Indiana is for Bigots - video and Pence running for cover

[ChrisL]

Waiting to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting to clean up the city.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to put on a black shirt.
Waiting to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors.
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to turn on the showers
And fire the ovens.
Waiting for the queens and the coons
and the reds and the jews.
Waiting to follow the worms.

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics

Oh, how poignant. A little hyperbolic?

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics
probably not to the next homo to get their head kicked in by some simpleton because the state confirmed they are less than

Well, we aren't discussing beatings. We are discussing business owners and their choices.

 

[ChrisL]

Waiting to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting to clean up the city.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to put on a black shirt.
Waiting to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors.
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to turn on the showers
And fire the ovens.
Waiting for the queens and the coons
and the reds and the jews.
Waiting to follow the worms.

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics

Oh, how poignant. A little hyperbolic?

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics
probably not to the next homo to get their head kicked in by some simpleton because the state confirmed they are less than

Forcing them to do things isn't going to change their views.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Maybe you should learn Islam, where an insult of a thousand years ago was fucking yesterday. Oh that's right, you have no clue about Islam because you never studied it, like the rest of the dumbshits here.

And somehow, by magic I guess, a religion of warriors is supposed to be better than a religion of peacemakers, who spent five hundred years chopping off the heads of Muslims, Jews, and other unbelievers, when that is they weren't slaughtering each other. History matters, learn to apply it.

No, THAT is not relevant to today. That is absurd.

You are utterly wrong. You cannot begin to understand Islam until you understand the world as they see it, an eternal struggle (Jihad), to convert man to the Will (Submission), of God (Allah). Those fighting for ISIS expect to die, in vast numbers, it's required for them to win. 19 out of 20 will die, but God will win in the end.

You don't know your enemy therefore, you cannot win. And while I know your enemy, I am more their enemy than you will ever be. You are the unconverted, I am the devil himself.

I do understand that. THAT is why it is a stupid idea to agree to any kind of "deals" with them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

No, you don't understand. Your response was shallow, instant, and dogmatic. Know your enemy, which means walk a mile in his shoes, his Holy Book, and his history.

Yes I do understand. Making deals with such people is utterly ridiculous.

It's not the making of the deal that is ridiculous, it's the idea that a deal exists in the first place. What Iran builds, as a nation, is their fucking business, not ours.

And you are utterly clueless on Islam, which is vastly more complicated than this deal, which isn't one.

 

[eots]

Waiting to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting to clean up the city.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to put on a black shirt.
Waiting to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors.
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to turn on the showers
And fire the ovens.
Waiting for the queens and the coons
and the reds and the jews.
Waiting to follow the worms.

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics

Oh, how poignant. A little hyperbolic?

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics
probably not to the next homo to get their head kicked in by some simpleton because the state confirmed they are less than

Well, we aren't discussing beatings. We are discussing business owners and their choices.

we're talking about state sanctioned discrimination

 

[TemplarKormac]

Their sexual preference is no one else's business but their own.

My religious beliefs as a theoretical business owner is none of your business but my own. Ring a bell?

The hatred needs to stop.

Tell me about it. ...he who is without sin...

But you have no right to discriminate against them because they are homosexuals.

You have no right to impose on the beliefs of others. What if I suddenly tried to force my lifestyle on you? What if I sued you in the court of law to make you adhere to it? What if the court agreed, fined you, destroyed you and your livelihood, all because you wouldn't bend to my lifestyle?

Just how would you feel?

I intensely dislike Catholicism, but love my family. You can intensely dislike homosexuality for whatever reason. You can even dislike the homosexual.

I don't even dislike or hate homosexuals, I support their right to be married under the law even though I find such an activity to turn my stomach, repeatedly.

But what I don't like is members of their community singling out people of faith for the pure gain of having them brought before a judge and made to condone their lifestyle. Discrimination is inherently wrong, and by all rights the proprietor should serve them under existing law, but there must be a line drawn when such a law would force them to go against their long held beliefs.

I can have contempt for a religion or a religious view, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the religious PERSON.

Isn't that a contradiction?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I think that a business owner should be able to choose who she or he does business with.

Well, the Supreme Court disagreed, six decades ago. Now what?

