Interesting argument against the Ground Zero Mosque

[DiveCon]

Knock it off with OKC you idiot, McVeigh wasn't a Christian. He was raised Catholic but had abandoned the religion long before he became a terrorist. He is quoted as saying that science was his religion and he believed in a god, but not God.

McVeigh No Christian; Worshipped Himself; Said “Science Is My Religion”

You're not getting the point ConHog. It doesn't matter if McVeigh believed in the flying spaghetti monster. The point is you cannot blame everyone else for the radicals of a religion or matter of fact any group.

Should I start blaming the GOP for the birthers and people who want to kill Obama?

Should I start blaming the Dems for the truthers?

I mean, we have a thing called free will. Anyone call themselves a proponent, supporter, or a member of any religion. Whether they actually are is a whole different story.

NO, the point you are missing is Mc Veigh didnt do it in the name of ANY religion, but YOU want to claim he did
that is a STRAWMAN

 

[B. Kidd]

Obviously, the distance doesn't matter to you .
Geez, I didn't know the majority of OKC victims were Islamofascists. You're a real splooge-fountain of wisdom and knowledge .

So wait, now the religion of the victims matter? What about the Muslims who died on 9/11? How about you stop using what the victims might or might not of thought as justification for your bigotry?

I'm not playing the bigotry card. If the mosque near ground zero is sincerely intended to honor all who died on 9/11, and is not political, like I posted, it should include (I hate repeating myself!...but,...Mod'Hussein'bert doesn't read too well)....it should include a non-denominational chapel AND a synagogue.
When it comes to bigotry, Modbert does not see the world as it truly is, but as he/she/it, TRULY IS...ahole-1.

 

[Modbert]

name any church that openly advocates blowing up abortion clinics

while the Wahhabi sect of Islam does openly advocate terrorism

There are extreme Christian sects out there as well. I don't get the point in trying to blame any religion or group on the radicals who call themselves part of that group.

Or are you trying to tell me there are no extreme sects of Christianity out there?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

Actually, it kinda was, in a way.

State Shintoism led to ultranationalist and facist ideals during the Showa period (the reign of Hirohito).
Sh?wa period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Woyzeck]

holy strawman batman
you have pulled out so many just in this thread

So if treating all Christians the same as their bad apples (child molesters, abortion clinic bombers) a strawman, that makes treating all Muslims the same as their bad apples (terrorists)...

If you guessed a strawman, you'd be correct.

Here's a partial list. you match me one for one with Christian terrorists and then we can honestly compare the two religions

DELETED due to copyright infringement- Care

So, I take it you believe all Muslims to be the same as their radical terrorists? I guess you must also think Christians are the same as David Koresh, or Tim McVeigh. Wow Conhog, never knew you hated religions so much. I'm sure you flip off and piss on Christians for all they've done? I mean, they're steeped in such violence and molestation. Such is the logic you're using here.

holy strawman batman
you have pulled out so many just in this thread

So if treating all Christians the same as their bad apples (child molesters, abortion clinic bombers) a strawman, that makes treating all Muslims the same as their bad apples (terrorists)...

If you guessed a strawman, you'd be correct.

no where in this thread have i said the Islamic center shouldnt be built
so pull your head out of your ass and read what i said
he is using things that are total strawmen as examples

I never said you did, but I like to think I was saying Bert's point better than he was.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Obviously, the distance doesn't matter to you .
Geez, I didn't know the majority of OKC victims were Islamofascists. You're a real splooge-fountain of wisdom and knowledge .

So wait, now the religion of the victims matter? What about the Muslims who died on 9/11? How about you stop using what the victims might or might not of thought as justification for your bigotry?

I'm not playing the bigotry card. If the mosque near ground zero is sincerely intended to honor all who died on 9/11, and is not political, like I posted, it should include (I hate repeating myself!...but,...Mod'Hussein'bert doesn't read too well)....it should include a non-denominational chapel AND a synagogue.
When it comes to bigotry, Modbert does not see the world as it truly is, but as he/she/it, TRULY IS...ahole-1.

Why should it have a non-denominational chapel or a synagogue? It's an Islamic cultural center. Like the YMCA is the Young Mens Christian Association.

 

[DiveCon]

name any church that openly advocates blowing up abortion clinics

while the Wahhabi sect of Islam does openly advocate terrorism

There are extreme Christian sects out there as well. I don't get the point in trying to blame any religion or group on the radicals who call themselves part of that group.

Or are you trying to tell me there are no extreme sects of Christianity out there?

point out that sect, and i'll condemn them

 

[Modbert]

[
point out that sect, and i'll condemn them

Okay? And Muslims never condemn the radical sects in their religion?

 

[DiveCon]

[
point out that sect, and i'll condemn them

Okay? And Muslims never condemn the radical sects in their religion?

way to miss the point AGAIN

 

[Modbert]

way to miss the point AGAIN

I never missed any point, but you seem to be missing mine.

