Internet Crimes

[Madeline]

Since the internet limits one to uploading and downloading content, what criminal acts can be committed using only the 'net?

* Any crime of speech. E.g., offering a bribe or attempting to extort.

* Bullying. Chasing another person around a site or from site to site, flaming them, encouraging others to do so, etc. Bullying itself has not yet been criminalized. But underlying crimes can included stalking, harrassment, some forms of sexual predation, etc.

* Threats. Any threat specific to a member and specific as to harm, especially harm to be inflicted by illegal means. E.g., "get off this site or I will hack into your bank account".

Let the discussion begin, folks.

 

[random3434]

Don't forget offering a $1000 reward for a posters real name and address, because they were mad they got neg repped!

 

[Madeline]

Don't forget offering a $1000 reward for a posters real name and address, because they were mad they got neg repped!

Here on USMB, Ma'am? Unless it was VERY obvious the poster was joking, I would think that would get someone in trouble. That's a stupid joke -- like playing at having a bomb whilst on airport grounds.

Merely asking for data mining services is not per se illegal. But since nobody can do a background on any USMB-er without hacking USMB's servers, that's an offer to pay money in exchange for a criminal act. It is not a bribe, per se, because bribes are only offered to people "acting under color of law". But ANY step forward by a 2nd person and that's Conspiracy.

Any internet crime that also involves ANY activity in real life is VERY likely to result in a long prison sentence for anyone involved. The students who harrassed Phoebe Prince until she suicided are about to find that out, to their sorrow.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Only $1000? Cheap stuff......

 

[Madeline]

Only $1000? Cheap stuff......

Wouldn't matter if the offer was a penny, or there was no offer and only a mere request. My answer would not change.

 

[tommywho70x]

i like the cut of your jib madeline. you like dirty old men?

i beez a hippie artist with a generous and fun audience, a trust account AND health care coverage.

the internet crimes you mention are so trivial that with the staffing levels available to high tech crime teams of the various agencies, they are below threshold for any criminal action.

the FBI requires actual damage in excess of $50 K to open an investigation. they were already overwhelmed by illegal pornography and financial crimes before the war on terrorism got ramped up.

victims are invariably directed to consult an attorney and seek relief through civil process.

then you also encounter privacy policies of service providers to contend with in attempting to acquire legal information about the person or persons harming you.

one crime i encounter in my e-mail and the mail of my clients and associates is the advance fee fraud letter sometimes called the nigerian 419 scam. these and the lottery scams are not prosecuted by any agency i know of. i ran into one that was actually a mass snail mailing that was reporting losses in the 10's of millions and there was no prosecution or attempt to investigate.

the extremist dung flinging monkeys that inhabit this and similar boards are non-entities pushing their grist through the mill.


grin and bear it and seek out the folks who have a little more highly refined social graces and expressive abilities.

 

[Madeline]

i like the cut of your jib madeline. you like dirty old men?

i beez a hippie artist with a generous and fun audience, a trust account AND health care coverage.

the internet crimes you mention are so trivial that with the staffing levels available to high tech crime teams of the various agencies, they are below threshold for any criminal action.

the FBI requires actual damage in excess of $50 K to open an investigation. they were already overwhelmed by illegal pornography and financial crimes before the war on terrorism got ramped up.

victims are invariably directed to consult an attorney and seek relief through civil process.

then you also encounter privacy policies of service providers to contend with in attempting to acquire legal information about the person or persons harming you.

one crime i encounter in my e-mail and the mail of my clients and associates is the advance fee fraud letter sometimes called the nigerian 419 scam. these and the lottery scams are not prosecuted by any agency i know of. i ran into one that was actually a mass snail mailing that was reporting losses in the 10's of millions and there was no prosecution or attempt to investigate.

the extremist dung flinging monkeys that inhabit this and similar boards are non-entities pushing their grist through the mill.


grin and bear it and seek out the folks who have a little more highly refined social graces and expressive abilities.

One client of mine has terminal breast cancer and revealed that on a social networking site. Some sadist got ahold of the information and harrassed her along with 500 of her closest friends. All over the site, and from site to site. When she does pass on, she has left instructions with her husband to contact me. We will be seeking wrongful death damages, because that stress shortened her life. Should commence this year, sadly.

