Indiana makes it legal to shoot cops who illegally enter your home

[Quantum Windbag]

The punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

The reward for breaking into the wrong house and shooting at innocent people should not be a medal for valor either. Personally, I find the idea that police get an award for being wrong more offensive than a cop getting killed because he broke the law.

Editorial: Why give awards in botched police raid? | StarTribune.com

They certainly shouldn't have been awarded anything.

That doesn't change the fact that the punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

We are not talking about bad warrants, even if you think we are, we are talking about cops breaking the law and entering a home illegally. Bad warrants are not illegal.

Like I said, I would rather see cops who break the law learn that they do not have carte blanche than worry about something that no rational person actually thinks will happen.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are neglecting the legitimate concern that the occupant may be destroying evidence and/or continuing a violent illegal act.

I think it matters what the suspected crime is. If you think they are destroying evidence they are growing pot - its not worth anyone dying over - but if they are disposing of the body parts of their murder victims - that's entirely different.

I remember in Baton Rouge a few years back a non-violent pot grower was shot dead by the cops but he took one of them with him in defense of his own life. He had bought a weapon when criminals had stolen his crop - and we will never know for sure what was in his head when he pulled the trigger. Its entirely possible he legitimately feared for his life. He had no priors and his only crime was growing pot - it wasn't worth his life or the life of the officer.

No I am not, I don't think that concern is legitimate. What are they going to do, transport the evidence onto the Enterprise? The evidence will still be there, and the police will be alive. You cannot flush massive amounts of drugs, especially if the police cut the water supply first.

Maybe so but you can light it on fire. If its a drug like meth you may be able to react it with some chemicals and destroy it that way. If you planned ahead you might have enough water stored up to flush as much as you need down the toilet. Certainly if you knew ahead of time the cops would give you as much time as you needed, you'd probably have a good plan to destroy the evidence!

Clearly if you give someone as much time as they need they will find a way to at least minimize the evidence. You could take pot plants, run them through a blender, and spread the result evenly throughout your carpeted home, and there's no way the cops will be able to collect it all.

The way I see it is the evidence is still there, and the cops live through the experience.

I think the problem is more fundamental. Its the fact the growing pot IS a felony that is the problem. I figure, if its not worth a cop risking his life to stop it, its not worth making it a very serious crime. Would you agree?

Study chemistry. If someone lights a meth lab in fire they will kill themselves, and the police won't need evidence. Anything else and they can still find enough evidence in the ashes to prove what was burned.

I don't think any drugs should be illegal. All making them illegal has accomplished is making them cheaper and more available. If the government really wanted to eliminate drugs all they have to do is nationalize the industry, and it will kill itself off within a decade.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wow. This is awful. All the OWS morons who think EVERYTHING a cop does is illegal will think shooting any cop when they come to their home is ok. They'll think every drug search warrant is "illegal" and think they can shoot the cops.

If I were an Indiana cop, my response time would be VERY extended, if I showed up at all. Fuck it, let the people fend for themselves.

Good grief, we agree.

That alone proves how wrong both of you are.

 

[Douger]

I work law enforcement and even I support this. Police should not be entering your home without a warrant to begin with unless they have to intervene with a crime in progress.

You work LE? So did I, and I'm 100% against this. YOU of all folks should know the deal. It doesn't matter if we are there legally. This is important because it matters if the people THINK we are there legally or not. How many times are we there lawfully, and they think we aren't? And I dont have to tell you what % of people we deal with aren't mentally stable.

Cops are gonna get killed over this law, and it is wrong. If a crime is in progress, what are the odds the suspect or mentally disturbed person inside is gonna think we are there illegally? Who cares if they get tried and found guilty later, a cop may still be dead.

Typical fucking Nazi. If they're mentally disturbed you'll likely get shot anyway.
HOT TIP. Stay the fuck out without proper authority.
"OOOOOO I smelled weed and had probable cause".
In all actuality the mentally disturbed, much like hall monitors and meatheads, are the REAL mentally disturbed.

 

[Ravi]

The reward for breaking into the wrong house and shooting at innocent people should not be a medal for valor either. Personally, I find the idea that police get an award for being wrong more offensive than a cop getting killed because he broke the law.

Editorial: Why give awards in botched police raid? | StarTribune.com

They certainly shouldn't have been awarded anything.

That doesn't change the fact that the punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

We are not talking about bad warrants, even if you think we are, we are talking about cops breaking the law and entering a home illegally. Bad warrants are not illegal.

Like I said, I would rather see cops who break the law learn that they do not have carte blanche than worry about something that no rational person actually thinks will happen.

If the warrant is wrong, it makes the cops entering the house entering the house illegally.

And in Indiana, they can be killed for that.

That is just wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

They certainly shouldn't have been awarded anything.

