Independents, Third Party, Libertarians, Greens, Socialists, etc: Show thyselves.

[Hiryuu]

The policies of the parties don't bother me. It's good to see a firm agenda from someone you're voting for. I looked into the Libertarians in '16, but it was WAY too gooshy--I had no clue what I would actually be voting for, what it would look like in action.
The problem with the two parties at this point is that they are involved in their own private knife fight for supremacy and they have given up trying to represent the people and actually do their job for the country, whatever they believe in. That's the problem with them.

I don't know if a third party would straighten them out or not, but at least it would be an alternative.

Libertarians will always have the problems inherent to liberty. It is extremely difficult to sell people who don't mind giving up their liberties, on the idea that their liberties are more important than what they are willing to give them up for.

As a result, it is hard to have a unified platform, with individual liberty as a cornerstone. They are forced to chase demographics in order to gain votes, when their objective is to make everyone's liberty just as important. They can only satisfy personal concerns (or concerns you may have), when those concerns are not in conflict with someone's liberty or the libertarian stance.

I have a Libertarian friend I often joke with when I tell her, "You are staunch Libertarian, right up to the point you disagree with what someone else is doing".

 

[OldLady]

The policies of the parties don't bother me. It's good to see a firm agenda from someone you're voting for. I looked into the Libertarians in '16, but it was WAY too gooshy--I had no clue what I would actually be voting for, what it would look like in action.
The problem with the two parties at this point is that they are involved in their own private knife fight for supremacy and they have given up trying to represent the people and actually do their job for the country, whatever they believe in. That's the problem with them.

I don't know if a third party would straighten them out or not, but at least it would be an alternative.

Libertarians will always have the problems inherent to liberty. It is extremely difficult to sell people who don't mind giving up their liberties, on the idea that their liberties are more important than what they are willing to give them up for.

As a result, it is hard to have a unified platform, with individual liberty as a cornerstone. They are forced to chase demographics in order to gain votes, when their objective is to make everyone's liberty just as important. They can only satisfy personal concerns (or concerns you may have), when those concerns are not in conflict with someone's liberty or the libertarian stance.

I have a Libertarian friend I often joke with when I tell her, "You are staunch Libertarian, right up to the point you disagree with what someone else is doing".

Hiryuu, even that was confusing.
lol

 

[Hiryuu]

The policies of the parties don't bother me. It's good to see a firm agenda from someone you're voting for. I looked into the Libertarians in '16, but it was WAY too gooshy--I had no clue what I would actually be voting for, what it would look like in action.
The problem with the two parties at this point is that they are involved in their own private knife fight for supremacy and they have given up trying to represent the people and actually do their job for the country, whatever they believe in. That's the problem with them.

I don't know if a third party would straighten them out or not, but at least it would be an alternative.

Libertarians will always have the problems inherent to liberty. It is extremely difficult to sell people who don't mind giving up their liberties, on the idea that their liberties are more important than what they are willing to give them up for.

As a result, it is hard to have a unified platform, with individual liberty as a cornerstone. They are forced to chase demographics in order to gain votes, when their objective is to make everyone's liberty just as important. They can only satisfy personal concerns (or concerns you may have), when those concerns are not in conflict with someone's liberty or the libertarian stance.

I have a Libertarian friend I often joke with when I tell her, "You are staunch Libertarian, right up to the point you disagree with what someone else is doing".

Hiryuu, even that was confusing.
lol

Not really OldLady, just think about it this way. If your mission as a candidate is to ensure you protect the individual's rights, how are you going to represent a platform that represents a specific stance on a specific right that two people are opposed to (unless their platform is to leave it up to the individual)?

The premise of the Libertarian party is to protect the People's liberties (from government), so if you want government to tell everyone what they can or cannot do, then a Libertarian will never be a candidate with a platform you could support. Being a Libertarian means that you accept the responsibility for doing what you are supposed to do, and allow others to do what they think is best, without forcing everyone to do what you want them to.

 

[OldLady]

The policies of the parties don't bother me. It's good to see a firm agenda from someone you're voting for. I looked into the Libertarians in '16, but it was WAY too gooshy--I had no clue what I would actually be voting for, what it would look like in action.
The problem with the two parties at this point is that they are involved in their own private knife fight for supremacy and they have given up trying to represent the people and actually do their job for the country, whatever they believe in. That's the problem with them.

I don't know if a third party would straighten them out or not, but at least it would be an alternative.