Every time you log on to a web site you invisibly stamp it with your Internet Protocol address. This number is unique to you, at that ISP terminal, and with it I can find anyone. Believe me, proof will not be a problem.

You're quite right about most law enforcement agencies. Nothing will be done, most times. UNLESS:

* Threats involve real life -- e.g., you receive an email from your harrasser which contains an image of your home. They had to drive by your house to take that photo.

* Real life impact is severe. In at least two cases of suicide, the harrasser is sitting in prison now. More will be joining them shortly.

Anyone who comes onto a political message board with delicate little feelings should get off it -- that was an unwise decision. This is not a great place for the faint of heart, and I am not advocating we all commence suing anyone here who insults us.

But we CAN sue anyone who threatens us. Successfully. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Are ya feeling me yet, the USMB-er who inspired this thread?

BTW, tommywho, older men are very sexy. Everyone knows that.

*Winks*

 

[tommywho70x]

i haven't even absorbed and sorted out the who's who and what's what of the posting patterns, diatribes and gangs of the more devolutionary of the critters that inhabit this little corner of the web yet, but i haven't seen anything even approaching what you allude to here.

the most loathsome is still pretty bland, childish and redundant.

 

[Madeline]

i haven't even absorbed and sorted out the who's who and what's what of the posting patterns, diatribes and gangs of the more devolutionary of the critters that inhabit this little corner of the web yet, but i haven't seen anything even approaching what you allude to here.

the most loathsome is still pretty bland, childish and redundant.

As with almost any site, there's a back channel here, tommywho. You ain't seeing everything, just what is posted in public.

But if it would be criminal if said on a thread, it is STILL criminal if said in the back channel. In some circumstances, even moreso.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

well first off, an IP does not mean you can find anyone. In fact, chances are low. If someone uses a public computer, or even a computer on a shared home network, like if they have several roommates all sharing the same router, you can't track down one person. Even then, many ISPs cycle IP addresses and either don't disclose them, or can't really narrow it down for you.

But real crimes can occur on the internet. Money changes hands very readily, and can be stolen, for example.

 

[Sherry]

One client of mine has terminal breast cancer and revealed that on a social networking site. Some sadist got ahold of the information and harrassed her along with 500 of her closest friends. All over the site, and from site to site. When she does pass on, she has left instructions with her husband to contact me. We will be seeking wrongful death damages, because that stress shortened her life. Should commence this year, sadly.

Every time you log on to a web site you invisibly stamp it with your Internet Protocol address. This number is unique to you, at that ISP terminal, and with it I can find anyone. Believe me, proof will not be a problem.

You're quite right about most law enforcement agencies. Nothing will be done, most times. UNLESS:

* Threats involve real life -- e.g., you receive an email from your harrasser which contains an image of your home. They had to drive by your house to take that photo.

* Real life impact is severe. In at least two cases of suicide, the harrasser is sitting in prison now. More will be joining them shortly.

Anyone who comes onto a political message board with delicate little feelings should get off it -- that was an unwise decision. This is not a great place for the faint of heart, and I am not advocating we all commence suing anyone here who insults us.

But we CAN sue anyone who threatens us. Successfully. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Are ya feeling me yet, the USMB-er who inspired this thread?

BTW, tommywho, older men are very sexy. Everyone knows that.

*Winks*

A special amen to the part I bolded. As for those who slither through the back channels, most will have no problem recognizing them as a snake. If their venom is found to be poisonous, then admin will cut off their head.

 

[Madeline]

well first off, an IP does not mean you can find anyone. In fact, chances are low. If someone uses a public computer, or even a computer on a shared home network, like if they have several roommates all sharing the same router, you can't track down one person. Even then, many ISPs cycle IP addresses and either don't disclose them, or can't really narrow it down for you.

But real crimes can occur on the internet. Money changes hands very readily, and can be stolen, for example.

Unless it involved hacking someone's bank account -- which is tough as hell to do -- I wouldn't be all that helpful to someone defrauded of money via the 'net. It is people who have lost their privacy, or their peace of mind, or even their lives as a result of 'net crimes that gets to me.

