Insight: GM's Volt: The ugly math of low sales, high costs

[asterism]

It's really sad when Americans cheer for the failure of one of it's own companies and all because of the complete control their ideology has over them. And these same people claim to love their country. Liars.

On another note: Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

So there is market for hybrids. GM just has to figure out how to capture their segment of the market and how to convince the domestic haters of America to buy their cars.

That's a very telling comment. You don't see the problem being a substandard product that's too expensive, you see the problem as one of "convincing" people to buy. That's why left leaning command economics fails. They deal in messaging instead of market, convincing instead of offering.

The Volt is too expensive and 35 miles is too short. In the real world, the Chevy Cruze is a more eco-friendly car at half the cost.

Link

For some people that might work, but for others not so much. Most people don't buy a car based on one single attribute, in your example fuel economy. If people did only buy based on fuel economy for a given size vehicle, then the Cadillac ATS is dead in the water. In size it is somewhere between a Cruze and a Malibu and starts at around $33,000, going up to mid 40s. And it doesn't get the fuel economy of a Cruze or Malibu. But the thing is people also buy this car for the styling, the technology content, and the driving performance.

Back to Volt....Styling compared to Cruze? Some would give the edge to Cruze, but I think most would prefer Volt. Technology content compared to Cruze? And I won't even count the drive system. Both have full capability onscreen Nav with the ability to program directions from your cell phone. Included in Volt, extra cost in Cruze. Volt also has standard front and rear collision alert, rear camera, Sirius XM Radio with option of a 40 gig HD so that you can load your own music or use it to "pause" live radio. Some of this stuff is available in Cruze, but at additional price. Also Volt is a hatchback, so the cargo space is much more usable. I've carried an upright bass in the Volt. Can't do that in a Cruze or a Malibu.

When we decided on Volt, we did not consider Cruze. Doesn't meet our needs. We consider Malibu and Equinox. Our lease price on either of those would have been $80 - $100 less than the lease price on the Volt. Savings has actually been significantly more. But we knew we'd easily save that much in fuel per month and the Volt cargo space is more useable than Malibu cargo space.

That is how car buyers think. Total package, not one attribute or feature. And for what it's worth, the Volt gets better highway fuel economy than any Cruze EXCEPT Eco. And the city fuel economy can be infinite.

You may impress yourself, your family, and fellow advocates with your "analysis" of how the Volt is a good choice but the facts show that it's a failure.

The Volt is a flop and an example of why GM failed before, and a government-owned GM still fails.

 

[expat_panama]

When we decided on Volt, we did not consider Cruze. Doesn't meet our needs. We consider Malibu and Equinox. Our lease price on either of those would have been $80 - $100 less than the lease price on the Volt. Savings has actually been significantly more. But we knew we'd easily save that much in fuel per month and the Volt cargo space is more useable than Malibu cargo space.

That is how car buyers think. Total package, not one attribute or feature. And for what it's worth, the Volt gets better highway fuel economy...

You're not counting---

The money the government spent adds up quickly: $50 billion in TARP bailout funds, a special exemption waiving payment of $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits, an exemption for all product liability on cars sold before the bailout, $360 million in stimulus funds, and the $7,500 tax credit for those who buy the Chevy Volt. GM’s share of other programs is harder to quantify but includes, for example, some of the $15.2 billion that went to Cash for Clunkers. Those costs are in addition to the billions taken from GM’s bondholders by the Obama administration.

Obama and GM Cook the Books - John Lott - National Review Online

--adding up to more than $102,900,000,000 of my taxes, divided by --

In round numbers, Chevrolet says, the 3895 Volts sold

Read more: Chevrolet Volt by the Numbers - Motor Trend

--3,895 = $26,418,485.24 that I gave you so you could 'save' on fuel.

 

[martinjlm]

To be fair, I do remember the CEO of Ford stating that a GM liquidation (not bankruptcy and restructuring, a full liquidation) would hurt them greatly because their many shared suppliers would also fold.

But Ford did run an ad campaign touting their ability to compete without bailouts.

Which can only prove that he couldn't possibly know as much as people on this thread, because he does, after all, have his company producing Electric Vehicles (Ford Focus EV) and Hybrid Vehicles (Fusion and C-Max) and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (Fusion and C-Max). Doesn't he know they are too expensive to produce and nobody will buy them? <-----sarcasm, folks

Ford did run "we didn't take no stinkin' bailout commercials, but pulled them after even they realized it was sort of a cheap shot.

