Iran hangs woman despite campaign

[Roudy]

There is no justice with Sharia.

Well given that universal "Justice" is what "Jesus" ultimately stands for,
it makes sense that the peaceful Muslims who respect Christ and the Bible as part of their sacred laws
share in a common sense of justice, and are appalled by such atrocities and abuses of power,
While others who reject the true meaning of Jesus (and who seek dominance by Retribution instead)
worship Jihad, Armaggeddon, and War instead of Heavenly Peace which is the Kingdom of God.

No Justice = No Peace, and true Islam means Spiritual Peace
just as true Christianity means true Charity for all humanity.

Sharia rejects anything but the Koran. "There are two primary sources of sharia law: the precepts set forth in the Quranic verses (ayahs), and the example set by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the Sunnah"

Esposito, John (2001), Women in Muslim family law, Syracuse University Press, ISBN 978-0815629085


I hardly think that a bible thumper would be welcome.

Mohammad clearly taught that believers should receive and respect
ALL SENT BY GOD:
which includes
* Jewish Torah
* Christian Scripture
* Islam Quran

If people miss this, that is like people running govt
without any sense of the U.S. Constitution.

It happens but that's why our govt is out of bounds
with the principles that are supposed to be running the ship.

Every large collective organization loses sight of its original founding.
The Catholic church fell into corruption and lost sight of the message.

Happens with any large group because of the bureaucracy
of trying to manage collective resources and power in a concentrated top down structure.

Politics, pecking order, and pandering to conflicts of interest are always going to corrupt such structures,
and that's why we need checks and balances.

Christianity is supposed to have members CHECK each other,
and also the Civil Laws and Authority (including Natural laws under the Constitution)
are supposed to be respected as part of Christianity.

So if you practice Islam as intended, this would include
both Christian/Scriptural laws GIVEN BY GOD
and Natural/Constitutional laws GIVEN by GOD.

All the truly peaceful and charitable Muslims I know
respect Christianity and Constitutional principles.
So there are ways to tell who is a mature follower
and who is just abusing religion for political takeover, force and power.

Which Mohammad are you talking about? The one before he rose to power, where he appeared more conciliatory and called the Jews and Christians "people of the Book". Or the one after, who massacred all the Jews of Mecca and told all Jews and Christians to Submit to Islam or die?

You realize there were two Mohammad's, and the true one (the mass murdering terrorist thief) came out after he gained some power?

Well which role did George Bush play that is more in keeping with Christianity? Serving as head of the military where many troops arecgiven explicit orders to enter shoot to kill without due process afforded civilians during peacetime?

Or the civilian George Bush who prays in church, overcame addiction behavior, and gives to charity?

In civilian life you practice civilian law.

In war time you follow military policy.

No, you dont take these out of context anfld thats where jihadists go wrong.

True Muslim believers follow God and civilian laws as Christians do by scriptures on respecting civilian
Authority.

Thats how you csn tell the difference.

Militants are dangerous when theyget lawless regardless what religion or faith they abuse. Islam is esoecially endangered if followers are segregated away from Chtistians and Jews as you seem to prefer. This is hurting the ppl and makes them vulnerable to divide and conquer. So it is a wiser strategy to unite in Christ the Jews Christians and Muslims as taught in Islam. There is strength in unity in Christ, this iscwhat we should teach not division!

How did we get from Mohammad to Bush. I didn't know Bush is the symbol of Christianity. Sounds like someone has Bush derangement syndrome. Was Obama or Clinton "in keeping" when they ordered drones to take out targets from 10,000 feet in the air?

"Regardless of what faith they abuse"? I don't think today's Christians or Jews are citing their faith as a reason to slaughter people of other faiths, like Muslims are.

So you think you can approach a Muslim jihadist and have him unite in Christ? Oh ok. Do you have beheading insurance? Good luck.

 

[Roudy]

So Islam (Iran government) kills women that fight sexual abuse, is that what I am take away from this? That doesn't look good for, ya know, the icky Muslims males. Chopping off heads, stoning parking violators to death. Urinating on humanity for Allah. Islam and her sister, Sharia law, not looking so good right now. Cutting of clitorises...damn. Is all this "Allah's will?"

