Insight: GM's Volt: The ugly math of low sales, high costs

[martinjlm]

.....
do you have any idea what your point is???? Do you want liberal bureaucrats to pick all new products???? Are you communist? Do you know what you are?

By the way.....weren't you s'posed to say "Get off my lawn!!!" somewhere in there?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

.....
do you have any idea what your point is???? Do you want liberal bureaucrats to pick all new products???? Are you communist? Do you know what you are?

By the way.....weren't you s'posed to say "Get off my lawn!!!" somewhere in there?

do you have any idea what your point is???? Do you want liberal bureaucrats to pick all new products???? Are you communist? Do you know what you are?

 

[daveman]

A few facts: (clipped article, not my words)

2013 Chevy Volt
The hybrid-electric Chevy Volt has better sales numbers than approximately half of all vehicles sold in the U.S. Domestic car dealers carry approximately 260 different car and truck models for retail sale. Of that number, the Volt ranks almost exactly in the middle, despite recent political debate about the car’s profitability. An unreliable Associated Press story, which said that GM was losing money on each Volt sold, has been widely debunked. The AP, it was discovered, used improper accounting methods among other glaring inaccuracies.. <see post #46>

Sometimes overlooked in media reviews of the car, the high-tech, crash warning system is quite effective. The clip covers how the program operates, whether the threat of collision comes from the rear or front of the vehicle. Once the stuff of science fiction novels that featured a fellow named Mr. Bond, the safety component is now available on many newer vehicles. Watching how all the science comes together to make it work is fascinating.

Chevy Volt: Update
Despite the incorrect, though widely publicized AP story, the Chevy Volt continues to sell briskly, with many dealers having to put prospective buyers on a waiting list for the popular hybrid. Last month, in fact, the Volt had its best sales period since its debut.
By the end of August, Chevrolet had racked up 13,497 unit sales for the Volt, which turns out to be better than about half of all models. Of 262 vehicle models officially listed as “for sale,” in the U.S., Volt ranked 133.

do you have any idea what your point is???? Do you want liberal bureaucrats to pick all new products???? Are you communist? Do you know what you are?

My point is that cars and politics are like biscuits and boots. Both exist but they have very little to do with each other EXCEPT in an election year when one side has nothing to talk about. You can decide for yourself which side that may be.

And when politicians stick their noses in the PRODUCT side of the industry, they tend to come off sounding and acting like complete idiots to those of us who live and breathe the industry every day. There are reasons for politics to play out on the BUSINESS and FINANCE side of the industry, but to waste people's time by politicizing one particular car (which by the way, they major players in the industry are stumbling all over themselves trying to copy) is totally ludicrous and serves no one.

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car

U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.​

President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

My point is that cars and politics are like biscuits and boots. Both exist but they have very little to do with each other EXCEPT in an election year

of course thats not true. Barry voted to the left of the only communist in the Senate, Bernie Sanders, and funded Solyndra and many others, not in an election year.

 

[Papageorgio]

do you have any idea what your point is???? Do you want liberal bureaucrats to pick all new products???? Are you communist? Do you know what you are?

My point is that cars and politics are like biscuits and boots. Both exist but they have very little to do with each other EXCEPT in an election year when one side has nothing to talk about. You can decide for yourself which side that may be.

And when politicians stick their noses in the PRODUCT side of the industry, they tend to come off sounding and acting like complete idiots to those of us who live and breathe the industry every day. There are reasons for politics to play out on the BUSINESS and FINANCE side of the industry, but to waste people's time by politicizing one particular car (which by the way, they major players in the industry are stumbling all over themselves trying to copy) is totally ludicrous and serves no one.

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car

U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.​

President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

Misread the market, I think it is more like there is no market.

 

[daveman]

My point is that cars and politics are like biscuits and boots. Both exist but they have very little to do with each other EXCEPT in an election year when one side has nothing to talk about. You can decide for yourself which side that may be.

And when politicians stick their noses in the PRODUCT side of the industry, they tend to come off sounding and acting like complete idiots to those of us who live and breathe the industry every day. There are reasons for politics to play out on the BUSINESS and FINANCE side of the industry, but to waste people's time by politicizing one particular car (which by the way, they major players in the industry are stumbling all over themselves trying to copy) is totally ludicrous and serves no one.

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car

U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.​

President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

Misread the market, I think it is more like there is no market.

Except the artificial one caused by government purchases.

 

[Sallow]

They just want gm out of business.

No they just want capitalism which is mostly anti-business since it causes about 30,000 business bankruptcies a year.

Do you as a fool liberal want Barry to bailout all 30,000 failing companies every year or do you want to allow the creative destruction of capitalism?

You've miffed a couple of things here ace.

-GM provides the government with a great deal of vehicles, both military and civilian.

-Losing GM, which makes auto parts for the rest of the industry..would have meant losing a huge part of the American economy.

-It's not nor has it ever been unusual for the American government to bail out industries key to the overall health of the American economy.