Ford pulled the ads because of political pressure, not the "cheap shot" bullshit.

Your proof of this is......? Or is it just your assumption? Actually, I'll give you this one. I can find enough information on both sides of the coin here. And since someone from the WH did place a call to Ford, I'm sure that carried the most weight.

 

[martinjlm]

......

You may impress yourself, your family, and fellow advocates with your "analysis" of how the Volt is a good choice but the facts show that it's a failure.

The Volt is a flop and an example of why GM failed before, and a government-owned GM still fails.

Ok then, let's count the ways that Volt has failed

It hasn't won any major industry awards. Motor Trend Car of the Year, Automobile Magazine Car of the Year, International Car of the Year at the 2011 International Auto Show, MotorWeek 2011 Driver's Choice Best of the Year, Car and Driver 10 Best in 2011 and 2012, Highest rated compact in JD Power APEAL study 2011 & 2012, 2011 European Car of the Year, Popular Science Best of What's New, 2010, Popular Mechanics 2010 Breakthrough Technology. All of those are bush league made up awards. And there's an even longer list of these who really cares awards.

Customers hate it: I mean after all, only 93% of the customers in a Consumer Reports survey said they would buy the car again. I mean, that 7% that wouldn't buy it again must be the really smart guys that can see through to how much this car sucks. Besides, Porsche owners check in at 91% that would buy it again. That's close enough.

The darn thing just ain't selling: It's only sold about 13,500 units from January 1st to August 30th. No, that doesn't count Opel Amperas or Volts sold in Europe, but who cares what they think anyway. Even if they did preorder 7,000 Amperas even before the first one shipped.

So what if the sales are increasing every month? So what if sales are now somewhere around 2,200 - 2,300 units a month?
Jan.: 603 sold
Feb.: 1,023 sold
Mar.: 2,289 sold
Apr.: 1,462 sold
May : 1,680 sold
June: 1,760 sold
July: 1,849 sold
Aug.: 2,831 sold

Yep, that all adds up to one big fail.

 

[martinjlm]

When we decided on Volt, we did not consider Cruze. Doesn't meet our needs. We consider Malibu and Equinox. Our lease price on either of those would have been $80 - $100 less than the lease price on the Volt. Savings has actually been significantly more. But we knew we'd easily save that much in fuel per month and the Volt cargo space is more useable than Malibu cargo space.

That is how car buyers think. Total package, not one attribute or feature. And for what it's worth, the Volt gets better highway fuel economy...

You're not counting---

The money the government spent adds up quickly: $50 billion in TARP bailout funds, a special exemption waiving payment of $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits, an exemption for all product liability on cars sold before the bailout, $360 million in stimulus funds, and the $7,500 tax credit for those who buy the Chevy Volt. GM’s share of other programs is harder to quantify but includes, for example, some of the $15.2 billion that went to Cash for Clunkers. Those costs are in addition to the billions taken from GM’s bondholders by the Obama administration.

Obama and GM Cook the Books - John Lott - National Review Online

--adding up to more than $102,900,000,000 of my taxes, divided by --

In round numbers, Chevrolet says, the 3895 Volts sold

Read more: Chevrolet Volt by the Numbers - Motor Trend

--3,895 = $26,418,485.24 that I gave you so you could 'save' on fuel.

Your math is laughably faulty. If you were to assume none of the TARP money is to be paid back (it is buying paid back, although slowly) then the $50 B would be amortized over all 9+ million cars GM makes per year, and would likely spread out over several years. If you assume Over three years (sure it's longer than that) then it would be $50B divided by 27 million vehicles, or roughly $1,850 per vehicle GM sells. Not the ridiculous number you came up with.

Also, where did you get your Volt sales number from? Jan 1, 2012 through August 31, 2012 sales are at about 13,500. Sales are starting to settle in around 2,200 - 2,300 per month. You're obviously quoting really old data.

As for the $7,500 tax incentive? Well if that pisses you off, you need to also start complaint about Nissan Leaf (built in Japan), Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid (built in Japan), Fisker Karma (built in Finland), Tesla Roadster and Tesla S (built in California), Ford Focus EV, (built in Michigan), Mitsubishi iMiEV (built in Japan) and others that are coming soon, because they all qualify for some part of or all of the same $7,500 tax incentive. But you knew that already, right? And Cash for Clunkers? Really? The biggest beneficiary of Cash for Clunkers was Toyota.

 

[expat_panama]

...Your math is laughably faulty...

--and your math doesn't exist.