If you mark out the violence and intolerance in the Koran, you're left with three pages to read.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well given that universal "Justice" is what "Jesus" ultimately stands for,
it makes sense that the peaceful Muslims who respect Christ and the Bible as part of their sacred laws
share in a common sense of justice, and are appalled by such atrocities and abuses of power,
While others who reject the true meaning of Jesus (and who seek dominance by Retribution instead)
worship Jihad, Armaggeddon, and War instead of Heavenly Peace which is the Kingdom of God.

No Justice = No Peace, and true Islam means Spiritual Peace
just as true Christianity means true Charity for all humanity.

Sharia rejects anything but the Koran. "There are two primary sources of sharia law: the precepts set forth in the Quranic verses (ayahs), and the example set by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the Sunnah"

Esposito, John (2001), Women in Muslim family law, Syracuse University Press, ISBN 978-0815629085


I hardly think that a bible thumper would be welcome.

Mohammad clearly taught that believers should receive and respect
ALL SENT BY GOD:
which includes
* Jewish Torah
* Christian Scripture
* Islam Quran

If people miss this, that is like people running govt
without any sense of the U.S. Constitution.

It happens but that's why our govt is out of bounds
with the principles that are supposed to be running the ship.

Every large collective organization loses sight of its original founding.
The Catholic church fell into corruption and lost sight of the message.

Happens with any large group because of the bureaucracy
of trying to manage collective resources and power in a concentrated top down structure.

Politics, pecking order, and pandering to conflicts of interest are always going to corrupt such structures,
and that's why we need checks and balances.

Christianity is supposed to have members CHECK each other,
and also the Civil Laws and Authority (including Natural laws under the Constitution)
are supposed to be respected as part of Christianity.

So if you practice Islam as intended, this would include
both Christian/Scriptural laws GIVEN BY GOD
and Natural/Constitutional laws GIVEN by GOD.

All the truly peaceful and charitable Muslims I know
respect Christianity and Constitutional principles.
So there are ways to tell who is a mature follower
and who is just abusing religion for political takeover, force and power.

Which Mohammad are you talking about? The one before he rose to power, where he appeared more conciliatory and called the Jews and Christians "people of the Book". Or the one after, who massacred all the Jews of Mecca and told all Jews and Christians to Submit to Islam or die?

You realize there were two Mohammad's, and the true one (the mass murdering terrorist thief) came out after he gained some power?

Well which role did George Bush play that is more in keeping with Christianity? Serving as head of the military where many troops arecgiven explicit orders to enter shoot to kill without due process afforded civilians during peacetime?

Or the civilian George Bush who prays in church, overcame addiction behavior, and gives to charity?

In civilian life you practice civilian law.

In war time you follow military policy.

No, you dont take these out of context anfld thats where jihadists go wrong.

True Muslim believers follow God and civilian laws as Christians do by scriptures on respecting civilian
Authority.

Thats how you csn tell the difference.

Militants are dangerous when theyget lawless regardless what religion or faith they abuse. Islam is esoecially endangered if followers are segregated away from Chtistians and Jews as you seem to prefer. This is hurting the ppl and makes them vulnerable to divide and conquer. So it is a wiser strategy to unite in Christ the Jews Christians and Muslims as taught in Islam. There is strength in unity in Christ, this iscwhat we should teach not division!

How did we get from Mohammad to Bush. I didn't know Bush is the symbol of Christianity. Sounds like someone has Bush derangement syndrome. Was Obama or Clinton "in keeping" when they ordered drones to take out targets from 10,000 feet in the air?

"Regardless of what faith they abuse"? I don't think today's Christians or Jews are citing their faith as a reason to slaughter people of other faiths, like Muslims are.

So you think you can approach a Muslim jihadist and have him unite in Christ? Oh ok. Do you have beheading insurance? Good luck.

1. I'm saying military law and wartime is a Different Context
from civilian law in peacetime.
Same with Islam -- if you mix the
Two contexts you make the same mistake as Jihadists. Civilized people respect due process of law which is missing from militant regimes acting as judge jury and executioner with no checks or separation of powers. Trying to compare jihadist with islam is like trying to compare poltical fascism with constitutionalism. You can Cite the same laws but totally come out with different policies.

