Individual income tax payments up $233 billion over the last two years- 26%

[Trajan]

so, if the CBO is correct, the issue it NOT revenue, its SPENDING...most of us knew that but its always nice to see it spelled out.

In effect they want to spin the evil rich as misers unwilling to pay more, to cover for adding what amounts to another stimulus to every years' outlays....of course we don't have a formal budget as they have not created one for over 4 years, rolling along on Continuing Resolutions which has been the plan all along as they enshrine this spending level,as we don't get an accounting until now, the end of the federal fiscal year reflecting just what we have borrowed/spent for the year.



November 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. ET

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes." Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

snip-

This healthy revenue increase comes despite measly economic growth of between 1% and 2%. Imagine the gusher of revenue the feds could get if government got out of the way and let the economy grow faster.

Now let's look at outlays, which declined a bit in 2012. That small miracle was achieved thanks to a 4% fall in defense spending, a 24% fall in jobless benefits, and an 8.9% decline in Medicaid spending.

Note, however, that federal spending remains at a new plateau of about $3.54 trillion, or some $800 billion more than the last pre-recession year of 2007. One way to think about this is that most of the $830 billion stimulus of 2009 has now become part of the federal budget baseline. The "emergency" spending of the stimulus has now become permanent, as we predicted it would.

more at
Review & Outlook: The Hard Fiscal Facts - WSJ.com

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are liars, damn liars and statistics.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

so, if the CBO is correct, the issue it NOT revenue, its SPENDING...most of us knew that but its always nice to see it spelled out.

In effect they want to spin the evil rich as misers unwilling to pay more, to cover for adding what amounts to another stimulus to every years' outlays....of course we don't have a formal budget as they have not created one for over 4 years, rolling along on Continuing Resolutions which has been the plan all along as they enshrine this spending level,as we don't get an accounting until now, the end of the federal fiscal year reflecting just what we have borrowed/spent for the year.



November 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. ET

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes." Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

snip-

This healthy revenue increase comes despite measly economic growth of between 1% and 2%. Imagine the gusher of revenue the feds could get if government got out of the way and let the economy grow faster.

Government isn't "in the way".

 

[Trajan]

There are liars, damn liars and statistics.

are you questioning the veracity of that data?


this isn't an 'opinion' call, the revenue is the revenue...the outlays are the outlays.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Individual income tax payments up $233 billion over the last two years- 26%

And the deficit is down 204 billion.

 

[oldfart]

There are liars, damn liars and statistics.

are you questioning the veracity of that data?


this isn't an 'opinion' call, the revenue is the revenue...the outlays are the outlays.

I don't think anyone questions the veracity of the data; it's your conclusions drawn from it which are at issue. Your logic has an unspolen premise that because revenue has increased a given amount, there can be no argument that it should not be increased furher. This is obviously a false syllogism. If omeone had a fever of 106 degress and it was reduced to 104 does not mean the patient is healthy and no further treatment is necessary.

So when you are ready to discuss budget targets for revenue and spending in a realistic way, we have somethin to talk about.

 

[AmyNation]

Does this mean we can have a serious discussion about cuts now?

 

[Rshermr]

Does this mean we can have a serious discussion about cuts now?

No, it means that oldfart just said something really rational, and the cons have now left the room.

 

[expat_panama]

so, if the CBO is correct...

more at
Review & Outlook: The Hard Fiscal Facts - WSJ.com

That's not from the CBO, it's from the WSJ, and what they call "Hard Fiscal Facts" is nothing more than the latest whitehouse estimate of $2,468B for 2012.

The actual whitehouse.gov spreadsheet says:

Last July the whitehouse.gov estimate was $2,627B and now that the election's over the estimate's been slashed by $159 billion. FY2012 ended Oct.1 but they evidently don't have the final number yet. When it does come out my bet is that the 'actual' will probably be slashed even lower.