 

[Dana7360]

In the first place, a cake isn't a public accommodation.

It is if you are selling it from a business open to the public. Do you understand what words mean?

In the second, a business has the right to deny service for any reason it wants. No one has a right to be served.

That isn't actually true. You have some severe misunderstandings about how the law works.

By what basis do people lose their constitutional rights when they sell to the public?

The basis is Capitalism is regulated here, Now you know.

It's regulated in violation of the Constitution.

Utter B.S. The regulation of economic activity is clearly acknowledged in the Constitution.

Wow.

It's embarrassing that we have such ill informed people in our nation. Where was that person when they were supposed to be learning the constitution with the rest of US History? Yet they're the same people who wrap themselves in the flag and declare that they love our nation and what we stand for.

But then people like that only believe and follow the parts of our constitution they like, such as the second amendment.

They have no idea what the commerce clause is. I know I've posted it several times but I'll do it again. Some people need things repeated before it actually sinks in. It's one simple and very intelligent sentence in the constitution. The founders of America knew that unregulated capitalism only leads to monopolies and oligarchies.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:[3]

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes

 

[eots]

Waiting to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting to clean up the city.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to put on a black shirt.
Waiting to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors.
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to turn on the showers
And fire the ovens.
Waiting for the queens and the coons
and the reds and the jews.
Waiting to follow the worms.

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics

Oh, how poignant. A little hyperbolic?

Waiting for Worms lyrics - The Wall Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics
probably not to the next homo to get their head kicked in by some simpleton because the state confirmed they are less than

Forcing them to do things isn't going to change their views.

No but it will change behaviour

 

[ChrisL]

No, THAT is not relevant to today. That is absurd.

You are utterly wrong. You cannot begin to understand Islam until you understand the world as they see it, an eternal struggle (Jihad), to convert man to the Will (Submission), of God (Allah). Those fighting for ISIS expect to die, in vast numbers, it's required for them to win. 19 out of 20 will die, but God will win in the end.

You don't know your enemy therefore, you cannot win. And while I know your enemy, I am more their enemy than you will ever be. You are the unconverted, I am the devil himself.

I do understand that. THAT is why it is a stupid idea to agree to any kind of "deals" with them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

No, you don't understand. Your response was shallow, instant, and dogmatic. Know your enemy, which means walk a mile in his shoes, his Holy Book, and his history.

Yes I do understand. Making deals with such people is utterly ridiculous.

It's not the making of the deal that is ridiculous, it's the idea that a deal exists in the first place. What Iran builds, as a nation, is their fucking business, not ours.

And you are utterly clueless on Islam, which is vastly more complicated than this deal, which isn't one.

No, I'm not. I probably know more than you. No it is our business when a rogue country builds a damn bomb, a country which harbors and funds terrorists, and a country which threatens the world.

 

[orogenicman]

That's right, wear that bigotry on your sleeve like a good chap.

It's not bigotry. It's well deserved contempt.

Definitely bigotry.

What isn't bigotry? Why isn't contempt towards a Christian deemed bigotry? Hmm?

A bigot is "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)."

Whether or not contempt is involved is irrelevant. I can have contempt of court because of a specific idea that I abhore, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the judge. I can have contempt for a religion or a religious view, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the religious PERSON. One can disagree with the religion and like the religious. My family is a classic example. I'm an atheist. Most of the rest of my family is devout Catholic. I intensely dislike Catholicism, but love my family. You can intensely dislike homosexuality for whatever reason. You can even dislike the homosexual. But you have no right to discriminate against them because they are homosexuals. The hatred needs to stop. They aren't hurting anyone by being gay any more than heterosexuals are hurting anyone by being heterosexual. Their sexual preference is no one else's business but their own.

I have to disagree. I think that a business owner should be able to choose who she or he does business with. There could be many different reasons why a person would choose not to do business with another. The government has no right to involve itself in those choices.

Do you believe that a business owner should have the right to refuse to do business with a black man because of the color of his skin? Or with a Jew because your religious beliefs are anti-Semitic? Or with a Christian because he despises Christians? This law does nothing to protect anyone. On the contrary, it only further polarizes society.