2. No, thats not what im saying.
You can't prevent cancer by cutting out the tumors after the fact. Ypu have to prevent it at the root.

We are talking a about two different contexts.

I agree that once a group gets militant you have to use military force.

You act like thats the only solution but it doesnt
Solve the root cause of abuse.

I Dont disagree with using force when necessary but nclude that context also.

You Roudy are leaving out the other contexts as if they dont exist.

That isnt fair but is insulting to Muslim Jewish and Christian leaders who have been working peaceably on many levels to prevent abuses and war,

You only act like jihadists are the only muslims. Shame on you.

 

[emilynghiem]

So Islam (Iran government) kills women that fight sexual abuse, is that what I am take away from this? That doesn't look good for, ya know, the icky Muslims males. Chopping off heads, stoning parking violators to death. Urinating on humanity for Allah. Islam and her sister, Sharia law, not looking so good right now. Cutting of clitorises...damn. Is all this "Allah's will?"

If you mark out the violence and intolerance in the Koran, you're left with three pages to read.

Yes Roudy

Same with all church and state
Bureaucracy corrupted beyond recognition

Im not denying or belittling the problems with jihad abuse of power to bypass due process.

Im saying we need to stop abuses everywhere in order to enforce laws consistently to stop this violence from escalating out of control

 

[Roudy]

Sharia rejects anything but the Koran. "There are two primary sources of sharia law: the precepts set forth in the Quranic verses (ayahs), and the example set by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the Sunnah"

Esposito, John (2001), Women in Muslim family law, Syracuse University Press, ISBN 978-0815629085


I hardly think that a bible thumper would be welcome.

Mohammad clearly taught that believers should receive and respect
ALL SENT BY GOD:
which includes
* Jewish Torah
* Christian Scripture
* Islam Quran

If people miss this, that is like people running govt
without any sense of the U.S. Constitution.

It happens but that's why our govt is out of bounds
with the principles that are supposed to be running the ship.

Every large collective organization loses sight of its original founding.
The Catholic church fell into corruption and lost sight of the message.

Happens with any large group because of the bureaucracy
of trying to manage collective resources and power in a concentrated top down structure.

Politics, pecking order, and pandering to conflicts of interest are always going to corrupt such structures,
and that's why we need checks and balances.

Christianity is supposed to have members CHECK each other,
and also the Civil Laws and Authority (including Natural laws under the Constitution)
are supposed to be respected as part of Christianity.

So if you practice Islam as intended, this would include
both Christian/Scriptural laws GIVEN BY GOD
and Natural/Constitutional laws GIVEN by GOD.

All the truly peaceful and charitable Muslims I know
respect Christianity and Constitutional principles.
So there are ways to tell who is a mature follower
and who is just abusing religion for political takeover, force and power.

Which Mohammad are you talking about? The one before he rose to power, where he appeared more conciliatory and called the Jews and Christians "people of the Book". Or the one after, who massacred all the Jews of Mecca and told all Jews and Christians to Submit to Islam or die?

You realize there were two Mohammad's, and the true one (the mass murdering terrorist thief) came out after he gained some power?

Well which role did George Bush play that is more in keeping with Christianity? Serving as head of the military where many troops arecgiven explicit orders to enter shoot to kill without due process afforded civilians during peacetime?

Or the civilian George Bush who prays in church, overcame addiction behavior, and gives to charity?

In civilian life you practice civilian law.

In war time you follow military policy.

No, you dont take these out of context anfld thats where jihadists go wrong.

True Muslim believers follow God and civilian laws as Christians do by scriptures on respecting civilian
Authority.

Thats how you csn tell the difference.

Militants are dangerous when theyget lawless regardless what religion or faith they abuse. Islam is esoecially endangered if followers are segregated away from Chtistians and Jews as you seem to prefer. This is hurting the ppl and makes them vulnerable to divide and conquer. So it is a wiser strategy to unite in Christ the Jews Christians and Muslims as taught in Islam. There is strength in unity in Christ, this iscwhat we should teach not division!