Libertarians will always have the problems inherent to liberty. It is extremely difficult to sell people who don't mind giving up their liberties, on the idea that their liberties are more important than what they are willing to give them up for.

As a result, it is hard to have a unified platform, with individual liberty as a cornerstone. They are forced to chase demographics in order to gain votes, when their objective is to make everyone's liberty just as important. They can only satisfy personal concerns (or concerns you may have), when those concerns are not in conflict with someone's liberty or the libertarian stance.

I have a Libertarian friend I often joke with when I tell her, "You are staunch Libertarian, right up to the point you disagree with what someone else is doing".

Hiryuu, even that was confusing.
lol

Not really OldLady, just think about it this way. If your mission as a candidate is to ensure you protect the individual's rights, how are you going to represent a platform that represents a specific stance on a specific right that two people are opposed to (unless their platform is to leave it up to the individual)?

The premise of the Libertarian party is to protect the People's liberties (from government), so if you want government to tell everyone what they can or cannot do, then a Libertarian will never be a candidate with a platform you could support. Being a Libertarian means that you accept the responsibility for doing what you are supposed to do, and allow others to do what they think is best, without forcing everyone to do what you want them to.

That was more clear.
I trust me to do what I am supposed to do, but I sure as hell don't trust everyone else. I'd make a lousy Libertarian.

 

[Hiryuu]

That was more clear.
I trust me to do what I am supposed to do, but I sure as hell don't trust everyone else. I'd make a lousy Libertarian.

You don't have to trust them, because you are not responsible for their decisions or liberties.

It's why a Libertarian can support same sex marriage and be opposed to making a baker make a same sex couple a cake.
It's why a Libertarian can be pro-choice and hate abortions, because being pro-choice means you can make bad choices.
It's why a Libertarian can be pro second amendment, and not embrace the idea of people shooting up schools.

It's not about what you want or think you are supposed to do, it's about who you want to give the authority to decide what I can do.

 

[fncceo]

because of promise them the moon

What would you do with the moon if you had it? The upkeep alone is ridiculously expensive.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Alright. Those are the people I want to hear from in this thread. Vote in the poll, please, for no other reason than to be counted and acknowledged. It is not intended for debate, though, civil debate is always encouraged.

Now. Trends. For all of the numbers we hear, the one thing we never see discussed on mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms are trends. And there's good reason for that. After all, they don't call it programming fier nothing.

Here's why. 50%.

Using the 2014 Mid-Term results as a model, 50% of American voters were no longer affiliated with either the Republican or Democrat parties. 50%.

Support for the two-party system has been falling every year. Every year people are becoming more and more fed up with this fake two-party system. It's why Congress can have such a miserable approval rating that it does.

2014 was an unprecedented year because third party candidates had the highest polling numbers in modern history. Debate rules were changed as a consequence so that independents were blocked from debate, even after winning the opportunity, and they were illegally removed from ballots.

Rule 40b, the Ron Paul rule, for example, was enlisted after he already won the opportunity to debate. This, of course, was said to be a means of showing unity in the GOP.

Now, that gave us Trump in 2016. And of similar notion, Bernie was also blocked from the DNC nomination as well. The GOP hated Trump. But, they later realized that he was a factor in repopularizing the GOP, so they nominated him. As well, the DNC did not want Bernie wrecking the status quo, even after he earned the right to be heard. Both those groups, like em or not, won the delegate game to the extent that they needed and they earned the right to speak.

Here's the point. Do not think for one second that the establishment bosses in the fake two-party system haven't noticed the recent trend in Independents, third parties, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, etc, and do not think for one second they won't continue doing something about it. It's rigged!


That's really all I have to say about it.

Independents, third party, libertarians, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, I don't care what your worldview is, just vote "No" if you do not affiliate with either the Democrat or Republican Party in the poll please.

I wanna see what we're working with.

Thanks!

I "checked" yes, I'm a democrat [registered] but sometimes vote for both GOP and socialist candidates.
voted for Johnson in 16 and cynthia nixon here in NY this past 9/13/18

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Alright. Those are the people I want to hear from in this thread. Vote in the poll, please, for no other reason than to be counted and acknowledged. It is not intended for debate, though, civil debate is always encouraged.

Now. Trends. For all of the numbers we hear, the one thing we never see discussed on mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms are trends. And there's good reason for that. After all, they don't call it programming fier nothing.

Here's why. 50%.

