Iraq demands all US troops leave - Obama takes credit for ending the war in Iraq

[Jackson]

Bring home the military trainers as well. We don't need anyone over there. Those military trainers will be sitting ducks.

 

[Unkotare]

They told us to leave? Oh good! Now we can get the fuck out.

FWIW, they didn't tell us to leave - they simply said our troops would not be immune from Iraqi law.

Simply... that's kind of a big thing. Immunity is for these kind of instances, I wouldn't trust any iraqi police, judges, or the justice system in whole to be fair if anything happens. I'm saying I could see lies and exaggerations rampant.

Yep, ole Saddam learned about kangaroo court and lynching...

NO, he 'learned' about consequences and justice.

 

[Rinata]

Iraq demands all US troops leave - Obama takes credit for ending the war in Iraq


Since noone else did it I guess he can take credit for it.

Did he really?? Show us. Was it in the newspaper or did you hear it on the news??? Who was the newscaster? If you saw it in the newspaper, which one was it??

 

[FactFinder]

Thank God that F'n war is over and anyone who wants may take credit. Just get us the F out of there.

 

[Lakhota]

What if Bush had never invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam? Would Arab Spring have toppled him? Just think of all the U.S. blood and treasure it would have saved.

By Eli Clifton

Here are some relevant numbers:

8 years, 260 days since Secretary of State Colin Powell presented evidence of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program

8 years, 215 days since the March 20, 2003 invasion of Iraq

8 years, 175 days since President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln

4,479 U.S. military fatalities

30,182 U.S. military injuries

468 contractor fatalities

103,142 – 112,708 documented civilian deaths

2.8 million internally displaced Iraqis

$806 billion in federal funding for the Iraq War through FY2011

$3 – $5 trillion in total economic cost to the United States of the Iraq war according to economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Blimes

$60 billion in U.S. expenditures lost to waste and fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001

0 weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq

More: Iraq By The Numbers: The World's Costliest Cakewalk | ThinkProgress

 

[CT9]

It's just a matter of time before the civil war shit hits the fan. Saddam kept a lid on that cesspool of ancient tribal hatred. Saddam is gone.

One of the few times I agree with you. Turkey sent in 10,000 troops to the areas just north of its border to attack the kurds.

 

[gslack]

What if Bush had never invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam? Would Arab Spring have toppled him? Just think of all the U.S. blood and treasure it would have saved.

By Eli Clifton

Here are some relevant numbers:

8 years, 260 days since Secretary of State Colin Powell presented evidence of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program

8 years, 215 days since the March 20, 2003 invasion of Iraq

8 years, 175 days since President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln

4,479 U.S. military fatalities

30,182 U.S. military injuries

468 contractor fatalities

103,142 – 112,708 documented civilian deaths

2.8 million internally displaced Iraqis

$806 billion in federal funding for the Iraq War through FY2011

$3 – $5 trillion in total economic cost to the United States of the Iraq war according to economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Blimes

$60 billion in U.S. expenditures lost to waste and fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001

0 weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq

More: Iraq By The Numbers: The World's Costliest Cakewalk | ThinkProgress

All very true and valid, but also what if all of those Democrats (some either still in office now or even in Obama's cabinet) hadn't agreed and voted against going rather than for going?

I got no problem with Bush bashing, I just got a problem with pretending he did it all alone and without the help of many democrats that now play dumb or pretend they just weren't aware, or didn't have time to get better intel, the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI all lied to them or falsified data.

Im sorry but its their damn job they are the final word, and they in the very least dropped the ball, and I don't by their excuses.

 

[Lakhota]

It's just a matter of time before the civil war shit hits the fan. Saddam kept a lid on that cesspool of ancient tribal hatred. Saddam is gone.

One of the few times I agree with you. Turkey sent in 10,000 troops to the areas just north of its border to attack the kurds.

Aw, yes, those wonderful Kurds that Saddam gassed. Those wonderful Kurds that Bush used as one of his pretexts for invading Iraq. BTW, the Kurds are Iranians, so it's no wonder they wanted Saddam toppled.

Who Are the Kurds?

After the Kurds supported Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, Saddam Hussein retaliated, razing villages and attacking peasants with chemical weapons. The Kurds rebelled again after the Persian Gulf War only to be crushed again by Iraqi troops.

More: Washingtonpost.com: Terrorism Report

NOTE: The U.S. also supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war.

 

[CT9]

The whole region is fuck up beyond repair. I just wish we could send them to another planet to deal with their 13th century problems and logic. If they didn't have oil we could totally steer clear of that whole region, or if we didn't depend on oil. But what can you do... it is what it is

 

[Lakhota]

What if Bush had never invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam? Would Arab Spring have toppled him? Just think of all the U.S. blood and treasure it would have saved.

