Inconvnient Truth Re Obama Deficit Plan: Country Has Shortage Of Millionaires

[highway234]

The progressive tax system is based on envy, the “resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage.” … the modern U.S. tax code was imposed in response to so-called progressives agitating against the natural inequality in wealth distribution. Basing public policy on envy teaches people to nurture their natural tendency toward this vice, instead of to resist and rise above it. It encourages everyone to think himself a victim and perpetuates resentment because there will always be something to envy.

CBS’ Bob Schieffer, Class Warrior: Hey, I know. Let’s Soak the Rich! - Big Journalism

I fail to see the advantage of soaking the working and middle classes. I wonder why this author has chosen to speculate about the mindset of "progressives," given that this is something about which he knows little. enjoy some facts about the amazing wealth disparity in the US from known commie rag "Business Insider" magazine.

Wealth And Inequality In America

I have yet to understand why middle- and working-class conservatives continue to want to pick up the tax slack for the very wealthy. I'm guessing no one on this site is a millionaire, because millionaires get to use their money to influence politics and wouldn't waste their time trying to change minds on a message board. And yet these middle class conservatives continue to insist that they, as well as the rest of us, should pay the taxes of the affluent so they won't have to. I find it inexplicable. Do conservatives even have a sense of self-preservation?

 

[Oldstyle]

And if you took every dime that those 32 billionaires possess it wouldn't come close to paying for the unfunded entitlements we're going to be liable for over the next 20 years. What part of that, don't you progressives "get"?

yeah, and if you took every dime the lower 50% of americans own, it wouldn't come close to paying for the two unfunded wars bush shoved down our throats. what's your point? why are you so bent on paying the affluent's share of taxes for them?

My point is the same as it's always been. The Federal Government is like a pail with huge gashes in it's sides and bottom that are leaking water faster than we can fill it up. Progressives like you want to take water from another pail (the Private Sector) that doesn't have a leak trying to keep your big government pail full. It isn't going to work.

My point is we need to replace the leaky pail with one that doesn't leak. We need to cut waste and inefficiency from government. We need to reform entitlements. Instead of doing that you are demanding that we pour ALL the water from the Private Sector pail in order to keep some water in your government pail. Only a fool couldn't see what that will lead to.

 

[Wiseacre]

The data shows one thing clearly, when the market tanks it is the rich guys that lose the most wealth, just as when it goes up they make the most money. Nothing surprising about it, they have the most money invested, so of course they are the ones most affected as far as income and wealth are concerned.

But notice the unemployment relationship - when the rich guys take a hit over a prolonged period such as the last few years due to the effects of recession, everybody else also takes a hit. Again, just as when the good times roll and the rich guys get big profits, so do the rest of us prosper with more jobs at the same time.

The question becomes can we limit the big profits and still keep the creation of more jobs? Don't see how you can do that by somehow limiting how much money somebody makes, so the left wants to raise taxes and take it away from the rich guys after they've earned it. Which incentivizes them to find ways to avoid paying those extra taxes by taking various actions that are counter productive to our economic growth. And that is why conservatives oppose tax hikes, not because they want to make the rich richer but instead because they want more jobs for everybody else that economic growth brings.


PS: Obama has never had a deficit plan. Other than raise taxes, not sure that qualifies as a plan.

 

[highway234]

And if you took every dime that those 32 billionaires possess it wouldn't come close to paying for the unfunded entitlements we're going to be liable for over the next 20 years. What part of that, don't you progressives "get"?

yeah, and if you took every dime the lower 50% of americans own, it wouldn't come close to paying for the two unfunded wars bush shoved down our throats. what's your point? why are you so bent on paying the affluent's share of taxes for them?

My point is the same as it's always been. The Federal Government is like a pail with huge gashes in it's sides and bottom that are leaking water faster than we can fill it up. Progressives like you want to take water from another pail (the Private Sector) that doesn't have a leak trying to keep your big government pail full. It isn't going to work.