You can't say how much money we did or did not give you until you've actually divided your estimate of taxes given to GM by the your estimate of Volt sales. For now you're like a six-year-old telling her parents that ice cream is better than what happens on a honeymoon. Go ahead and actually figure out how much of our money you think you had to spend in order to save on your gasoline charges.




We want it back.

 

[martinjlm]

...Your math is laughably faulty...

--and your math doesn't exist.

You can't say how much money we did or did not give you until you've actually divided your estimate of taxes given to GM by the your estimate of Volt sales. For now you're like a six-year-old telling her parents that ice cream is better than what happens on a honeymoon. Go ahead and actually figure out how much of our money you think you had to spend in order to save on your gasoline charges.




We want it back.

You apparently assume that all the money that the US government has invested in GM is specifically for Volt. It CLEARLY is not. Your math is apparently built on that premise. That makes it laughable.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yep, that all adds up to one big fail.

more importantly, do you want Barry free to save all or some of the businesses that go bankrupt each year.

Maybe only the important businesses, because Barry knows whats important?

 

[Slapshot28]

It&#8217;s been a while since posting here at US Message Board. I see that things have not changed much! &#61514;

So, I own a Volt. I bought it in January 2011, trading in a beloved BMW 540i Sport. The Volt absolutely is the best car that I've ever owned. I'll never buy a conventional gas-guzzler again. To those who think that it&#8217;s like Cruz, forget it. The Cruz is just as intended, an inexpensive compact. The Volt is much more like a mid-range BMW in just every way. Oh, and for those who think the Volt does not have much range, come on, do a little homework. It&#8217;s an EREV = Extended Range Electric Vehicle. I frequently drive my Volt from Philly to NH or to NC, without thinking twice. It gets about 40 mpg on long trips. While commuting during the week, it burns not a single drop of gasoline.

You should try driving one. It&#8217;s quick, agile, comfortable, loaded with creature-comforts, and has a mean, low, prowling look. I love it, as do all Volt owners. It has the highest customer satisfaction ratings of almost any car sold today.

By the way, none of your money went to buy my Volt. My wife and I did not qualify for either the federal $7,500 credit, or the PA $3,500 credit. And on that topic, you should know that every major country has tax incentives for purchasing electric vehicles Wikipedia: Government Incentives for Plug-in Electric Vehicles (Government incentives for plug-in electric vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Thank goodness the US is participating in the EV revolution, and in some ways leading it.

On the topic of my money and your money, my tax dollars go to all kinds of things, like your house payments, your kids&#8217; education, your gasoline, your health care, and maybe your unemployment. I don&#8217;t really mind any of that. My money also has gone to fight incredibly expensive wars in far-off lands for not-such-great reasons and with not-such-great outcomes. I&#8217;m not bitter about any of this, and I don&#8217;t complain about it. At the same time, I am very glad that some of my dollars are helping raise education standards in our country, and paying for important research, even though some of the outcomes may not be that great. And lastly, I&#8217;m really happy that some of my dollars are directed toward renewable low-carbon energy, because I really hate the fact that we are burning fossil fuels at an astonishing rate and that this valuable resource is getting more and more difficult to find and replace. While I certainly don&#8217;t like the national debt burden we have created over the last 10 years, our ever-growing energy crisis is quickly becoming the real future tragedy for our children and grand-children.

Go test drive a Volt. If you don&#8217;t like it, fine. If it doesn&#8217;t fit your lifestyle, that&#8217;s fine as well.

But quit your sniveling. It&#8217;s disgusting.

 

[daveman]

Yep, that all adds up to one big fail.

more importantly, do you want Barry free to save all or some of the businesses that go bankrupt each year.

Maybe only the important businesses, because Barry knows whats important?

I'm sure it's just coincidence that all the businesses Obama has decided are important just happen to be owned by big Democrat Party contributors.

Coincidence. Yeah. HAS to be.

 

[daveman]

It’s been a while since posting here at US Message Board. I see that things have not changed much! &#61514;

So, I own a Volt. I bought it in January 2011, trading in a beloved BMW 540i Sport. The Volt absolutely is the best car that I've ever owned. I'll never buy a conventional gas-guzzler again. To those who think that it’s like Cruz, forget it. The Cruz is just as intended, an inexpensive compact. The Volt is much more like a mid-range BMW in just every way. Oh, and for those who think the Volt does not have much range, come on, do a little homework. It’s an EREV = Extended Range Electric Vehicle. I frequently drive my Volt from Philly to NH or to NC, without thinking twice. It gets about 40 mpg on long trips. While commuting during the week, it burns not a single drop of gasoline.

