Interesting argument against the Ground Zero Mosque

[Charles_Main]

So, Let me start by saying I am not making this argument. I heard someone make it today and wanted to know what others thought of it as I found it rather compelling.

Note (I am personally leaning towards being oppose to the mosque being built where they want. But do not think we have a legal means to stop it, and would not support a non legal means)


The argument is that Islam has a tradition of building mosques on sites they have concurred. Now I do not even know it that is true. I mean we all know about the dome of the rock in Israel, but is this something they do all the time? Is it tradition to build mosques on the sites of some victory? If so how do you feel about the Mosque held in that light?

My personal Leaning towards being against it has to do with the loss of life at Ground Zero, The planned Mosques proximity to it, and the fact that the building they want to tear down actually had the landing gear of one of the planes that hit the WTC crash into it. That is How close it is to the site. I feel like they could build it just a few more blocks away and it will alleviate most of the angst about it. I feel that if this mosque and community center is really about reaching out to us, then they should respect the feelings of almost 70% of Americans and build it somewhere else. After all how can you reach out when you are doing something that many Americans are against?

We allow Mosques to be build all over the country, so this is not about discrimination, it is about the site, and the history of it.

However all that said, like I said I do not see any legal way left to stop it, and would not support any non legal way, So while I am personally opposed to it, I recognize their right to build it.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Like I said, this will draw radicals because of it's significance. Law enforcement can have a field day conducting surveilance on every meteorite worshipper that frequents the place. Not too big a tradgedy. In the end the naysayers will get to say "I told you so" if their arguments hold water.

 

[B. Kidd]

They do have the legal right to build it. But, if moderate Muslims were respectful and sensitive to the issue, they would not follow through with building that mosque. Some moderate Muslims have posed, that they're building the mosque to honor the memory of 9/11 victims, but I don't buy that; otherwise they would also incorporate a non-denominational christian chapel and synagogue on the same site if those motives were truly compelling.
Therefore, I believe their motives are political and it also calls into question, in my mind, if there is actually such a Muslim follower, that is truly moderate.

 

[007]

They're doing it to test the will of the American people. They know what happened just a few blocks away, and they know they're pissing off lots of people and being insensitive. But islam isn't about sensitivity. It's about taking over where ever they can. So if our laws are going to actually help them, they're going to exploit them. It's an "in your fucking face you infidel scum" move for that mosque to be built there, and those fucking muslims know it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Do we live up to our values of freedom of religion. or do we do everything we can to stop this?

I say let them be. Ignore it and they will lose the controversy. Fan the flames and people will be more aware and it becomes a symbol. Symbols only have meaning if we give it to them.

 

[007]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

 

[Modbert]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

Uh. There are already Shinto temples/shrines in Hawaii. One is five miles away from Pearl Harbor.

 

[Sherry]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

Immediately following Pearl Harbor, the government (FDR's administration) closed area Japanese schools and Shinto and Buddhist temples.

 

[B. Kidd]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

Uh. There are already Shinto temples/shrines in Hawaii. One is five miles away from Pearl Harbor.

Not within 2 blocks of the U.S.S. Arizona, tho.

 

[Woyzeck]

So, Let me start by saying I am not making this argument. I heard someone make it today and wanted to know what others thought of it as I found it rather compelling.

Note (I am personally leaning towards being oppose to the mosque being built where they want. But do not think we have a legal means to stop it, and would not support a non legal means)


The argument is that Islam has a tradition of building mosques on sites they have concurred. Now I do not even know it that is true. I mean we all know about the dome of the rock in Israel, but is this something they do all the time? Is it tradition to build mosques on the sites of some victory? If so how do you feel about the Mosque held in that light?

My personal Leaning towards being against it has to do with the loss of life at Ground Zero, The planned Mosques proximity to it, and the fact that the building they want to tear down actually had the landing gear of one of the planes that hit the WTC crash into it. That is How close it is to the site. I feel like they could build it just a few more blocks away and it will alleviate most of the angst about it. I feel that if this mosque and community center is really about reaching out to us, then they should respect the feelings of almost 70% of Americans and build it somewhere else. After all how can you reach out when you are doing something that many Americans are against?

We allow Mosques to be build all over the country, so this is not about discrimination, it is about the site, and the history of it.

However all that said, like I said I do not see any legal way left to stop it, and would not support any non legal way, So while I am personally opposed to it, I recognize their right to build it.

Presumably you meant conquered, but no, they built the Dome of the Rock where they did, because they believe that's the location where Muhammad ascended to heaven. Muslims these days build mosques for the same reason Christians build churches. It's a place of worship.

Honestly guys? This is a relative non-issue. There's no reason to panic or anything over this, it's an Islamic community center, the mosque isn't really meant to be the main attraction. The organization and the guy behind it all are seeking to better relations and understanding of Islam in the West. He's even gone on record saying that he thinks terrorism and fanaticism have no place in Islam. Muslims were killed during the WTC attacks too, remember.