My point is we need to replace the leaky pail with one that doesn't leak. We need to cut waste and inefficiency from government. We need to reform entitlements. Instead of doing that you are demanding that we pour ALL the water from the Private Sector pail in order to keep some water in your government pail. Only a fool couldn't see what that will lead to.

cutting government waste is a separate question from generating tax revenue. you want to cut government waste? start with defense. we bleed out more into "defense" than something like the next 20 countries combined, and we're going to go the way of the old USSR if we keep it up. cutting "entitlements" basically amounts to shifting yet more of the burden to the working and middle classes, since we've been paying into those programs our entire lives, and now the government wants to steal that money by cutting or privatizing our retirements. forget that. you've probably been paying into social security your entire life, too. i've got no idea why you're so eager to kiss that money goodbye just so exxon-mobil and warren buffett can continue to get by with paying criminally low taxes.

i don't know if you've noticed, but giving foot massages to the extremely affluent, the way we've been doing since reagan, hasn't worked to create jobs. they just move their jobs off shore and pour their cash into speculative investments that blow up the economy. this bromide that the affluent create jobs is bunk. demand creates jobs. put money into the pockets of the middle class, they spend it, and that's good for business.

 

[chanel]

Small businesses create jobs. Many small business owners are wealthy.

I don't know much about economics but I do understand human nature. A doctor, electrician, or a computer guy makes a million dollars this year in profits. He can;
A. Buy a yacht
B. Reinvest in his business and hire more people
C. Hoard the cash until Obamacare is repealed and we have a more business friendly guy in the WH.

I reckon most of those "millionaires" are doing "C". Is it any of our business? No. But what would entice them to do "B"? The "soak the rich" mantra isn't the smartest tactic IMHO.

I understand that lowering taxes may not create jobs. But I am certain that raising them will not either. Quite a conundrum.

As papa used to say, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

 

[highway234]

Small businesses create jobs. Many small business owners are wealthy.

not as many as you'd think.

How Much Money do Small Business Owners Make?

the article gets a bit lost in the weeds but the upshot is that the average small business owner makes about 100K per year. that's a decent income, but it's middle class to upper middle.

As papa used to say, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

the right wing's supplicating, submissive attitude vis-a-vis the rich makes me feel embarrassed for conservatives sometimes. they talk about self-reliance and yet they seem to feel they owe their very existence to the kind benevolence of the ultra-wealthy. when really, small business owners are largely middle-class people just like us. the "hand that's feeding you" is just like your own.

 

[BDBoop]

tell me how the right is going to balence our budget by going after the poor for the money?

There is NO shortage of poor people in America anymore but you wont get much blood out of those turnips.

They own so little here that squeeze them all you want, all you will get is a trickle

You still have a trickle!? How did you get a trickle?? I want a trickle!!

 

[editec]

412 = "tons"?

sure does. more than any other country in a world by an order of magnitude.

maybe you didn't see, i'm talking about billionaires, not millioniares. billion, with a B.

when us libs talk about income disparity and the rich getting a free ride in this country, we were never alleging that there were a lot of rich people in america. if there were, that would be a good thing. there are actually very few rich people in america, but they have hoarded an obscene amount of wealth. the fact that the number of millionaires in america is declining isn't surprising. there are fewer, but the ones that remain have an enormous and growing share of the nation's wealth. that's a trend that will probably continue.

I did a few google searches, didn't find any. Can you find any individual that has a yearly net income of over $1b?

One manager, John Paulson , made $3.7 billion last year. He reaped that bounty, probably the richest in Wall Street history, by betting against certain mortgages and complex financial products that held them.

The hedge fund managers James H. Simons and George Soros each earned almost $3 billion last year, according to an annual ranking of top hedge fund earners by Institutional Investor’s Alpha magazine, which comes out Wednesday.

Philip Falcone, who founded Harbinger Partners with $25 million in June 2001, cast a winning bet against the mortgage market. He pulled in returns of 117 percent after fees in 2007 and made $1.7 billion.

Source

 

[Sallow]

Once again for the mathematically challenged members of the board?

We need to reform entitlements. The way they are presently constituted will have our yearly deficits at 300% of GDP in twenty years. Now you can try and ignore that situation. Progressives can attack anyone who proposes reforms, accusing them of wanting to eliminate Medicare or Social Security. But to what end? Those programs will become insolvent. At some point nobody will loan us the money to pay for them. Not reforming them will end up further downgrading our credit rating. We can only print so many dollars before our currency starts to become worthless.