It happens, it happens a lot and it is happening to someone now. It is criminal and it CAN be stopped.

 

[blu]

Unless it involved hacking someone's bank account -- which is tough as hell to do -- I wouldn't be all that helpful to someone defrauded of money via the 'net. It is people who have lost their privacy, or their peace of mind, or even their lives as a result of 'net crimes that gets to me.

It happens, it happens a lot and it is happening to someone now. It is criminal and it CAN be stopped.

I really don't think you know what you are talking about. ACH frauds occur every second through stolen bank accounts

 

[blu]

Since the internet limits one to uploading and downloading content, what criminal acts can be committed using only the 'net?

* Any crime of speech. E.g., offering a bribe or attempting to extort.

* Bullying. Chasing another person around a site or from site to site, flaming them, encouraging others to do so, etc. Bullying itself has not yet been criminalized. But underlying crimes can included stalking, harrassment, some forms of sexual predation, etc.

* Threats. Any threat specific to a member and specific as to harm, especially harm to be inflicted by illegal means. E.g., "get off this site or I will hack into your bank account".

Let the discussion begin, folks.

are you joking? first - you can do a lot more than just upload or download content, you can create files (such as backdoors, virus, etc on machines), execute those files to then control the machine. you can also modify files, say modify a message boards login script to log all usernames and passwords entered, and you can delete files ( i think you can see the usefulness of that).

you can also upload "bad" stuff such as child porn, illegal movies, music, etc and then host your content from hacked machines. you can also upload hacking type tools onto other hosts to then automatically break into other machines for you.

as for downloading, you can get tons of info from compromised machines such as SSN, CC, bank info, etc.

your whole topic is really flawed and you sound like some CNN reporter trying to justify laws regulating facebook and myspace

 

[Madeline]

I sound like a CNN reporter? Yikes! I think I'm flattered but I dunno, maybe I'm insulted. I guess it doesn't matter...I'm not.

Back to the discussion at hand, crimes against persons via the internet:

Take the 2007 case of Lori Drew, who engaged in a pattern of harrassment which led to the suicide of a 12 year old girl. Drew, a 49 year old housewife with no criminal record, joined MySpace in the guise of a 16 year old boy and befriended Megan Meiers, the friend of Drew's daughter and the child of Drew's neighbors. In her guise as the non-existant "Josh Evans", Drew emotionally seduced Meiers, a child she knew to have been under the care of a pyschiatrist. Once Meiers was entralled with "Josh", Drew dumped Meiers and publically humiliated her, causing Meiers to take her own life.

Drew's cases has led to the passage of many new laws around the country and at the federal level. Anyone trying this sort of thing on today is not likely to remain free, as Drew seems to be now. (Last time I researched this case, Drew was incarcerated.)

These new laws may help in the prosecution of the students involved in harrassing Phoebe Prince, causing her suicide.

Or look at the rash of suicides touched off by the internet, a phenomena especially prevalent among teenaged children.

Death Hyperlink: Internet Suicide Pacts

Death Toll For Internet Teen Suicides Hits 17

There have been murders incited by false profiles on the internet. People can be quite gullible and open their hearts and minds to the folks who email and IM them, without stopping to wonder if they are truly corresponding with who they believe they are. This is especially true of children, but no one is 100% safe from harm merely because of their age or experience.

It does not pay to assume that the 'net is harmless, or that whilst you have your pc powered down, no harm can come to you or yours.

 

[blu]

I sound like a CNN reporter? Yikes! I think I'm flattered but I dunno, maybe I'm insulted. I guess it doesn't matter...I'm not.

Back to the discussion at hand, crimes against persons via the internet:

Take the 2007 case of Lori Drew, who engaged in a pattern of harrassment which led to the suicide of a 12 year old girl. Drew, a 49 year old housewife with no criminal record, joined MySpace in the guise of a 16 year old boy and befriended Megan Meiers, the friend of Drew's daughter and the child of Drew's neighbors. In her guise as the non-existant "Josh Evans", Drew emotionally seduced Meiers, a child she knew to have been under the care of a pyschiatrist. Once Meiers was entralled with "Josh", Drew dumped Meiers and publically humiliated her, causing Meiers to take her own life.