The fact of the matter is that under the 14th amendment, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes, about the thread topic, I would say that the government should not be able to FORCE a business to do business with people they do not wish to do business with. While I support equal rights for gay people, I don't want the government being able to involve itself in personal or business matters of the people.

Those people will just lose business and money. That is how capitalism works. Why would you want to do business with a person like that anyways?

You're entitled to your opinion, provided you understand it's ignorant and wrong.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy as authorized by the Commerce Clause – business owners are not being 'forced' to do anything, their rights are not being 'violated,' nor their religious liberty 'infringed.'

And the notion that 'market forces' will address the problem of business owners discriminating against gay Americans is naïve and foolish.

 

[ChrisL]

I think that a business owner should be able to choose who she or he does business with.

Well, the Supreme Court disagreed, six decades ago. Now what?

Ask Indiana. I don't think those business owners are right. It is a really stupid business practice to discriminate, but I do think that the government should not involve itself. It is YOUR business. If you want to risk going out of business, that's on you.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You are utterly wrong. You cannot begin to understand Islam until you understand the world as they see it, an eternal struggle (Jihad), to convert man to the Will (Submission), of God (Allah). Those fighting for ISIS expect to die, in vast numbers, it's required for them to win. 19 out of 20 will die, but God will win in the end.

You don't know your enemy therefore, you cannot win. And while I know your enemy, I am more their enemy than you will ever be. You are the unconverted, I am the devil himself.

I do understand that. THAT is why it is a stupid idea to agree to any kind of "deals" with them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

No, you don't understand. Your response was shallow, instant, and dogmatic. Know your enemy, which means walk a mile in his shoes, his Holy Book, and his history.

Yes I do understand. Making deals with such people is utterly ridiculous.

It's not the making of the deal that is ridiculous, it's the idea that a deal exists in the first place. What Iran builds, as a nation, is their fucking business, not ours.

And you are utterly clueless on Islam, which is vastly more complicated than this deal, which isn't one.

No, I'm not. I probably know more than you. No it is our business when a rogue country builds a damn bomb, a country which harbors and funds terrorists, and a country which threatens the world.

You know nothing, obviously. I know Islam, which is why I don't repeat dogma, as you do. Iran scares you, that's as far as your knowledge goes.

 

[ChrisL]

It's not bigotry. It's well deserved contempt.

Definitely bigotry.

What isn't bigotry? Why isn't contempt towards a Christian deemed bigotry? Hmm?

A bigot is "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)."

Whether or not contempt is involved is irrelevant. I can have contempt of court because of a specific idea that I abhore, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the judge. I can have contempt for a religion or a religious view, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the religious PERSON. One can disagree with the religion and like the religious. My family is a classic example. I'm an atheist. Most of the rest of my family is devout Catholic. I intensely dislike Catholicism, but love my family. You can intensely dislike homosexuality for whatever reason. You can even dislike the homosexual. But you have no right to discriminate against them because they are homosexuals. The hatred needs to stop. They aren't hurting anyone by being gay any more than heterosexuals are hurting anyone by being heterosexual. Their sexual preference is no one else's business but their own.

I have to disagree. I think that a business owner should be able to choose who she or he does business with. There could be many different reasons why a person would choose not to do business with another. The government has no right to involve itself in those choices.

Do you believe that a business owner should have the right to refuse to do business with a black man because of the color of his skin? Or with a Jew because your religious beliefs are anti-Semitic? Or with a Christian because he despises Christians? This law does nothing to protect anyone. On the contrary, it only further polarizes society.

The fact of the matter is that under the 14th amendment, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Yes, I do. I don't think that buying a cake from a particular business is a constitutional right at all. Sorry. Like I said, the capitalism system will take care of it when those particular people lose business. MOST smart business owners would not do this, regardless of their personal belief system anyways.

 

[ChrisL]

I do understand that. THAT is why it is a stupid idea to agree to any kind of "deals" with them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, as the saying goes.

No, you don't understand. Your response was shallow, instant, and dogmatic. Know your enemy, which means walk a mile in his shoes, his Holy Book, and his history.

Yes I do understand. Making deals with such people is utterly ridiculous.

It's not the making of the deal that is ridiculous, it's the idea that a deal exists in the first place. What Iran builds, as a nation, is their fucking business, not ours.