THAT is the "inconvenient truth" that Obama and his fellow progressives refuse to confront. Instead they've chosen to play the "class envy card" hoping that will get him reelected. It's a short sighted strategy that makes America weaker and weaker with each passing month.

Here's an idea.

Remove the 106.8K cap from SSI.

 

[Sallow]

Small businesses create jobs. Many small business owners are wealthy.

not as many as you'd think.

How Much Money do Small Business Owners Make?

the article gets a bit lost in the weeds but the upshot is that the average small business owner makes about 100K per year. that's a decent income, but it's middle class to upper middle.

As papa used to say, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

the right wing's supplicating, submissive attitude vis-a-vis the rich makes me feel embarrassed for conservatives sometimes. they talk about self-reliance and yet they seem to feel they owe their very existence to the kind benevolence of the ultra-wealthy. when really, small business owners are largely middle-class people just like us. the "hand that's feeding you" is just like your own.

Not in NYC.

 

[flacaltenn]

i don't know how many millionaires there are in the US, but there are TONS of billionaires, and the number's constantly going up.

List of countries by the number of US dollar billionaires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're joking right? 412 is NOT "tons".

Let's play with some tortured statistics here. If the claim is made that the number of Billionaires in the US increased by 10% during the Bush years --- how many people in this entire country are we talking about?

Or how about tarring and feathering a Billionaire and splitting the wealth with 150Mil other tax filers? Let's say she's worth $4Bill.Each taxpayer gets $26.67 --- about the cost of family meal at MickeyD's..

You think tax policy and govt planning ought to rely primarily on 400 tax filers?? I'm glad there's a couple hundred billionaires around. And they have done NOTHING to steal anything from me..

 

[highway234]

i don't know how many millionaires there are in the US, but there are TONS of billionaires, and the number's constantly going up.

List of countries by the number of US dollar billionaires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're joking right? 412 is NOT "tons".

Let's play with some tortured statistics here. If the claim is made that the number of Billionaires in the US increased by 10% during the Bush years --- how many people in this entire country are we talking about?

Or how about tarring and feathering a Billionaire and splitting the wealth with 150Mil other tax filers? Let's say she's worth $4Bill.Each taxpayer gets $26.67 --- about the cost of family meal at MickeyD's..

You think tax policy and govt planning ought to rely primarily on 400 tax filers?? I'm glad there's a couple hundred billionaires around. And they have done NOTHING to steal anything from me..

i'm not suggesting tarring and feathering anyone. i'm not suggesting we "soak the rich." i'm not suggesting we seize anyone's entire fortune. i m suggesting we end the bush tax cuts. that's all. you guys crack me up.

 

[flacaltenn]

i don't know how many millionaires there are in the US, but there are TONS of billionaires, and the number's constantly going up.

List of countries by the number of US dollar billionaires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're joking right? 412 is NOT "tons".

Let's play with some tortured statistics here. If the claim is made that the number of Billionaires in the US increased by 10% during the Bush years --- how many people in this entire country are we talking about?

Or how about tarring and feathering a Billionaire and splitting the wealth with 150Mil other tax filers? Let's say she's worth $4Bill.Each taxpayer gets $26.67 --- about the cost of family meal at MickeyD's..

You think tax policy and govt planning ought to rely primarily on 400 tax filers?? I'm glad there's a couple hundred billionaires around. And they have done NOTHING to steal anything from me..

i'm not suggesting tarring and feathering anyone. i'm not suggesting we "soak the rich." i'm not suggesting we seize anyone's entire fortune. i m suggesting we end the bush tax cuts. that's all. you guys crack me up.

ALL the bush tax cuts? Or just the upper brackets? And you do realize that raising the upper brackets doesn't affect interest/dividend/investment income don't you? So that you will not see much of an effect at all on BILLIONAIRES because any "salary" or "wage" income they draw is miniscule.

So you're using the WRONG DAM TOOL to even "tickle" a billionaire into submission..

That's why we're so tired of these class warfare threads. Because the class warriors aren't taking the time to UNDERSTAND the problems or how to really address them. It just amounts to a whole lot of useless whining..

Glad we crack you tho'.. Saves us all a bunch on free prescription depression meds for you leftists.