You should try driving one. It’s quick, agile, comfortable, loaded with creature-comforts, and has a mean, low, prowling look. I love it, as do all Volt owners. It has the highest customer satisfaction ratings of almost any car sold today.

By the way, none of your money went to buy my Volt. My wife and I did not qualify for either the federal $7,500 credit, or the PA $3,500 credit. And on that topic, you should know that every major country has tax incentives for purchasing electric vehicles Wikipedia: Government Incentives for Plug-in Electric Vehicles (Government incentives for plug-in electric vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Thank goodness the US is participating in the EV revolution, and in some ways leading it.

On the topic of my money and your money, my tax dollars go to all kinds of things, like your house payments, your kids’ education, your gasoline, your health care, and maybe your unemployment. I don’t really mind any of that. My money also has gone to fight incredibly expensive wars in far-off lands for not-such-great reasons and with not-such-great outcomes. I’m not bitter about any of this, and I don’t complain about it. At the same time, I am very glad that some of my dollars are helping raise education standards in our country, and paying for important research, even though some of the outcomes may not be that great. And lastly, I’m really happy that some of my dollars are directed toward renewable low-carbon energy, because I really hate the fact that we are burning fossil fuels at an astonishing rate and that this valuable resource is getting more and more difficult to find and replace. While I certainly don’t like the national debt burden we have created over the last 10 years, our ever-growing energy crisis is quickly becoming the real future tragedy for our children and grand-children.

Go test drive a Volt. If you don’t like it, fine. If it doesn’t fit your lifestyle, that’s fine as well.

But quit your sniveling. It’s disgusting.

Who's sniveling?

Oh, yeah -- nobody.

 

[Nova78]

Not to put too fine a point on it, for the umpteenth time concerning the Volt, GM is playing fast and lose with the facts.



GM is giving away rent-a-Volts. While the claim of 2800+ sales in August is certainly enough to still the Volt’s critics, at least until Election Day (which is all that really matters to the current management), that number is an automotive Potemkin Village, concealing enough rot to make any czar, car or otherwise, proud.

With additional subsidies from GM (that would be you and me), Chevrolet dealers in August were offering two-year Volt leases for as little as $250 down and $199/month. Fully 2/3s of the “sales” were leases, leaving around 925 cars that were truly sold. Prior to the giveaway leases, GM says that 40% of 2012 sales were also leases. The number remains the same—an average of about 925 cars really sold each month for this year.

Automotive News recently reported that the feds have purchased 182 Volts so far in 2012. Now we’re down to 900 real sales per month.. Corporate (fleet) sales are conservatively estimated at 5% of the total, putting the consumer number closer to 850.

Don’t forget that the Department of Defense has committed to buying 1,500 of these wallet-hogs. These aren’t combat vehicles and will no doubt largely wind up in some Colonel’s driveway.

There are enough scams here to satisfy a Chicago politician. The giveaway lease cars are initially bought by dealerships at cost, which Bob Lutz says is $37,000. Then they pocket an additional $7,500—the Volt subsidy that Obama proposes raising to $10,000—paid by you and me.

Two years later they get the car back. Given the ridiculous lease terms, there’s probably a pretty low limit on the free mileage, say, around 20,000. Now there’s a low-mileage used Volt out there that they can probably sell for $34,000 (a price lower than the average new one minus the subsidy) So each dealer makes a hefty $5,000 in lease fees, $7,500 in our money, and an unknown (lowball: $3,000) “incentive” from GM for the giveaway lease that’s matched by the lower price for the resale car. That’s $12,500 per car. Not a bad margin, and with good PR to boot.

Because the leased vehicles are counted as “sales”, that’s pretty much like stating that every vehicle in a dealer’s inventory—which they have paid for—is “sold”, or that people who rent property actually own it.

The military sales are particularly galling. If they want a small car that doesn’t use much gas, they could buy two Cheverolet Cruzes (same frame as the Volt, seats one more) per Volt. In a remarkable slap at fiscal conservatives, Andrews Air Force Base just purchased 18, probably to be parked somewhere near Air Force-1.

The good news is that there is no chance that the military can ever claim that there’s no fat in their budget when they are about to plunk down—estimate—about six million dollars for cars that no one else really wants.