And you are utterly clueless on Islam, which is vastly more complicated than this deal, which isn't one.

No, I'm not. I probably know more than you. No it is our business when a rogue country builds a damn bomb, a country which harbors and funds terrorists, and a country which threatens the world.

You know nothing, obviously. I know Islam, which is why I don't repeat dogma, as you do. Iran scares you, that's as far as your knowledge goes.

Please, I'm the one who had to teach you about the 12th Imam. Remember?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I think that a business owner should be able to choose who she or he does business with.

Well, the Supreme Court disagreed, six decades ago. Now what?

Ask Indiana. I don't think those business owners are right. It is a really stupid business practice to discriminate, but I do think that the government should not involve itself. It is YOUR business. If you want to risk going out of business, that's on you.

You can "think" anything you like but the concept in the law was established six decades ago. The only fight is who is on the list of those you can't reject out of hand.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, about the thread topic, I would say that the government should not be able to FORCE a business to do business with people they do not wish to do business with. While I support equal rights for gay people, I don't want the government being able to involve itself in personal or business matters of the people.

Those people will just lose business and money. That is how capitalism works. Why would you want to do business with a person like that anyways?

You're entitled to your opinion, provided you understand it's ignorant and wrong.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy as authorized by the Commerce Clause – business owners are not being 'forced' to do anything, their rights are not being 'violated,' nor their religious liberty 'infringed.'

And the notion that 'market forces' will address the problem of business owners discriminating against gay Americans is naïve and foolish.

I disagree. A business should be able to choose who it does business with without government interference. Just like, if I don't like a person, I don't have to be friends with that person, nor do I have to be "nice" to that person.

As long as I don't hurt or abuse that person, I am NOT breaking any laws, and I am entitled to my opinions. This is supposed to be a FREE country.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No, you don't understand. Your response was shallow, instant, and dogmatic. Know your enemy, which means walk a mile in his shoes, his Holy Book, and his history.

Yes I do understand. Making deals with such people is utterly ridiculous.

It's not the making of the deal that is ridiculous, it's the idea that a deal exists in the first place. What Iran builds, as a nation, is their fucking business, not ours.

And you are utterly clueless on Islam, which is vastly more complicated than this deal, which isn't one.

No, I'm not. I probably know more than you. No it is our business when a rogue country builds a damn bomb, a country which harbors and funds terrorists, and a country which threatens the world.

You know nothing, obviously. I know Islam, which is why I don't repeat dogma, as you do. Iran scares you, that's as far as your knowledge goes.

Please, I'm the one who had to teach you about the 12th Imam. Remember?

Sweetheart, I have no idea who you were talking to, but you've never taught me anything, and it's very doubtful that you could.

 

[Dana7360]

look....if that's what Indiana wants ....who are we to say no?

I do respect their decision.

Because it violates the constitution.

The 14th amendment clearly says that everyone is to be treated equally under the law.

The government of Indiana has written and passed a law that makes it legal to not treat everyone equally under the law.

The federal Constitution trumps state laws. If a state law violates the constitution that law isn't implemented.

I'm sure that people are right now taking steps to challenge that law in court. No court in the nation is going to allow a state to violate the Constitution.

I just want to know how a gay person is going to be able to eat food if the only store in their small town won't sell food to them because they're gay?

Or how is a gay person going to get the proper medical treatment if the only doctor in their small town refuses to treat them because they're gay?

 

[ChrisL]

look....if that's what Indiana wants ....who are we to say no?

I do respect their decision.

Because it violates the constitution.

The 14th amendment clearly says that everyone is to be treated equally under the law.

The government of Indiana has written and passed a law that makes it legal to not treat everyone equally under the law.

The federal Constitution trumps state laws. If a state law violates the constitution that law isn't implemented.

I'm sure that people are right now taking steps to challenge that law in court. No court in the nation is going to allow a state to violate the Constitution.

I just want to know how a gay person is going to be able to eat food if the only store in their small town won't sell food to them because they're gay?

Or how is a gay person going to get the proper medical treatment if the only doctor in their small town refuses to treat them because they're gay?

Well, you make a good point, especially with the doctor. I don't like it though. The government telling you that you don't have the choice when it is your own business? Besides, gay is not a religion, nor is it a race or gender.