How did we get from Mohammad to Bush. I didn't know Bush is the symbol of Christianity. Sounds like someone has Bush derangement syndrome. Was Obama or Clinton "in keeping" when they ordered drones to take out targets from 10,000 feet in the air?

"Regardless of what faith they abuse"? I don't think today's Christians or Jews are citing their faith as a reason to slaughter people of other faiths, like Muslims are.

So you think you can approach a Muslim jihadist and have him unite in Christ? Oh ok. Do you have beheading insurance? Good luck.

1. I'm saying military law and wartime is a Different Context
from civilian law in peacetime.
Same with Islam -- if you mix the
Two contexts you make the same mistake as Jihadists. Civilized people respect due process of law which is missing from militant regimes acting as judge jury and executioner with no checks or separation of powers. Trying to compare jihadist with islam is like trying to compare poltical fascism with constitutionalism. You can Cite the same laws but totally come out with different policies.

2. No, thats not what im saying.
You can't prevent cancer by cutting out the tumors after the fact. Ypu have to prevent it at the root.

We are talking a about two different contexts.

I agree that once a group gets militant you have to use military force.

You act like thats the only solution but it doesnt
Solve the root cause of abuse.

I Dont disagree with using force when necessary but nclude that context also.

You Roudy are leaving out the other contexts as if they dont exist.

That isnt fair but is insulting to Muslim Jewish and Christian leaders who have been working peaceably on many levels to prevent abuses and war,

You only act like jihadists are the only muslims. Shame on you.

The root cause is Islamism and Shariah law, they are incompatible with democracy, freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. Whereas the two other religions you are comparing Islam to have undergone a reformation and modernization process and have learned to coexist in modern societies, Islam has clearly shown that it cannot. Not all faiths are the same in every aspect.

Putting Islam on the same plateau as other faiths, considering the behavior of its followers, is a big mistake people in the West often make.

And right now, it's the Islamists and jihadists that are in control of Muslim societies and hearts and minds. Which is why Muslims are flocking to groups like ISIS or Hamas.

During Nazi Germany there were many Germans who weren't necessarily on the same page as the Nazis, but the fact remained that it was the Nazis that controlled the nation and its destiny.

 

[emilynghiem]

Mohammad clearly taught that believers should receive and respect
ALL SENT BY GOD:
which includes
* Jewish Torah
* Christian Scripture
* Islam Quran

If people miss this, that is like people running govt
without any sense of the U.S. Constitution.

It happens but that's why our govt is out of bounds
with the principles that are supposed to be running the ship.

Every large collective organization loses sight of its original founding.
The Catholic church fell into corruption and lost sight of the message.

Happens with any large group because of the bureaucracy
of trying to manage collective resources and power in a concentrated top down structure.

Politics, pecking order, and pandering to conflicts of interest are always going to corrupt such structures,
and that's why we need checks and balances.

Christianity is supposed to have members CHECK each other,
and also the Civil Laws and Authority (including Natural laws under the Constitution)
are supposed to be respected as part of Christianity.

So if you practice Islam as intended, this would include
both Christian/Scriptural laws GIVEN BY GOD
and Natural/Constitutional laws GIVEN by GOD.

All the truly peaceful and charitable Muslims I know
respect Christianity and Constitutional principles.
So there are ways to tell who is a mature follower
and who is just abusing religion for political takeover, force and power.

Which Mohammad are you talking about? The one before he rose to power, where he appeared more conciliatory and called the Jews and Christians "people of the Book". Or the one after, who massacred all the Jews of Mecca and told all Jews and Christians to Submit to Islam or die?

You realize there were two Mohammad's, and the true one (the mass murdering terrorist thief) came out after he gained some power?

Well which role did George Bush play that is more in keeping with Christianity? Serving as head of the military where many troops arecgiven explicit orders to enter shoot to kill without due process afforded civilians during peacetime?

Or the civilian George Bush who prays in church, overcame addiction behavior, and gives to charity?

In civilian life you practice civilian law.

In war time you follow military policy.

No, you dont take these out of context anfld thats where jihadists go wrong.

True Muslim believers follow God and civilian laws as Christians do by scriptures on respecting civilian
Authority.