Here’s the sorry bottom line. Volt sales to individuals are really running around 10,000 per year. Given a smaller number of leases and fleet sales last year, this is pretty much what GM should have gotten if there weren’t supply problems in the first half of 2011.

The fact is that no one wants this car and the government is goosing sales by giving them away as short-term leases and purchasing them for officers to tool around in. Meanwhile, the dealers make a killing—largely on the taxpayer’s dime.

 

[expat_panama]

...You apparently assume that...

You're seeing assumptions that don't exist. Let's focus on what is and forget what we only imagine. What does exist is our shared understanding that my tax dollars went to pay for the Volt. It's also a fact that I want my money back.

 

[martinjlm]

...You apparently assume that...

You're seeing assumptions that don't exist. Let's focus on what is and forget what we only imagine. What does exist is our shared understanding that my tax dollars went to pay for the Volt. It's also a fact that I want my money back.

Your tax dollars also go to pay for Nissan Leafs (built in Japan), Toyota Prius and Prius Plug-ins (built in Japan), and pretty much anything with a large enough hybrid or EV battery. And if you live in California, Colorado, or a few select other states, they pretty much double the federal incentive. Oh, where is the outrage??!!

By the way....all of those subsidies started during the Bush Administration.....hmmmmm

 

[martinjlm]

Nova78,

Rather than quote your whole post and try to respond to it line by line, I'll only say this......

1) Check the leasing percentages of luxury and performance cars. If there was no leasing, BMW and Mercedes would not have a business in the US

2) The key principle to leasing is a little thing called "residual"...the Percentage of the original purchase price that a vehicle is expected to be worth at the end of its lease.....the higher the residual, the lower the lease payment. That's why luxury cars are mostly leased.....they tend to have very high residuals. As it turns out, after a number of enthusiastic reviews and too many awards to fit in the trophy cabinet, AIG and other financial organizations that control residual rates raised the residual expectation for Volts, bringing the leasing rates way down. Now, in fairness, I'm certain that GM is subsidizing that to some degree, too.

3) The dealer doesn't own a vehicle that is leased (at least that's the case on the vehicles I've leased). When the lease is executed, the financial party (bank, credit union, etc) buys the car from the dealer at pre-determined pricing. The financial institution converts any subsidy to an appropriate discount. This is not money in the dealer's pocket. Nor does it go into the pocket of the person leasing the car. It is amortized across the lease payments.

4) You really believe that 2,800 people a month are going out to lease a car they don't want because (your words) "the government is goosing sales by giving them away"....? Really? The government is in the business of giving cars away now? Wow.....where's the logic?

 

[martinjlm]

Just for anyone interested, I spent a few days covering press releases at the Paris Auto Show (I know, tough job.....but somebody's gotta do it). A couple of interesting take always....

Audi (Volkswagen) cancelled a couple of electric cars that they have been working on. And they announced that they will be introducing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles on every model across they're lineup by 2020.

Porsche (another VW subsidiary) showed a concept car, the Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo. It is a plug-in hybrid capable of driving 18 miles on electric power, the the rest of the time like any other hybrid(only faster.....much, much faster)

BMW showed their Active Tourer Concept. This car is a....you guessed it....plug-in hybrid. Has a 1.5L 3-cylinder turbo engine in addition to its electric motor and battery pack. It can drive 18 miles on electric (where have I seen that number before?) then it drives like any other hybrid vehicle.

Volvo announced that the V60 Plug-In Hybrid (startin' to see a trend here) has already sold out its first 1,000 units. That's at the equivalent price of $81,000 US. Whoa! That's at least a thousand people in Europe as nutty as us Volt drivers. No, wait....TWICE as nutty because that car costs twice what a Volt costs.

Mercedes-Benz decided to walk away from the Plug-in Hybrid / EREV game. They decided they're better off announcing start of sale of the SLS AMG Electric Drive. The fastest Mercedes ever built. And probably one of the most expensive.....over $400K. Think I'll pass on that one. But they also announced the B-Class E-Cell (what a name) which is about the size of a Ford Focus, is all electric, and will cost a little bit more than a Volt. What were they thinking?

Let's see....who else announced Plug-in Hybrids? Oh yeah....pretty much everybody. Ford showed their C-Max Energi (Energi is Ford-speak for plug-in hybrid) which is already for sale here in the States, soon to be followed by their Fusion Energi, both joining their Focus EV.

Pretty soon there will be so many Plug-in Hybrid models for sale people will forget who thought of it first. We Volt drivers will know the answer to that.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Pretty soon there will be so many Plug-in Hybrid models for sale people will forget who thought of it first. We Volt drivers will know the answer to that.

electric cars are as old as cars so GM won't get much credit.