 

[Wiseacre]

Right or wrong, in 2009 we spend $862 billion on the stimulus bill, but in subsequent years we kept on spending that amount. To minimal positive effect, I might add.

You know why receipts are up last year and this year? Cuz the rich guys are already in the process of selling out in anticipation of the fiscal cliff in 2013. 2013 earnings are showing up in 2012 for tax reasons; there are already other tax increases coming from the expiration of the Social Security tax to the new taxes in the ACA. If Obama also gets his tax hike on the rich on top of that, don't be surprised if we see another recession next year.

 

[Article 15]

Unemployment has been shrinking the last two years too. It's almost like these things are connected in some way...

 

[Wiseacre]

Unemployment has been shrinking the last two years too. It's almost like these things are connected in some way...

People retired or stopped looking for work. And more people got on some kind of disability, or some other gov't program. You look at the number of employed persons, it ain't much higher than it was 2 years ago. And a lot of that is part timers, which is likely to be the wave of the future as more companies will hire part timers to avoid paying ACA penalties.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There are liars, damn liars and statistics.

are you questioning the veracity of that data?


this isn't an 'opinion' call, the revenue is the revenue...the outlays are the outlays.

Just sayin...oohpoopydoo is basically on the same level as Truthmatters...conversing with him is an exercise in futility.

 

[Skull Pilot]

so, if the CBO is correct, the issue it NOT revenue, its SPENDING...most of us knew that but its always nice to see it spelled out.

In effect they want to spin the evil rich as misers unwilling to pay more, to cover for adding what amounts to another stimulus to every years' outlays....of course we don't have a formal budget as they have not created one for over 4 years, rolling along on Continuing Resolutions which has been the plan all along as they enshrine this spending level,as we don't get an accounting until now, the end of the federal fiscal year reflecting just what we have borrowed/spent for the year.



November 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. ET

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes." Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

snip-

This healthy revenue increase comes despite measly economic growth of between 1% and 2%. Imagine the gusher of revenue the feds could get if government got out of the way and let the economy grow faster.

Government isn't "in the way".

You haven't had to fill out pages of useless regulatory bullshit have you?

 

[Politico]

You look at the number of employed persons, it ain't much higher than it was 2 years ago.

And yet milllions more who entered the workforce are not accounted for.

 

[william the wie]

You look at the number of employed persons, it ain't much higher than it was 2 years ago.

And yet milllions more who entered the workforce are not accounted for.

Also the cost containment advisory board has not yet really kicked in. Non-cardiologists, Kenneth Cooper of aerobics fame is probably the vest known, have been denouncing bypass surgery and angioplasty as modern day beads and rattles since the 1970s. The advisory board confirmed this for all but ER angioplasties a while back. When they advise insurance companies not to reimburse for bypass a lot of medical revenue will go bye-bye. Given the number people employed on the beads and rattles side of medicine the stimulus bill has not lost its sting.

 

[del]

so, if the CBO is correct, the issue it NOT revenue, its SPENDING...most of us knew that but its always nice to see it spelled out.

In effect they want to spin the evil rich as misers unwilling to pay more, to cover for adding what amounts to another stimulus to every years' outlays....of course we don't have a formal budget as they have not created one for over 4 years, rolling along on Continuing Resolutions which has been the plan all along as they enshrine this spending level,as we don't get an accounting until now, the end of the federal fiscal year reflecting just what we have borrowed/spent for the year.



November 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. ET

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes." Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

snip-

This healthy revenue increase comes despite measly economic growth of between 1% and 2%. Imagine the gusher of revenue the feds could get if government got out of the way and let the economy grow faster.

Now let's look at outlays, which declined a bit in 2012. That small miracle was achieved thanks to a 4% fall in defense spending, a 24% fall in jobless benefits, and an 8.9% decline in Medicaid spending.