If you assume that all Muslims across the world are the same as their worst members (i.e., terrorists), then its only fair if we do the same to members of other religions, too. It would mean that all Christians must want to bomb Oklahoma (which I hear there are Christian churches built near the site of the bombing there), or be as wacko as David Koresh.

 

[Modbert]

Not within 2 blocks of the U.S.S. Arizona, tho.

Seriously, the distance doesn't matter. It's not like they're building the damn thing on Ground Zero.

There are two churches within a block of the OKC Memorial, by your logic we should tear those down too because its insensitive to the victims, asshole.

 

[DiveCon]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

 

[Modbert]

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

It was done in order to attack America because the mastermind, Osama Bin Laden did not like the fact we put troops (especially those of the female gender) on Saudi Arabia soil during the Gulf War. We tend to forget the small facts like the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and his pals, gave him weapons and money to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, and of course were friends with him up until the Gulf War.

 

[ConHog]

If that's the way it is, then I suggest we invite Japan to build a temple to Shinto and/or Buddhism at Pearl Harbor. Let's just say "nothing is off limits in America." There are no boundaries. Have your fun killing us and then build a shrine to celebrate right on top of it. Yeah, that's us Americans. We don't consider anything off limits. We don't give a shit. Just go ahead. It's alright. We're all tolerant. Don't you just love us?

Uh. There are already Shinto temples/shrines in Hawaii. One is five miles away from Pearl Harbor.

5 miles > 1/2 mile AND the Shinto shrine was built there before Pear Harbor was a US Navy installation let alone attacked. MORON

 

[ConHog]

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

And this wasn't done in the name of Islam either. It was done in order to attack America because the mastermind, Osama Bin Laden did not like the fact we put troops (especially those of the female gender) on Saudi Arabia soil during the Gulf War. We tend to forget the small facts like the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and his pals, gave him weapons and money to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, and of course were friends with him up until the Gulf War.

9/11 had nothing to do with Islam.

You're a fool if you believe that Bert. 9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Islam as it was their radical Islamic faith which led them to hate America for having troops in Saudi Arabia , which they of course consider holy Islamic land.

Read a damned history book.

 

[Modbert]

5 miles > 1/2 mile AND the Shinto shrine was built there before Pear Harbor was a US Navy installation let alone attacked. MORON

Okay. So 4 and a half miles is the deal breaker? Or the fact it was there before the attacks? What is this? Grandfathered Bigotry? It's okay if the Mosque was there before 9/11! But after? Screw that!

 

[Woyzeck]

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

And this wasn't done in the name of Islam either. It was done in order to attack America because the mastermind, Osama Bin Laden did not like the fact we put troops (especially those of the female gender) on Saudi Arabia soil during the Gulf War. We tend to forget the small facts like the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and his pals, gave him weapons and money to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, and of course were friends with him up until the Gulf War.

9/11 had nothing to do with Islam.

You're a fool if you believe that Bert. 9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Islam as it was their radical Islamic faith which led them to hate America for having troops in Saudi Arabia , which they of course consider holy Islamic land.

Read a damned history book.

So, if they weren't Muslim but some other religion different than ours, they wouldn't have attacked? They would've stayed home and played nice?

 

[Tom Clancy]

9/11 had nothing to do with Islam.

Come on..

What you explained is one of the reasons, and the other reason was in the name of Islam, Allah and Jihad.

 

[Modbert]

You're a fool if you believe that Bert. 9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Islam as it was their radical Islamic faith which led them to hate America for having troops in Saudi Arabia , which they of course consider holy Islamic land.

Read a damned history book.

I've read plenty on this ConHog. You seem to be missing the point.

If you're going to blame the entire religion of Islam because a couple of radicals decided to use the religion's name in attacking us, then you might as well attacking Christians because of the abortion clinics bombing or the kid molesting scandal in the church.

In fact, using the logic in this thread, we should tear down every church within a half mile of a rape victim because it's insensitive.

 

[DiveCon]

a bit of a difference here, when Japan attacked Pearl, it wasnt done in the name of Shintoism or Buddhism

thats not saying this Islamic center should or shouldnt be built

And this wasn't done in the name of Islam either. It was done in order to attack America because the mastermind, Osama Bin Laden did not like the fact we put troops (especially those of the female gender) on Saudi Arabia soil during the Gulf War. We tend to forget the small facts like the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and his pals, gave him weapons and money to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, and of course were friends with him up until the Gulf War.

9/11 had nothing to do with Islam.

uh, i never said it was in the name of Islam as in representing all of Islam
but the people that did it, most definitely did it in that name of Islam

you just want to excuse it for some strange reason

but dont forget, i dont oppose this Islamic center being built