 

[DiveCon]

way to miss the point AGAIN

I never missed any point, but you seem to be missing mine.

no, you are claiming that Atta didnt do what he did in the name is Islam, and that is just plain FALSE

they actually had recordings of what they said as they were crashing
and if screaming "Allu Ackbaar"(sp?) isnt doing it in the name of their religion then what the hell was it


btw, i dont recall McVeigh ever claiming anything about any religion

 

[ConHog]

So if treating all Christians the same as their bad apples (child molesters, abortion clinic bombers) a strawman, that makes treating all Muslims the same as their bad apples (terrorists)...

If you guessed a strawman, you'd be correct.

Here's a partial list. you match me one for one with Christian terrorists and then we can honestly compare the two religions

* 26 February 1993 – World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.
* 13 March 1993 – 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 250 dead, 700 injured.
* 28 July 1994 – Buenos Aires, Argentina. Vehicle suicide bombing attack against AMIA building, the local Jewish community representation. 85 dead, more than 300 injured.
* 24 December 1994 – Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
* 25 June 1996 – Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
* 17 November 1997 – Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 68 foreign tourists killed.
* 14 February 1998 – Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.
* 7 August 1998 – 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
* 4 September 1999 – A series of bombing attacks in several cities of Russia, nearly 300 killed.
* 12 October 2000 – Attack on the USS cole in the Yemeni port of Aden.
* 11 September 2001 – 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.[158]
* 13 December 2001 – Suicide attack on Indian parliament in New Delhi by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. 7 dead, 12 injured.
* 27 March 2002 – Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 30 dead, 133 injured.
* 30 March 2002 and 24 November 2002 - Attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India. Total 25 dead.
* 7 May 2002 – Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.
* 24 September 2002 – Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[159][160]
* 12 October 2002 – Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[161]
* 16 May 2003 – Casablanca Attacks – 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafia Jihadia.
* 11 March 2004 – Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured (alleged link to Al-Qaeda).
* 1 September 2004 - Beslan school hostage crisis, approximately 344 civilians including 186 children killed.[162][163]
* 2 November 2004 – The murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.[164]
* 4 February 2005 – Muslim terrorists attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
* 5 July 2005 - Attack at the Hindu Ram temple at Ayodhya, India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism. 6 dead.
* 7 July 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
* 23 July 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
* 29 October 2005 – 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[165]
* 9 November 2005 – 2005 Amman bombings. a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Over 60 killed and 115 injured.[166][167] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[168]
* 7 March 2006 – 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. A series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. 28 killed and over 100 injured.[169]
* 11 July 2006 – 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai, India; a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai. 209 killed and over 700 injured.
* 14 August 2007 – Qahtaniya bombings: Four suicide vehicle bombers massacred nearly 800 members of northern Iraq's Yazidi sect in the deadliest Iraq war's attack to date.
* 26 July 2008 – 2008 Ahmedabad bombings, India. Islamic terrorists detonate at least 21 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 56 dead and 200 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence.[170] Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of terrorists suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India.[171]
* 13 September 2008 – Bombing series in Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 3 people dead.
* 26 November 2008 – Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital, Mumbai. A group calling itself the Deccan Mujaheddin claims responsibility, however, the government of India suspects Islamic terrorists based in Pakistan are responsible. Ajmal Kasab, one of the terrorists, was caught alive.[172][173]
* 25 October 2009. Baghdad, Iraq. During a terrorist attack, two bomber vehicles detonated in the Green Zone, killing at least 155 people and injuring 520.
* 28 October 2009 – Peshawar, Pakistan. A car bomb is detonated in a woman exclusive shopping district, and over 110 killed and over 200 injured.
* 5 November 2009 - Fort Hood shooting, Texas, USA. U.S. Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan, an American Muslim of Palestinian descent, shot and killed 13 people and wounded 30 others at a U.S. Army base.
* 3 December 2009 – Mogadishu, Somalia. A male suicide bomber disguised as a woman detonates in a hotel meeting hall. The hotel was hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students when the blast went off, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.[174]
* 1 January 2010 – Lakki Marwat, Pakistan. A suicide car bomber drove his explosive-laden vehicle into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people.[175]
* 1 May 2010 - New York, New York, USA. Faisal Shahzad, an Islamic Pakistani American who received U.S. citizenship in December 2009, attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square working with the Pakistani Taliban or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.
* 28 May 2010 - Attacks on Ahmadi Mosques Lahore, Pakistan. Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan claimed attacks on two mosques simultaneously belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others.

So, I take it you believe all Muslims to be the same as their radical terrorists? I guess you must also think Christians are the same as David Koresh, or Tim McVeigh. Wow Conhog, never knew you hated religions so much. I'm sure you flip off and piss on Christians for all they've done? I mean, they're steeped in such violence and molestation. Such is the logic you're using here.

So if treating all Christians the same as their bad apples (child molesters, abortion clinic bombers) a strawman, that makes treating all Muslims the same as their bad apples (terrorists)...

If you guessed a strawman, you'd be correct.

no where in this thread have i said the Islamic center shouldnt be built
so pull your head out of your ass and read what i said
he is using things that are total strawmen as examples

I never said you did, but I like to think I was saying Bert's point better than he was.