Note, however, that federal spending remains at a new plateau of about $3.54 trillion, or some $800 billion more than the last pre-recession year of 2007. One way to think about this is that most of the $830 billion stimulus of 2009 has now become part of the federal budget baseline. The "emergency" spending of the stimulus has now become permanent, as we predicted it would.

more at
Review & Outlook: The Hard Fiscal Facts - WSJ.com

excellent false dichotomy

 

[Trajan]

There are liars, damn liars and statistics.

are you questioning the veracity of that data?


this isn't an 'opinion' call, the revenue is the revenue...the outlays are the outlays.

I don't think anyone questions the veracity of the data; it's your conclusions drawn from it which are at issue. Your logic has an unspolen premise that because revenue has increased a given amount, there can be no argument that it should not be increased furher. This is obviously a false syllogism. If omeone had a fever of 106 degress and it was reduced to 104 does not mean the patient is healthy and no further treatment is necessary.

So when you are ready to discuss budget targets for revenue and spending in a realistic way, we have somethin to talk about.

hello, ask anyone in DC, we ALWAYS need revenue.......

so, excuse me but the argument that has been proffered is; we need revenue, fine, of course we do, we always do.....

And in light of the data, in that we have enshrined stimulus like spending in our last 3 years (aside from 09 the year OF the stimulus), if the President feels $80 some odd billion, from a rates hike on the "rich" is some type of panacea, heck lets call it $100 Bn ( as I still don't hear anything nearly as serious a proffer as to spending cuts- entitlements ) on a yearly deficit of $1.15 trillion ( this year as opposed to 1.3, 1.2 and 1.2 previous years) is the answer, out of a sense of fairness(?), I'd say that warrants some examination too, its just the usual, a distraction and a cheap propaganda tool that I don't consider serious.


Oh and I have said here before I am wiling to go along with the bush cuts expiring IF coupled with entitlement reform and the use of said funds when possible for deficit reduction/ debt retirement, now one might assume well, of course it will, as it concomitantly lowers what we borrow and lowers debt service payments etc. BUT do you trust them? I don't....I want to see it on paper, spelled out ...period, not a kiss and a promise, which is probably what we will get anyway.

 

[Trajan]

so, if the CBO is correct, the issue it NOT revenue, its SPENDING...most of us knew that but its always nice to see it spelled out.

In effect they want to spin the evil rich as misers unwilling to pay more, to cover for adding what amounts to another stimulus to every years' outlays....of course we don't have a formal budget as they have not created one for over 4 years, rolling along on Continuing Resolutions which has been the plan all along as they enshrine this spending level,as we don't get an accounting until now, the end of the federal fiscal year reflecting just what we have borrowed/spent for the year.



November 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. ET

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes." Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

snip-

This healthy revenue increase comes despite measly economic growth of between 1% and 2%. Imagine the gusher of revenue the feds could get if government got out of the way and let the economy grow faster.

Now let's look at outlays, which declined a bit in 2012. That small miracle was achieved thanks to a 4% fall in defense spending, a 24% fall in jobless benefits, and an 8.9% decline in Medicaid spending.

Note, however, that federal spending remains at a new plateau of about $3.54 trillion, or some $800 billion more than the last pre-recession year of 2007. One way to think about this is that most of the $830 billion stimulus of 2009 has now become part of the federal budget baseline. The "emergency" spending of the stimulus has now become permanent, as we predicted it would.

more at
Review & Outlook: The Hard Fiscal Facts - WSJ.com

excellent false dichotomy

thx!

 

[Trajan]

Does this mean we can have a serious discussion about cuts now?

always....but the smoke screen for raising rates on the 'rich' as anything but red meat is not serious.

let me ask a question; what amount of revenue is obama looking for? he NOW says 1.6 trillion on 10 years...so, 160 Bn a year, thats how much over what he asked last year? Double, last year during the late summer they were dealing on a cut to the deficit of $4 trillion over 10 years, and a revenue plan revenue for $800 billion.......now, we are doubling that? Is that serious?

all you seem to hear of is the revenue needed from the evil rich rate increase, what about revenues from the Obama Care tax increases?