By Eli Clifton

Here are some relevant numbers:

8 years, 260 days since Secretary of State Colin Powell presented evidence of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program

8 years, 215 days since the March 20, 2003 invasion of Iraq

8 years, 175 days since President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln

4,479 U.S. military fatalities

30,182 U.S. military injuries

468 contractor fatalities

103,142 – 112,708 documented civilian deaths

2.8 million internally displaced Iraqis

$806 billion in federal funding for the Iraq War through FY2011

$3 – $5 trillion in total economic cost to the United States of the Iraq war according to economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Blimes

$60 billion in U.S. expenditures lost to waste and fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001

0 weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq

More: Iraq By The Numbers: The World's Costliest Cakewalk | ThinkProgress

All very true and valid, but also what if all of those Democrats (some either still in office now or even in Obama's cabinet) hadn't agreed and voted against going rather than for going?

I got no problem with Bush bashing, I just got a problem with pretending he did it all alone and without the help of many democrats that now play dumb or pretend they just weren't aware, or didn't have time to get better intel, the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI all lied to them or falsified data.

Im sorry but its their damn job they are the final word, and they in the very least dropped the ball, and I don't by their excuses.

Were you in a coma when this happened? After 9/11, patriotism was at a fever pitch. Even though Bush lied us into Iraq, Democrats gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. America gave Bush the benefit of the doubt at that time. It would have seemed treasonous to have done otherwise at the time. We didn't fully learn/realize the truth until it was too late. I'll never forget the first time I saw Bush make his 9/11 connection to Iraq. Then he started with all that WMD, yellowcake, mushroom cloud bullshit. His ass should be in prison pounding rocks!

 

[CT9]

^^I think however most intelligence pointed to that and that is how he arrived to that decision. I don't know or care though, he was wrong. It's like saying the left invented global warming so they could give out loans and grants to family members who own, work, or are on boards of green companies. Nepotism and crony capitalism is every where and will always be. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't start the war for that.

 

[Unkotare]

Even though Bush lied us into Iraq,!

No, he did not. Your talking points are out of date and were never accurate.

 

[Lakhota]

^^I think however most intelligence pointed to that and that is how he arrived to that decision. I don't know or care though, he was wrong. It's like saying the left invented global warming so they could give out loans and grants to family members who own, work, or are on boards of green companies. Nepotism and crony capitalism is every where and will always be. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't start the war for that.

Then I guess you also give Bush's daddy a pass on baiting Saddam into invading Kuwait?

Is the US State Department still keeping April Glaspie under wraps?

NOTE: There have been stories that a particular Wikileaks memo supposedly "vindicates" April Glaspie. No, it doesn't.

American Power: April Glaspie Memo Leaked

 

[gslack]

What if Bush had never invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam? Would Arab Spring have toppled him? Just think of all the U.S. blood and treasure it would have saved.



More: Iraq By The Numbers: The World's Costliest Cakewalk | ThinkProgress

All very true and valid, but also what if all of those Democrats (some either still in office now or even in Obama's cabinet) hadn't agreed and voted against going rather than for going?

I got no problem with Bush bashing, I just got a problem with pretending he did it all alone and without the help of many democrats that now play dumb or pretend they just weren't aware, or didn't have time to get better intel, the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI all lied to them or falsified data.

Im sorry but its their damn job they are the final word, and they in the very least dropped the ball, and I don't by their excuses.

Were you in a coma when this happened? After 9/11, patriotism was at a fever pitch. Even though Bush lied us into Iraq, Democrats gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. America gave Bush the benefit of the doubt at that time. It would have seemed treasonous to have done otherwise at the time. We didn't fully learn/realize the truth until it was too late. I'll never forget the first time I saw Bush make his 9/11 connection to Iraq. Then he started with all that WMD, yellowcake, mushroom cloud bullshit. His ass should be in prison pounding rocks!

Excuse me? I was working in Fort Meade, Maryland then. I was all to aware of what was going on at the time...

After 9/11 patriotism was at a fever pitch and thats why we elect people that are supposed to have the cooler heads that prevail. We didn't elect reactionary emotional wrecks, we elected shrewd politicians who were supposed to be able to think in a crisis. Politicians are always politicians its what they do for a living, they knew damn well better than to make a decision like that in a rush or without checking.

Correction, I did not give him the benefit of the doubt then, nor did a great many people as I recall there was much disagreement over going into Iraq even in the early planning stages. Clinton was not some emotional and inexperienced or unaware novice, she was a shrewd politician. And so were many others.

I worked in the Fort Meade, Greater DC area from 89' till just a few years ago I became a contractor doing the same job I did before but on a per assignment basis. I can tell you without any uncertainty, there is no excuse for senators of any party back then that can pardon their vote of yes to go into Iraq. They were all responsible to do their job in spite of their situation.

I think Bush was a POS.. But I also know he wasn't the only POS... Both sides have many of them...