Again stop with the McVeigh, he was no Christian, by his own words.

But that isn't the point of this mosque debate. The point is that those who want to build it blamed US for 9/11 and are obviously of the more radical brand of Islam and are spitting in our faces. You dipshits keep comparing them to Christians. Well I will give you one, Muslims wanting to build this mosque near 9/11 is akin to any David Koresh followers who are still around wanting to build a 13 story burn victim unit in Waco, TX. How sensitive would that be?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Listen Bert, you can play your little fucking word games all you want , but the fucking fact is Muslims attacked us on 9/11 , and on other occasions but let's just focus on this SINGLE event. They justified it by saying it was because of religion? Stop being stupid. Do you consider the crusades to be a war between Christianity and Islam or we're those people just using religion to justify as well?

While you're at it, read up on the history of Islam, it's a violent , homicidal religion. Why you feel the need to lie to protect them is beyond me, it is what it is.

PS - You show me a video of ordinary Christians CHEERING because a kid got molested and I will condemn the entire religion. There is a giant fundamental difference between a few nuts hiding their evil behind a religion and an entire religion being evil.

Muslims attacked us on 9/11 is like saying Christians attacked us on OKC. The crusaders is a war between people who wanted land, they used religion and made it a holy war to justify it and make people fight said war.

Read up on the history of Islam? Why not go read up on the history of Christianity while your at it? Heck, go read the Old Testament, it's no walk through candyland.

The fact you're willing to condemn a entire religion because a couple people cheered something shows you're a moron of epic proportions.

I fully believe in freedom of religion, and really didn't have a negative opinion of the mosque buing built there until I came across Imam Feisel's "dawa".

In the following pdf, take a serious look at what this obvious radical SOB is calling for. Let alone the fact that the man refuses to disclose where monies are coming from to fund this mosque. Pay very close attention to what that piece of shit is calling for amongst his followers. Pay very close attention to what his plans for this mosque are. It obviously goes far beyond the hopey changey BS he is trying to shove down our throats.

Scroll down to page 7, statements 4 and 5....Go to page 10 and read statement 17, it continues through page 11

www.911familiesforamerica.org/CI/IPT20.pdf

This Imam is a radical piece of shit. The mosque being headed by him, and built in that location is FUCKING WRONG on so many levels.....And loony liberal spin cannot change that fact.....Although i'm sure Modberts young lil' loony liberal ass will try.

 

[DiveCon]

David Koresh followers who are still around wanting to build a 13 story burn victim unit in Waco, TX. How sensitive would that be?

actually, them funding such a project would be very good
you used a poor analogy

 

[ConHog]

way to miss the point AGAIN

I never missed any point, but you seem to be missing mine.

If your point is that your god damned fool who is arguing an indefensible position simply because a few righties are arguing the other side. You're making a good point.

Look little man, we get it , you want them to build the mosque, find whatever, but don't be a total dipshit and claim that Islam had nothing to do with the attacks. It's no coincidence that 80% of what we would consider to be terrorist attacks around the world in the last decade have been committed by MUSLIMS.

Let me ask you another question, since you ignored my last. Why do you think the IRA were so violent in the 80s?

 

[Modbert]

no, you are claiming that Atta didnt do what he did in the name is Islam, and that is just plain FALSE

See post #19. I originally said Islam had nothing to do with 9/11 earlier in the thread, but I edited that accordingly and had posted differently by post #19.

 

[B. Kidd]

So wait, now the religion of the victims matter? What about the Muslims who died on 9/11? How about you stop using what the victims might or might not of thought as justification for your bigotry?

I'm not playing the bigotry card. If the mosque near ground zero is sincerely intended to honor all who died on 9/11, and is not political, like I posted, it should include (I hate repeating myself!...but,...Mod'Hussein'bert doesn't read too well)....it should include a non-denominational chapel AND a synagogue.
When it comes to bigotry, Modbert does not see the world as it truly is, but as he/she/it, TRULY IS...ahole-1.

Why should it have a non-denominational chapel or a synagogue? It's an Islamic cultural center. Like the YMCA is the Young Mens Christian Association.

Out of two concepts that are foreign to you, RESPECT AND SENSITIVITY, that all other major religions have in this day and age.

 

[ConHog]

David Koresh followers who are still around wanting to build a 13 story burn victim unit in Waco, TX. How sensitive would that be?

actually, them funding such a project would be very good
you used a poor analogy

IT would be in VERY poor taste to build the David Koresh Burn Victims Unit in Waco

 

[007]

Osama Bin Laden and his cronies use religion as a end to their means.

That statement would be truer if it said, "islam is the reason osama bin laden kills."

 

[DiveCon]

David Koresh followers who are still around wanting to build a 13 story burn victim unit in Waco, TX. How sensitive would that be?

actually, them funding such a project would be very good
you used a poor analogy

IT would be in VERY poor taste to build the David Koresh Burn Victims Unit in Waco

well, you didnt say to name it after him at first