That doesn't change the fact that the punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

We are not talking about bad warrants, even if you think we are, we are talking about cops breaking the law and entering a home illegally. Bad warrants are not illegal.

Like I said, I would rather see cops who break the law learn that they do not have carte blanche than worry about something that no rational person actually thinks will happen.

If the warrant is wrong, it makes the cops entering the house entering the house illegally.

And in Indiana, they can be killed for that.

That is just wrong.

Why are you against homeowners protecting themselves?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They certainly shouldn't have been awarded anything.

That doesn't change the fact that the punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

We are not talking about bad warrants, even if you think we are, we are talking about cops breaking the law and entering a home illegally. Bad warrants are not illegal.

Like I said, I would rather see cops who break the law learn that they do not have carte blanche than worry about something that no rational person actually thinks will happen.

If the warrant is wrong, it makes the cops entering the house entering the house illegally.

And in Indiana, they can be killed for that.

That is just wrong.

No it does not, ask Jillian if you don't believe me.

 

[J.E.D]

What an extremely stupid and dangerous law. There are countless circumstances in which a cop could be entering a home in a manner in which he or she believes is lawful, which may in fact turn out to be an unlawful entry. There are countless circumstances in which a person could believe his or her home is being entered unlawfully, but in fact, a cop is lawfully entering the home. So, Indiana has decided that, bearing that in mind, a person should be able to shoot first and ask questions later? The first time a cop gets murdered doing his job, this law will be repealed -- if it doesn't get thrown out first by a court of law.

 

[J.E.D]

We are not talking about bad warrants, even if you think we are, we are talking about cops breaking the law and entering a home illegally. Bad warrants are not illegal.

Like I said, I would rather see cops who break the law learn that they do not have carte blanche than worry about something that no rational person actually thinks will happen.

If the warrant is wrong, it makes the cops entering the house entering the house illegally.

And in Indiana, they can be killed for that.

That is just wrong.

Why are you against homeowners protecting themselves?

Why are you for cops being killed for doing their job?

 

[J.E.D]

If I remember correctly from Criminal Justice class, if a cop is acting on a warrant that he or she believes is valid, that cop is still acting lawfully. How does this law cover that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If I remember correctly from Criminal Justice class, if a cop is acting on a warrant that he or she believes is valid, that cop is still acting lawfully. How does this law cover that?

Why are people worried about cops who are not breaking the law being a hurt by a law that has nothing to do with cops who are not breaking a law? Do they not understand what illegal means?

By the way, this law does not authorize deadly force against police, it just prevents them from arresting you for not allowing them to break into your house when they do not have a warrant or probable cause, and they know they don't.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

They dont know a mistake is made until AFTER it's been served. Duh. Those are thankfully quite uncommon, but do happen. For example, especially on drug warrants. A snitch says "Joe Blow" lives at the white house on Main Street, 5th one on the right. And drives the cops there and points to it. Unfortunately, Joe Blow was drunk and high when he was at the house party, and the correct house is actually the white house, on Main, 5th one on the RIGHT.

Warrant was issued. Cops have all reason to believe it is right. Wrong house. They find out once inside, and it's a soccer mom and 55 year old husband. Damn. Nobody is hurt thank goodness. PD should pay for the families busted door and kiss some major ass to apologize, then take away Joe Blow's plea deal.

But you still dont want bullets flying. We aren't Mexico. If the cops show up, there is a 99.999999% chance they are there in good faith, and if you cooperate, and they are wrong, you'll come out fine, especially if it is just the wrong house. If you are committing a crime, but they didn't do the warrant right, you'll likely get off at court. Bullets are never the answer.

Until now, obviously, since these politicians decided to give residents the right to make that choice.

Soccer mom and 55yr old husband at home peacefully watching TV ad group of armed men break down their door.
Scenario 1) Husband grabs up his shotgun and opens fire, kills one cop, goes to jail.
Scenario 2) Husband grabs up his shotgun and opens fire, kills one cop and goes free.

I know which outcome I want.

You ever been on a tactical entry?

THAT scenario is exactly why they:

1) Knock and announce.

If no answer, they:

1) Breach door (kick or ram)
2) Pause....YELL "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT, POLICE SEARCH WARRANT" into the open door.
3) First two go in, with big ass patches on their vests that say "POLICE", and big bullet proof shields that say POLICE on the front.
4) As this happens, they continue to yell "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT, POLICE SEARCH WARRANT".

Now, if that dad can't read, or doesn't hear the 12 mean screaming police into his open front door, or hear them screaming "POLICE DEPARTMENT, SEARCH WARRANT" as they move into the open door, well, can't argue with that. Although I never once experienced someone who didn't know it was the cops coming in.

If the LE serves the warrant like you described then I do not think this new law would have been passed, but the way you described warrant being served is not always the case.