Drew's cases has led to the passage of many new laws around the country and at the federal level. Anyone trying this sort of thing on today is not likely to remain free, as Drew seems to be now. (Last time I researched this case, Drew was incarcerated.)

These new laws may help in the prosecution of the students involved in harrassing Phoebe Prince, causing her suicide.

Or look at the rash of suicides touched off by the internet, a phenomena especially prevalent among teenaged children.

Death Hyperlink: Internet Suicide Pacts

Death Toll For Internet Teen Suicides Hits 17

There have been murders incited by false profiles on the internet. People can be quite gullible and open their hearts and minds to the folks who email and IM them, without stopping to wonder if they are truly corresponding with who they believe they are. This is especially true of children, but no one is 100% safe from harm merely because of their age or experience.

It does not pay to assume that the 'net is harmless, or that whilst you have your pc powered down, no harm can come to you or yours.

I understand the internet harassment stuff but its a tiny tiny fraction of crime on the computer or what crimes can be done on the computer

 

[Madeline]

I sound like a CNN reporter? Yikes! I think I'm flattered but I dunno, maybe I'm insulted. I guess it doesn't matter...I'm not.

Back to the discussion at hand, crimes against persons via the internet:

Take the 2007 case of Lori Drew, who engaged in a pattern of harrassment which led to the suicide of a 12 year old girl. Drew, a 49 year old housewife with no criminal record, joined MySpace in the guise of a 16 year old boy and befriended Megan Meiers, the friend of Drew's daughter and the child of Drew's neighbors. In her guise as the non-existant "Josh Evans", Drew emotionally seduced Meiers, a child she knew to have been under the care of a pyschiatrist. Once Meiers was entralled with "Josh", Drew dumped Meiers and publically humiliated her, causing Meiers to take her own life.

Drew's cases has led to the passage of many new laws around the country and at the federal level. Anyone trying this sort of thing on today is not likely to remain free, as Drew seems to be now. (Last time I researched this case, Drew was incarcerated.)

These new laws may help in the prosecution of the students involved in harrassing Phoebe Prince, causing her suicide.

Or look at the rash of suicides touched off by the internet, a phenomena especially prevalent among teenaged children.

Death Hyperlink: Internet Suicide Pacts

Death Toll For Internet Teen Suicides Hits 17

There have been murders incited by false profiles on the internet. People can be quite gullible and open their hearts and minds to the folks who email and IM them, without stopping to wonder if they are truly corresponding with who they believe they are. This is especially true of children, but no one is 100% safe from harm merely because of their age or experience.

It does not pay to assume that the 'net is harmless, or that whilst you have your pc powered down, no harm can come to you or yours.

I understand the internet harassment stuff but its a tiny tiny fraction of crime on the computer or what crimes can be done on the computer

blu, I would not want to leave anyone with the impression that half of us are criminals....but this is not a rare phenomena, and it happens more and more all the time.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Don't forget offering a $1000 reward for a posters real name and address, because they were mad they got neg repped!

Did I offer $1000? I must have been really drunk.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

well first off, an IP does not mean you can find anyone. In fact, chances are low. If someone uses a public computer, or even a computer on a shared home network, like if they have several roommates all sharing the same router, you can't track down one person. Even then, many ISPs cycle IP addresses and either don't disclose them, or can't really narrow it down for you.

But real crimes can occur on the internet. Money changes hands very readily, and can be stolen, for example.

You are talking out of your ass.

 

[blu]

well first off, an IP does not mean you can find anyone. In fact, chances are low.

wrong

If someone uses a public computer, or even a computer on a shared home network, like if they have several roommates all sharing the same router, you can't track down one person.

wrong again. many routers track MAC addresses and upstream ISPs log *everything* and they do turn it over quickly with subponea. also, if forensics investigators get their hands on any of the machines invovled they can quickly say whether any of the machines performed the illegal activity as most people are clueless about how to proper cover their tracks.