Using the 2014 Mid-Term results as a model, 50% of American voters were no longer affiliated with either the Republican or Democrat parties. 50%.

Support for the two-party system has been falling every year. Every year people are becoming more and more fed up with this fake two-party system. It's why Congress can have such a miserable approval rating that it does.

2014 was an unprecedented year because third party candidates had the highest polling numbers in modern history. Debate rules were changed as a consequence so that independents were blocked from debate, even after winning the opportunity, and they were illegally removed from ballots.

Rule 40b, the Ron Paul rule, for example, was enlisted after he already won the opportunity to debate. This, of course, was said to be a means of showing unity in the GOP.

Now, that gave us Trump in 2016. And of similar notion, Bernie was also blocked from the DNC nomination as well. The GOP hated Trump. But, they later realized that he was a factor in repopularizing the GOP, so they nominated him. As well, the DNC did not want Bernie wrecking the status quo, even after he earned the right to be heard. Both those groups, like em or not, won the delegate game to the extent that they needed and they earned the right to speak.

Here's the point. Do not think for one second that the establishment bosses in the fake two-party system haven't noticed the recent trend in Independents, third parties, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, etc, and do not think for one second they won't continue doing something about it. It's rigged!


That's really all I have to say about it.

Independents, third party, libertarians, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, I don't care what your worldview is, just vote "No" if you do not affiliate with either the Democrat or Republican Party in the poll please.

I wanna see what we're working with.

Thanks!

Trump is the Third party that is why he was elected.

 

[Freiheit]

because of promise them the moon

What would you do with the moon if you had it? The upkeep alone is ridiculously expensive.

Seems no one thinks of that until they get the bill. Ms Thatcher was right“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

 

[buttercup]

I'm a registered independent, and the only Republican I voted for was Ron Paul. I've been saying for years that we have have a one party system disguised as two. I mean, look at how all the unconstitutional wars continue on and on, regardless of who is in office. Look at how both parties grow the government, just in different ways. Look at how both support unconstitutional, anti-freedom legislation, like the Patriot Act, etc. And both have no problem with the Federal Reserve. I think all of this is by design.

I know I've posted this video 1 million times before, but I'll share it again because even though it's from over 10 years ago, it is still relevant today…

Support for the two-party system has been falling every year. Every year people are becoming more and more fed up with this fake two-party system. It's why Congress can have such a miserable approval rating that it does.

I hope that is true, but when I look around, it doesn't seem to be. If people haven't caught on by now what is happening, maybe they never will. I could be wrong about that though.

Here's the point. Do not think for one second that the establishment bosses in the fake two-party system haven't noticed the recent trend in Independents, third parties, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, etc, and do not think for one second they won't continue doing something about it. It's rigged!

I agree, and they are trying really hard to keep up the charade. You know how I feel about politics these days… After what happened to Ron Paul, I sort of lost hope in the entire process. So now all I want to do is try to expose the corruption, subversion and all the fakeness.

 

[Natural Citizen]

....

I agree, and they are trying really hard to keep up the charade. You know how I feel about politics these days… After what happened to Ron Paul, I sort of lost hope in the entire process. So now all I want to do is try to expose the corruption, subversion and all the fakeness.

I still look back at '08 and '12 and wonder how we got away with some of the stuff we pulled off. lolol. Gosh. Especially '08. We made Obama and Trump's crowds look like Sunday brunch. And, yeah, they screwed us in the end.

No matter what, win or lose, it won't ever be said that we stood around and did nothing. Nope.

Hear, hear!

Agreed on the rest of your posting. Good vid, that's an old one.

 

[sealybobo]

Alright. Those are the people I want to hear from in this thread. Vote in the poll, please, for no other reason than to be counted and acknowledged. It is not intended for debate, though, civil debate is always encouraged.

Now. Trends. For all of the numbers we hear, the one thing we never see discussed on mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms are trends. And there's good reason for that. After all, they don't call it programming fier nothing.

Here's why. 50%.

Using the 2014 Mid-Term results as a model, 50% of American voters were no longer affiliated with either the Republican or Democrat parties. 50%.

Support for the two-party system has been falling every year. Every year people are becoming more and more fed up with this fake two-party system. It's why Congress can have such a miserable approval rating that it does.

2014 was an unprecedented year because third party candidates had the highest polling numbers in modern history. Debate rules were changed as a consequence so that independents were blocked from debate, even after winning the opportunity, and they were illegally removed from ballots.