 

[Sallow]

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car

U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.​

President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

Misread the market, I think it is more like there is no market.

Except the artificial one caused by government purchases.

You didn't have a problem with that before...

 

[daveman]

Misread the market, I think it is more like there is no market.

Except the artificial one caused by government purchases.

You didn't have a problem with that before...

I have no problem with the government buying things, except when the things they're buying are crap in order to pay back Democrat special interest groups.

The purpose of the US Treasury is not to repay Obama's donors.

 

[kiwiman127]

It's really sad when Americans cheer for the failure of one of it's own companies and all because of the complete control their ideology has over them. And these same people claim to love their country. Liars.

On another note: Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

So there is market for hybrids. GM just has to figure out how to capture their segment of the market and how to convince the domestic haters of America to buy their cars.

 

[kiwiman127]

Except the artificial one caused by government purchases.

You didn't have a problem with that before...

I have no problem with the government buying things, except when the things they're buying are crap in order to pay back Democrat special interest groups.

The purpose of the US Treasury is not to repay Obama's donors.

So Daveman, is Obama the first ever president to ever contrive a way to pay back those who have donated money to their campaigns? No. But let's just pin that one on Obama, OK?
Now if Big Money was out of politics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!

 

[Rshermr]

Except the artificial one caused by government purchases.

You didn't have a problem with that before...

I have no problem with the government buying things, except when the things they're buying are crap in order to pay back Democrat special interest groups.

The purpose of the US Treasury is not to repay Obama's donors.

And as usual, no proof of anything at all. Just con dogma. What a surprise.

 

[expat_panama]

It's really sad when Americans cheer for the failure of one of it's own companies...

We should cheer the death of one our own companies because ease of entry and exit make free markets possible. The state has expropriated a dying company and has squandered $50B of my money and all that's been accomplished is a distorted market and less of my money in my pocket.

...people claim to love their country. Liars...

Seems that way, but imho the morons that stole my money and wasted it on a dead company are more stupid than deceitful.

...Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models[/I] Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com So there is market for hybrids...

Markets don't magically come into existence just because some pundit is paid to say so. Markets exist when people show up and buy what others sell. Any market that exists for hybrids is negligible compared to that for other passenger vehicles.

...GM just has to figure out how to capture their segment of the market...

The state may now own GM, but the state will never own even a 'segment' of the market.

...how to convince the domestic haters of America to buy their cars.

That's easy, just shoot anyone who doesn't buy one. In a free market the sellers usually first understand that customers are not to be called any names other than their true title: "the boss", and that the goal is to figure out what customers want and then get if for them.

The bottom line is that all this stuff comes naturally to most people, but apparently followers of Marx have a great deal of trouble finding their way.

 

[Papageorgio]

It's really sad when Americans cheer for the failure of one of it's own companies and all because of the complete control their ideology has over them. And these same people claim to love their country. Liars.

On another note: Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models Toyota hybrids: Carmaker to expand range of models | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

So there is market for hybrids. GM just has to figure out how to capture their segment of the market and how to convince the domestic haters of America to buy their cars.

Hybrids, not total electric, I still trying to find people that are cheering the failure of an American company, I know many liberals want Chik-a-fil to go out of business, was that un-American?

How many GM products have you purchased in the last 3 years? How many VOLTS do you own? How many GM hybrids do you own?

 

[martinjlm]

.......U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.[/INDENT]
President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

So glad this came up. Let's do a little math......

The U.S. light duty vehicle market (cars and personal trucks and SUVs, but not trucks with GVW over 8,600 lbs) typically ranges from 12 million a year in a very bad year to as much as 16 million in a very good year. Now, President Obama made that statement sometime in 2009 or 2010. I'll err on the conservative side and start my counting in 2011, that way we know it begins after he said it. Keep in mind that he said 1 million sold BY 2015, not IN 2015.

In 2011 there were 13 million vehicles sold. 2012 looks like it's gonna come in around 14.5 million. For giggles and grins, we'll assume things aren't gonna get any better (economists are predicting continued growth in auto sales, but we'll ignore that for now). Let's say that 2013, 2014, and 2015 all come in at 14.0 million. Lower than 2012. We also won't consider the fact that millions of vehicles sold before 2011 are and will still be on the road. That means since President Obama set the goal for 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, the US market would have added 59.5 million more vehicles to the US car parq (yes, parq is a word...google it). So the President is setting a goal that 1 out of 60 new cars added to the roads be electrically powered. Yeah, I guess i can see how that can be interpretted as holding a gun to your head and making you buy an electric vehicle. <-----Folks, that right thar is sarcasm, case ya didn't notice.. That's about 1.6% of new car sales.

And as far as whether or not President Obama would make a good automotive analyst or not....I don't know (or care) but what I DO know is that I AM an automotive analyst and I must be doing fairly well at it, based on what they're paying me.