What about the Kathryn Johnston shooting in Atlanta? Wrong House, warrant was not served... the door was kicked in and the lady shot at the intruders, they were LE and shot her and killed her. If they properly served the warrant she would not be dead and for many other reasons.

What is most disturbing is states that allow "no knock warrants" I do not care about he reason they issue them, it is 100% in defiance of the Constitution and every shred of Sanity a normal person can think of.

There are dozens of home invaders every month that yell "police" and kick the door in, steal and murder people, this new law I would think is intended to stop that.

Anyone kicks in my door, I don't care what they yell, they will be shot... if they knock on my door and say they are LE and have a warrant no problem, they will not be shot.

.

 

[J.E.D]

If I remember correctly from Criminal Justice class, if a cop is acting on a warrant that he or she believes is valid, that cop is still acting lawfully. How does this law cover that?

Why are people worried about cops who are not breaking the law being a hurt by a law that has nothing to do with cops who are not breaking a law? Do they not understand what illegal means?

By the way, this law does not authorize deadly force against police, it just prevents them from arresting you for not allowing them to break into your house when they do not have a warrant or probable cause, and they know they don't.

It's not hard to understand. If an unlawful warrant is being executed, chances are, the LEO executing the warrant is unaware that it is flawed and therefore, unlawful. It is not the job of a LEO serving a warrant to personally verify that the warrant is entirely valid. A warrant is signed by a judge after its contents are sworn to be valid by two witnesses in front of said judge. The warrant is then executed by whatever LEO gets the job.

 

[Plasmaball]

Its interesting how people who cry " follow the constitution" are whining because they want to have the right to break the 4th amendment.

It isn't about a "right" to break the amendment. Its about not getting cops killed when they do it, almost always by accident or ignorance....and yes, occassionally in corruption. Those misdeeds are often found out in court and corrected.

I'm not too egotistical to admit the 4th amendment gets violated daily by cops, mostly due to laziness or ignorance for very petty stuff like searching cars on traffic stops or a persons pockets. I'd say about 5% of searches violate it. Almost every one of those are the street level petty ones involving a pat down or car search. Wrong? Yes. Should we shoot cops for those?

Nobody is saying shoot cops for a pat down. They are saying you can't enter a private property without a warrant.

There is a difference, and sadly you don't get it. My 4th amendment rights trump you being a cop.

Of course this coming from a guy who thought the OWS was behind this and didnt even bother to read that it was a Right-wing group who lobbied for it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Its interesting how people who cry " follow the constitution" are whining because they want to have the right to break the 4th amendment.

The punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

I shouldnt loose my rights because of a bad warrant. This is how we got things like the NDAA and Patriot Act. Better safe than sorry isn't always better. Either we have rights. OR we have rights, until someone decides we shouldn't anymore based on a whim or safety.

Which means our rights mean jack shit.

 

[Ravi]

Its interesting how people who cry " follow the constitution" are whining because they want to have the right to break the 4th amendment.

The punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

I shouldnt loose my rights because of a bad warrant. This is how we got things like the NDAA and Patriot Act. Better safe than sorry isn't always better. Either we have rights. OR we have rights, until someone decides we shouldn't anymore based on a whim or safety.

Which means our rights mean jack shit.

No offense, but the punishment for a bad warrant shouldn't be death.

 

[J.E.D]

Plasma, I typically agree with you, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I agree with Ravi. There are other ways to deal with an unlawful warrant.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the warrant is wrong, it makes the cops entering the house entering the house illegally.

And in Indiana, they can be killed for that.

That is just wrong.

Why are you against homeowners protecting themselves?

Why are you for cops being killed for doing their job?

Screwig up is not doing their job. Their job is to get it right.
Again, why are you against homeowners protecting themselves?

 

[The Rabbi]

If I remember correctly from Criminal Justice class, if a cop is acting on a warrant that he or she believes is valid, that cop is still acting lawfully. How does this law cover that?

Why are people worried about cops who are not breaking the law being a hurt by a law that has nothing to do with cops who are not breaking a law? Do they not understand what illegal means?

By the way, this law does not authorize deadly force against police, it just prevents them from arresting you for not allowing them to break into your house when they do not have a warrant or probable cause, and they know they don't.

It's not hard to understand. If an unlawful warrant is being executed, chances are, the LEO executing the warrant is unaware that it is flawed and therefore, unlawful. It is not the job of a LEO serving a warrant to personally verify that the warrant is entirely valid. A warrant is signed by a judge after its contents are sworn to be valid by two witnesses in front of said judge. The warrant is then executed by whatever LEO gets the job.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
It is the job of the LEO to be certain he is executing a valid warrant. "I was just following orders" failed since Nuremburg.

 

[tjvh]

Well go right ahead and shoot a Cop executing a Lawful Warrant, or otherwise... And see how far you get with that.