Thats how you csn tell the difference.

Militants are dangerous when theyget lawless regardless what religion or faith they abuse. Islam is esoecially endangered if followers are segregated away from Chtistians and Jews as you seem to prefer. This is hurting the ppl and makes them vulnerable to divide and conquer. So it is a wiser strategy to unite in Christ the Jews Christians and Muslims as taught in Islam. There is strength in unity in Christ, this iscwhat we should teach not division!

How did we get from Mohammad to Bush. I didn't know Bush is the symbol of Christianity. Sounds like someone has Bush derangement syndrome. Was Obama or Clinton "in keeping" when they ordered drones to take out targets from 10,000 feet in the air?

"Regardless of what faith they abuse"? I don't think today's Christians or Jews are citing their faith as a reason to slaughter people of other faiths, like Muslims are.

So you think you can approach a Muslim jihadist and have him unite in Christ? Oh ok. Do you have beheading insurance? Good luck.

1. I'm saying military law and wartime is a Different Context
from civilian law in peacetime.
Same with Islam -- if you mix the
Two contexts you make the same mistake as Jihadists. Civilized people respect due process of law which is missing from militant regimes acting as judge jury and executioner with no checks or separation of powers. Trying to compare jihadist with islam is like trying to compare poltical fascism with constitutionalism. You can Cite the same laws but totally come out with different policies.

2. No, thats not what im saying.
You can't prevent cancer by cutting out the tumors after the fact. Ypu have to prevent it at the root.

We are talking a about two different contexts.

I agree that once a group gets militant you have to use military force.

You act like thats the only solution but it doesnt
Solve the root cause of abuse.

I Dont disagree with using force when necessary but nclude that context also.

You Roudy are leaving out the other contexts as if they dont exist.

That isnt fair but is insulting to Muslim Jewish and Christian leaders who have been working peaceably on many levels to prevent abuses and war,

You only act like jihadists are the only muslims. Shame on you.

The root cause is Islamism and Shariah law, they are incompatible with democracy, freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. Whereas the two other religions you are comparing Islam to have undergone a reformation and modernization process and have learned to coexist in modern societies, Islam has clearly shown that it cannot. Not all faiths are the same in every aspect.

Putting Islam on the same plateau as other faiths, considering the behavior of its followers, is a big mistake people in the West often make.

And right now, it's the Islamists and jihadists that are in control of Muslim societies and hearts and minds. Which is why Muslims are flocking to groups like ISIS or Hamas.

During Nazi Germany there were many Germans who weren't necessarily on the same page as the Nazis, but the fact remained that it was the Nazis that controlled the nation and its destiny.

Hey Roudy
I think we are talking about TWO DIFFERENT things.

There are Jihadists who do not believe in separating church and state.
A friend who was abused by Muslim parents explained there are some
groups who teach Islam as NOT separating church and state but having absolute authority of both under God.

That is NOT what I am talking about!

My friend Mustafaa Carroll of Houston CAIR teaches
Islam as having NO COMPULSION in religion, that faith by nature
must be freely chosen or it is FALSE RELIGION if it is FORCED on people.
That is just plain common sense.

He teaches that Mohammad taught the same principles of natural
laws and democracy that come from the same "God of Nature"
that our own Constitutional laws of democratic govt came from.
So these are compatible!

So Roudy these are not the same things.
But are as opposite as Night and Day!

I AGREE with you that ANY religion that is abused to mix military/state
authority with religious ideology is dangerous. I don't disagree with what
you are saying at all.

I am saying the problem is BIGGER than just Jihad terrorists.

When China uses govt to control religious practice, it gets totally out of hand also.

So you CANNOT blame the problems in China on Jihadist Terrorists.

The SAME problem of mixing govt authority with religion causes
problems in China as it does with any other country or group that takes over govt
and imposes and abuses religion to control the people by fear.

Do you see what I am saying?

I think my approach INCLUDES what you are saying about Jihadists and terrorists,
but goes much broader to include abuses in China and across Africa, not just Arab countries
that have Jihadist/Terrorists/Extreme Islamists taking over govt.

I hope this is clear!
Thanks, Roudy!