 

[CT9]

^^I think however most intelligence pointed to that and that is how he arrived to that decision. I don't know or care though, he was wrong. It's like saying the left invented global warming so they could give out loans and grants to family members who own, work, or are on boards of green companies. Nepotism and crony capitalism is every where and will always be. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't start the war for that.

Then I guess you also give Bush's daddy a pass on baiting Saddam into invading Kuwait?

Is the US State Department still keeping April Glaspie under wraps?

The gag order is odd, however, from reading that transcript if correct she seemed borderline incompetent and not confident. I think the incompetence was the root of her lack of confidence because of the way she handled that meeting. It appeared she wasn't either sure of the U.S.'s reaction to an invasion or was too intimidated to say that action would be taken. I mean you read the beginning, she is giving her personal opinion."I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country (after the Iran-Iraq war). We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country."

She also contradicts herself, and appears she is afraid of striking a chord of confrontation by saying Arab-Arab issues are not of our concern. By this point, a large part of the U.S. Foreign Policy community believed in Collective Security, entaglement, and if that was not of anothers opinion, they would at least recognize this opposition. Here is the contradiction, and in the first quote I believe her recognition of those forces in American foreign policy.

"Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions. Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait’s borders?"

If we didn't care about Kuwait why would she even be meeting with him over this? Infact she states American interests in Kuwait, and the answer that gives him the "green light"

""We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasise the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

So she either is incompetent and contradictory. Or she played Saddam like a fiddle to get to his intentions. I'm starting to think it is more so along the lines of the second. I really wouldn't consider this a green light, and from Saddams language it appears he wasn't looking nor cared about one. He was going to do what he was going to do.

That is an awful site man, I wouldn't go their.

I see some of you going to sites with people less qualified than you or me to be speaking on these things.

Do you really believe this stuff? and if so why still?

 

[CT9]

All very true and valid, but also what if all of those Democrats (some either still in office now or even in Obama's cabinet) hadn't agreed and voted against going rather than for going?

I got no problem with Bush bashing, I just got a problem with pretending he did it all alone and without the help of many democrats that now play dumb or pretend they just weren't aware, or didn't have time to get better intel, the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI all lied to them or falsified data.

Im sorry but its their damn job they are the final word, and they in the very least dropped the ball, and I don't by their excuses.

Were you in a coma when this happened? After 9/11, patriotism was at a fever pitch. Even though Bush lied us into Iraq, Democrats gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. America gave Bush the benefit of the doubt at that time. It would have seemed treasonous to have done otherwise at the time. We didn't fully learn/realize the truth until it was too late. I'll never forget the first time I saw Bush make his 9/11 connection to Iraq. Then he started with all that WMD, yellowcake, mushroom cloud bullshit. His ass should be in prison pounding rocks!

Excuse me? I was working in Fort Meade, Maryland then. I was all to aware of what was going on at the time...

After 9/11 patriotism was at a fever pitch and thats why we elect people that are supposed to have the cooler heads that prevail. We didn't elect reactionary emotional wrecks, we elected shrewd politicians who were supposed to be able to think in a crisis. Politicians are always politicians its what they do for a living, they knew damn well better than to make a decision like that in a rush or without checking.

Correction, I did not give him the benefit of the doubt then, nor did a great many people as I recall there was much disagreement over going into Iraq even in the early planning stages. Clinton was not some emotional and inexperienced or unaware novice, she was a shrewd politician. And so were many others.

I worked in the Fort Meade, Greater DC area from 89' till just a few years ago I became a contractor doing the same job I did before but on a per assignment basis. I can tell you without any uncertainty, there is no excuse for senators of any party back then that can pardon their vote of yes to go into Iraq. They were all responsible to do their job in spite of their situation.

I think Bush was a POS.. But I also know he wasn't the only POS... Both sides have many of them...

lol some people will profess their innocence no matter what.

 

[Unkotare]

[

Then I guess you also give Bush's daddy a pass on baiting Saddam into invading Kuwait?
]

"baiting"


You're willing to act like a 5 year-old (teacher! he made me do it!) to play the apologist for a horrible dictator?

You're fucking shameless.

 

[Lakhota]

Gawd bless the Iranian Kurds.

 

[Lakhota]

As Obama Announces Iraq Troop Withdrawal, Critics Say War Provides 'Cautionary Tale'

 

[Nunz]

Were you in a coma when this happened? After 9/11, patriotism was at a fever pitch. Even though Bush lied us into Iraq, Democrats gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. America gave Bush the benefit of the doubt at that time. It would have seemed treasonous to have done otherwise at the time. We didn't fully learn/realize the truth until it was too late. I'll never forget the first time I saw Bush make his 9/11 connection to Iraq. Then he started with all that WMD, yellowcake, mushroom cloud bullshit. His ass should be in prison pounding rocks!

Quotes reproduce statements made by Democratic leaders about Saddam Hussein's acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force ? if necessary ? to disarm Saddam Hussein because
I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

snopes.com: Weapons of Mass Destruction Quotes