Rule 40b, the Ron Paul rule, for example, was enlisted after he already won the opportunity to debate. This, of course, was said to be a means of showing unity in the GOP.

Now, that gave us Trump in 2016. And of similar notion, Bernie was also blocked from the DNC nomination as well. The GOP hated Trump. But, they later realized that he was a factor in repopularizing the GOP, so they nominated him. As well, the DNC did not want Bernie wrecking the status quo, even after he earned the right to be heard. Both those groups, like em or not, won the delegate game to the extent that they needed and they earned the right to speak.

Here's the point. Do not think for one second that the establishment bosses in the fake two-party system haven't noticed the recent trend in Independents, third parties, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, etc, and do not think for one second they won't continue doing something about it. It's rigged!


That's really all I have to say about it.

Independents, third party, libertarians, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, I don't care what your worldview is, just vote "No" if you do not affiliate with either the Democrat or Republican Party in the poll please.

I wanna see what we're working with.

Thanks!

The media is not liberal. When 7 corporations own 80% of the media, we’re all being duped. It’s true the democrats are almost just as corrupt as the gop but that’s because that’s the corrupt system we have. But it’s not their fault or republicans. It’s the stupid voters.

Remember when republicans obstructed obama in 09? Did we vote them out in 10? Nope. The ignorant independents who showed up for obama didn’t show up. Then they didn’t show up for hillary.

So republicans were rewarded for their obstruction. No need to stop behaving badly. They got enough voters duped and enough Americans don’t show up.

So blame the American voter and bad citizens who don’t vote.

Don’t expect the middle class to grow under republicans. They only benefit the rich. The rest of you are idiots voting gop.

Now if you voted democratic enough times the republicans would be forced to change. Now they and I know they never have to change. The American people are officially stupid

 

[petro]

Alright. Those are the people I want to hear from in this thread. Vote in the poll, please, for no other reason than to be counted and acknowledged. It is not intended for debate, though, civil debate is always encouraged.

Now. Trends. For all of the numbers we hear, the one thing we never see discussed on mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms are trends. And there's good reason for that. After all, they don't call it programming fier nothing.

Here's why. 50%.

Using the 2014 Mid-Term results as a model, 50% of American voters were no longer affiliated with either the Republican or Democrat parties. 50%.

Support for the two-party system has been falling every year. Every year people are becoming more and more fed up with this fake two-party system. It's why Congress can have such a miserable approval rating that it does.

2014 was an unprecedented year because third party candidates had the highest polling numbers in modern history. Debate rules were changed as a consequence so that independents were blocked from debate, even after winning the opportunity, and they were illegally removed from ballots.

Rule 40b, the Ron Paul rule, for example, was enlisted after he already won the opportunity to debate. This, of course, was said to be a means of showing unity in the GOP.

Now, that gave us Trump in 2016. And of similar notion, Bernie was also blocked from the DNC nomination as well. The GOP hated Trump. But, they later realized that he was a factor in repopularizing the GOP, so they nominated him. As well, the DNC did not want Bernie wrecking the status quo, even after he earned the right to be heard. Both those groups, like em or not, won the delegate game to the extent that they needed and they earned the right to speak.

Here's the point. Do not think for one second that the establishment bosses in the fake two-party system haven't noticed the recent trend in Independents, third parties, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, etc, and do not think for one second they won't continue doing something about it. It's rigged!


That's really all I have to say about it.

Independents, third party, libertarians, greens, socialists, constitutionalists, I don't care what your worldview is, just vote "No" if you do not affiliate with either the Democrat or Republican Party in the poll please.

I wanna see what we're working with.

Thanks!

Trump is the Third party that is why he was elected.

That was also my line of reasoning during the election.
Before Trump announced I had vowed to vote neither party as at the time we were setting for a pathetic rehash of Clinton and Bush. Been there, done that.

Saw a poster just the other day here, I believe on another of Natural Citizens threads was a Bernie supporter who bailed on the dems after Hillary was picked.

Actually appreciate this thread by Natural Citizen and the thoughtful replys from all. It's too rare here.

 

[buttercup]

The media is not liberal. When 7 corporations own 80% of the media, we’re all being duped. It’s true the democrats are almost just as corrupt as the gop but that’s because that’s the corrupt system we have. But it’s not their fault or republicans. It’s the stupid voters.

Remember when republicans obstructed obama in 09? Did we vote them out in 10? Nope. The ignorant independents who showed up for obama didn’t show up. Then they didn’t show up for hillary.