For what it's worth I'm in Paris right now covering the Mondial de Automobile (Paris Auto Show). The hottest car in the place right now is a shocking blue Mercedes S Class AMG. Folks, it's electric. 100%. And Mercedes announced that it officially goes on sale today. And they showed a smaller less expensive all electric vehicle that goes on sale in mid 2013. And President Obama had nothing to do with these. Mercedes decided that they needed to build these vehicles and they're doing it. Factor in the fact that an all new vehicle program takes at least three and usually closer to five years to come to market and it becomes apparent that Mercedes was working on one or both of these cars before President Obama took office. Hmmmmmm.


I'll post pictures when I get back stateside.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Now if Big Money was out of politics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!

Liberals have given crony capitalist politicians so much power that there are 40,000 lobbyists in DC. In a Republican world there would be little power, little money, and few lobbyists in DC.

The Democrat philosophy makes them naturally corrupt. Too bad they lack the IQ to realize it.

 

[Rshermr]

Ford would have loved to see GM close their doors,just like Nash,American motors,packard,cord,and countless others have.The world din't end,and the demand was absorbed by other manufactures.

If DC wanted to bail out people they should have gone to main street.

Chickenwing says:

Ford would have loved to see GM close their doors,just like Nash,American motors,packard,cord,and countless others have.

"

I don't think so:
"Mulally's comments weren't offered as a criticism of Romney. Rather, he was defending Ford's decision to go to Congress with GM and Chrysler in 2008 to call for a federal rescue."
Ford's CEO has no regrets about call for bailout - Los Angeles Times

That would be the chairman of ford making your statement look rather lame.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ford would have loved to see GM close their doors,just like Nash,American motors,packard,cord,and countless others have.The world din't end,and the demand was absorbed by other manufactures.

If DC wanted to bail out people they should have gone to main street.

Chickenwing says:

Ford would have loved to see GM close their doors,just like Nash,American motors,packard,cord,and countless others have.

"

I don't think so:
"Mulally's comments weren't offered as a criticism of Romney. Rather, he was defending Ford's decision to go to Congress with GM and Chrysler in 2008 to call for a federal rescue."
Ford's CEO has no regrets about call for bailout - Los Angeles Times

That would be the chairman of ford making your statement look rather lame.

lame?? You mean Ford shareholders actually like competition that limits their income???? Do most companies want to see their competition thrive or go bankrupt?

Why do you try to think at all??

 

[Papageorgio]

.......U.S. President Barack Obama has set a goal of getting one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, a target many analysts say will be impossible to achieve.[/INDENT]
President Obama probably shouldn't get a job as an auto industry analyst next year.

So glad this came up. Let's do a little math......

The U.S. light duty vehicle market (cars and personal trucks and SUVs, but not trucks with GVW over 8,600 lbs) typically ranges from 12 million a year in a very bad year to as much as 16 million in a very good year. Now, President Obama made that statement sometime in 2009 or 2010. I'll err on the conservative side and start my counting in 2011, that way we know it begins after he said it. Keep in mind that he said 1 million sold BY 2015, not IN 2015.

In 2011 there were 13 million vehicles sold. 2012 looks like it's gonna come in around 14.5 million. For giggles and grins, we'll assume things aren't gonna get any better (economists are predicting continued growth in auto sales, but we'll ignore that for now). Let's say that 2013, 2014, and 2015 all come in at 14.0 million. Lower than 2012. We also won't consider the fact that millions of vehicles sold before 2011 are and will still be on the road. That means since President Obama set the goal for 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, the US market would have added 59.5 million more vehicles to the US car parq (yes, parq is a word...google it). So the President is setting a goal that 1 out of 60 new cars added to the roads be electrically powered. Yeah, I guess i can see how that can be interpretted as holding a gun to your head and making you buy an electric vehicle. <-----Folks, that right thar is sarcasm, case ya didn't notice.. That's about 1.6% of new car sales.

And as far as whether or not President Obama would make a good automotive analyst or not....I don't know (or care) but what I DO know is that I AM an automotive analyst and I must be doing fairly well at it, based on what they're paying me.

For what it's worth I'm in Paris right now covering the Mondial de Automobile (Paris Auto Show). The hottest car in the place right now is a shocking blue Mercedes S Class AMG. Folks, it's electric. 100%. And Mercedes announced that it officially goes on sale today. And they showed a smaller less expensive all electric vehicle that goes on sale in mid 2013. And President Obama had nothing to do with these. Mercedes decided that they needed to build these vehicles and they're doing it. Factor in the fact that an all new vehicle program takes at least three and usually closer to five years to come to market and it becomes apparent that Mercedes was working on one or both of these cars before President Obama took office. Hmmmmmm.


I'll post pictures when I get back stateside.

How is your electric car doing?

 

[martinjlm]

......

How is your electric car doing?

Wonderfully! Thanks for asking. Over 7,000 miles in almost 7 months and only used 3.7 gallons of dead dinosaur juice. Has not seen a gas pump since we took possession in March. We have 5.6 more gallons of dealer supplied gas left in the tank. That ought to get us to January, maybe February. Then the program that burns all gas not used in 12 months will kick in and we'll finally have to fill up.