they amassed forces on their border with Saudi Arabia. And they were unlawfully threatening the oil supply to much of the free world. So when Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, with blessings of all their other neighbors, AND the U.N. asked for help, most of the free nations of the world stepped in.

Germany and Japan both had dictatorships. Neither any longer does. Iraq could have gotten the same deal. But no nation in which we have pulled punches or just stopped without demanding unconditional surrender has benefitted from their wars as has Germany and Japan.

 

[mdn2000]

Nice of you to take pity on the poor Iraqi's who have now idea what's best for them even though they have lived there for thousands of years.

So like the imperialistic British, we need to go to other countries, invade them, subdue them, and teach them our ways which are vastly superior.

Heck, the American Indians didn't know what was good for them until we showed them the white man's way.

HUGE non sequitur my friend. Back up and try again.

We didn't threaten or invade Germany to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Japan to start a war. But once they started a war, we finished it.

We didn't threaten or invade Iraq to start a war. The difference there is that once they started a war, we just stopped it. We didn't finish it on the spot. If we had we might have avoided all the grief and tragedy of the twelve long years of sanctions followed by endless war.

What would have happened if had just stopped Germany and Japan and then went away allowing the same people to hold the power and allowing them to rebuild on their terms? Would the outcome have been as satisfactory even as both retain the best of their previous cultures? I can almost guarantee you that it would not. Nor do I think the outcome in Iraq will be as satisfactory as it would had we determined to demand unconditional surrender and then helped them rebuild into a peaceful prosperous nation.

The situation with the American Indians is a completely different circumstance as is the circumstance of all peoples who give over land and power to others who come in. That had little in common with winners and losers in war.

Iraq never started a war with us.

So what, Iraq is gone as it was known, the world is better off.