So republicans were rewarded for their obstruction. No need to stop behaving badly. They got enough voters duped and enough Americans don’t show up.

So blame the American voter and bad citizens who don’t vote.

Don’t expect the middle class to grow under republicans. They only benefit the rich. The rest of you are idiots voting gop.

Now if you voted democratic enough times the republicans would be forced to change. Now they and I know they never have to change. The American people are officially stupid

Yes, the media absolutely is "liberal." I put that in quotes because they are not liberal in the classical sense of the word. Don't you get it by now, the powers-that-be (who own the media) are globalists/ limousine liberals. And both parties are corrupt/sold out, so in my opinion voting just encourages them.

 

[sealybobo]

The media is not liberal. When 7 corporations own 80% of the media, we’re all being duped. It’s true the democrats are almost just as corrupt as the gop but that’s because that’s the corrupt system we have. But it’s not their fault or republicans. It’s the stupid voters.

Remember when republicans obstructed obama in 09? Did we vote them out in 10? Nope. The ignorant independents who showed up for obama didn’t show up. Then they didn’t show up for hillary.

So republicans were rewarded for their obstruction. No need to stop behaving badly. They got enough voters duped and enough Americans don’t show up.

So blame the American voter and bad citizens who don’t vote.

Don’t expect the middle class to grow under republicans. They only benefit the rich. The rest of you are idiots voting gop.

Now if you voted democratic enough times the republicans would be forced to change. Now they and I know they never have to change. The American people are officially stupid

Yes, the media absolutely is "liberal." I put that in quotes because they are not liberal in the classical sense of the word. Don't you get it by now, the powers-that-be (who own the media) are globalists/ limousine liberals. And both parties are corrupt/sold out, so in my opinion voting just encourages them.

Then don’t call them liberals. Call them globalists and the rich. They don’t care about the middle class and cnn doesn’t speak for me. MSNBC does but not enough. Even they aren’t as liberal as fox is conservative

 

[sealybobo]

Reminds me of how conservatives want to call rich white guys like Harvey Weinstein and less moonvees liberals. Ha!

 

[Natural Citizen]

That was also my line of reasoning during the election.
Before Trump announced I had vowed to vote neither party as at the time we were setting for a pathetic rehash of Clinton and Bush. Been there, done that.

Trump's election was absolutely a backlash to the Washington establishment. People were tired of it. No doubt. He'll definitely get a lot more Independent votes in the 2020, too. People who were on the fence in th 2016 and maybe voted third party.

The establishment definitely had the cards stacked for another Bush/Clinton side show. That made me sick to even think about.

It's kind of a bonus to see the mainstream media put under the lens for a change, too. He's hilarious when he trolls em.

 

[petro]

That was also my line of reasoning during the election.
Before Trump announced I had vowed to vote neither party as at the time we were setting for a pathetic rehash of Clinton and Bush. Been there, done that.

Trump's election was absolutely a backlash to the Washington establishment. People were tired of it. No doubt. He'll definitely get a lot more Independent votes in the 2020, too. People who were on the fence in th 2016 and maybe voted third party.

The establishment definitely had the cards stacked for another Bush/Clinton side show. That made me sick to even think about.

It's kind of a bonus to see the mainstream media put under the lens for a change, too. He's hilarious when he trolls em.

The trolling of the media is priceless. In MN we had Jesse Ventura as governor for a time. The fight with the media was identical. He called them jackals.
As an independent, he reduced DNR fees on recreational vehicles, returned excess revenue to the taxpayers, repealed the vehicle emmisions testing and was open to more mining in the Mesabi Iron Range critical to the economy of the northern towns and a major supplier of taconite worldwide.

He was insulted and fought by both parties and the press. Guess that sums up why he turned into a conspiracy nut afterwards. As a governor he had my respect.

Trump may be an ass, but in a sense both parties and an environment of zealotry helped foster him. While many find his outspoken personality offensive, I felt it was needed in the cesspool of DC.
What is tiring is the broadbrushing by partisans that paint folks like me as Republican. I have many disagreements with their policies, but my differences are even further from the DFL.


Good thread.
Nice to take a break from my usual trolling of those zealots.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump may be an ass, but in a sense both parties and an environment of zealotry helped foster him.

I've thought all along that he's a symptom. Look at our society, culture, politics: Love him, hate him, or something in between, he's in many ways a reflection of where we are right now.
.