All the manufacturers are trying to move down the learning curve ASAP with slightly different approaches. Whoever gets there fastest (which means cheaper than regular cars) will get the credit and the money but only if they get there significantly ahead of the competition.

 

[Freemason9]

Does anyone here understand that initial product investment and production invariably results in a net per-unit loss up front? And that profits only come after a certain number of units are sold (i.e., per unit cost x volume = research & development costs, AKA break even point).

I swear, this is a nation of retards.

 

[midcan5]

Why does the right wing hate the American worker and their cars? We own American made GM cars and they are excellent machines, but as I drive I notice lots of cheap foreign cars. Cheap because foreign companies collaborate with each other and government. Americans fuck each other and think that is a wonderful sentiment. What a bunch of assholes, then they wonder why jobs are scare. Braindead doesn't even fit the assholes of the right wing conservative in America.

Buy American = "Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM, or Chrysler supports almost three times as many jobs as buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports 3.5 times more jobs than buying a Hyundai. Comparing a Honda and a Hyundai? Buying a Honda supports more than 2 times more jobs." The Level Field Institute

"In corporate culture, keiretsu refers to a uniquely Japanese form of corporate organization. A keiretsu is a grouping or family of affiliated companies that form a tight-knit alliance to work toward each other's mutual success. The keiretsu system is also based on an intimate partnership between government and businesses. It can best be understood as the intricate web of relationships that links banks, manufacturers, suppliers, and distributors with the Japanese government.¶ These ironclad corporate alliances have caused much debate and have been called "government-sponsored cartels." While some think keiretsu are a menace to trade, others see them as a model for change. Features common to most keiretsu include "main bank," stable shareholding, and seconded directors. Some keiretsu concepts have no American parallel such as "general trading company." The keiretsu system is one of the profound differences between Japanese and US business structures." What is keiretsu? - Definition from WhatIs.com


Bumper stickers

Buy American - support all Americans, including yourself.
Our children, our grandchildren, ourselves require we support each other, buy American.
Quality! our Buick is number one.
Buy American and Thumbs up!
Sorry, I'm not Japanese, I buy American.
Our children, our grandchildren, ourselves require we support each other, buy American.
Didn't know you were Korean!
When the Japanese support my wife, kids, and I, I'll support them, until then I'll buy American.


MadeInUSA - Home- Recycling American Dollars Through Patriotic Spending
How Americans Can Buy American
American Made Products Directory - Made in USA, United States Manufacturers
THE AMERICAN LIST | A Continuous Lean.
Shirts Made in USA: All American Clothing Co
Clothing Made in the USA - American and Unionmade Clothing by All USA Clothing
Travel bags, laptop bags, and backbacks. The best materials and innovative construction since 1972 - TomBihn.com
Men
Knives - Pocket Knives, Handcrafted Knives, USA Made Knives - W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Company

 

[martinjlm]

Pretty soon there will be so many Plug-in Hybrid models for sale people will forget who thought of it first. We Volt drivers will know the answer to that.

electric cars are as old as cars so GM won't get much credit.

All the manufacturers are trying to move down the learning curve ASAP with slightly different approaches. Whoever gets there fastest (which means cheaper than regular cars) will get the credit and the money but only if they get there significantly ahead of the competition.

The part in bold is exactly my point. Some folks are so focused on espousing what they've heard far-right critics say about a friggin' car that they fail to realize that most of the car industry is currently heading down the same path. Soon most, if not all, new cars sold will have SOME degree of electrification. This will be needed in order to meet fuel economy and emissions requirements in Europe, China, Korea, Japan, and the US. Even with what the EPA has on the books for 2025, US will still have the most lenient fuel economy and emissions requirements of the large developed markets.

My personal OPINION is that pure battery electric vehicles will continue to be more of a niche play. Most folks will find it hard to get past the range issue, no matter how good batteries get. Tesla S (300 mile range) is a great start, but it's also $90K to get that kinda range. Plug-in Hybrids (PHEV) and EREVs will become mainstream. Non-plug in hybrids will be the lower cost play.

Internal Combustion Engines (ICE) running on gas, diesel, ethanol, and maybe CNG will continue to advance in technology and will be the cornerstone from which hybrid, PHEV, and EREV applications are built. The one wildcard that could turn all this on its head would be the dramatic decrease in cost of fuel cell technology, should that ever occur.