 

[asterism]

i don't know how many millionaires there are in the US, but there are TONS of billionaires, and the number's constantly going up.

List of countries by the number of US dollar billionaires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're joking right? 412 is NOT "tons".

Let's play with some tortured statistics here. If the claim is made that the number of Billionaires in the US increased by 10% during the Bush years --- how many people in this entire country are we talking about?

Or how about tarring and feathering a Billionaire and splitting the wealth with 150Mil other tax filers? Let's say she's worth $4Bill.Each taxpayer gets $26.67 --- about the cost of family meal at MickeyD's..

You think tax policy and govt planning ought to rely primarily on 400 tax filers?? I'm glad there's a couple hundred billionaires around. And they have done NOTHING to steal anything from me..

i'm not suggesting tarring and feathering anyone. i'm not suggesting we "soak the rich." i'm not suggesting we seize anyone's entire fortune. i m suggesting we end the bush tax cuts. that's all. you guys crack me up.

Raise the cost of doing business is a growth strategy for you?

 

[asterism]

i don't know if you've noticed, but giving foot massages to the extremely affluent, the way we've been doing since reagan, hasn't worked to create jobs. they just move their jobs off shore and pour their cash into speculative investments that blow up the economy. this bromide that the affluent create jobs is bunk. demand creates jobs. put money into the pockets of the middle class, they spend it, and that's good for business.

Where does the money that you want to put in the pockets of the middle class come from?

 

[highway234]

You're joking right? 412 is NOT "tons".

Let's play with some tortured statistics here. If the claim is made that the number of Billionaires in the US increased by 10% during the Bush years --- how many people in this entire country are we talking about?

Or how about tarring and feathering a Billionaire and splitting the wealth with 150Mil other tax filers? Let's say she's worth $4Bill.Each taxpayer gets $26.67 --- about the cost of family meal at MickeyD's..

You think tax policy and govt planning ought to rely primarily on 400 tax filers?? I'm glad there's a couple hundred billionaires around. And they have done NOTHING to steal anything from me..

i'm not suggesting tarring and feathering anyone. i'm not suggesting we "soak the rich." i'm not suggesting we seize anyone's entire fortune. i m suggesting we end the bush tax cuts. that's all. you guys crack me up.

Raise the cost of doing business is a growth strategy for you?

suppressing demand by shifting the tax burden from offshore corporations and money hoarders onto middle- and working-class families is definitely NOT a growth strategy.

 

[highway234]

ALL the bush tax cuts? Or just the upper brackets?

all of them, in my opinion the bush tax cuts were a terrible idea from the get-go.

And you do realize that raising the upper brackets doesn't affect interest/dividend/investment income don't you? So that you will not see much of an effect at all on BILLIONAIRES because any "salary" or "wage" income they draw is miniscule.

wrong again, bob.

Five myths about the Bush tax cuts

The cuts lowered tax rates across the board on income, dividends and capital gains;

 

[flacaltenn]

i don't know if you've noticed, but giving foot massages to the extremely affluent, the way we've been doing since reagan, hasn't worked to create jobs. they just move their jobs off shore and pour their cash into speculative investments that blow up the economy. this bromide that the affluent create jobs is bunk. demand creates jobs. put money into the pockets of the middle class, they spend it, and that's good for business.

Where does the money that you want to put in the pockets of the middle class come from?

The "highwayman" does not realize how the world has changed. Stimulating DEMAND does not beef up jobs anymore because most of our discretionary spending hard goods are manufactured by foreigners. USED to work -- doesn't anymore. The only way to build back up the job loss is to spur NEW innovation. And THAT does not come from DEMAND stimulation. It comes from encouraging capital to flow into high tech investment and the creation of new industries.

Take a breathe -- look at the situation closely.. Because the macroeconomic rules have changed..

 

[highway234]

i don't know if you've noticed, but giving foot massages to the extremely affluent, the way we've been doing since reagan, hasn't worked to create jobs. they just move their jobs off shore and pour their cash into speculative investments that blow up the economy. this bromide that the affluent create jobs is bunk. demand creates jobs. put money into the pockets of the middle class, they spend it, and that's good for business.

Where does the money that you want to put in the pockets of the middle class come from?

their wages and salaries.

 

[flacaltenn]

ALL the bush tax cuts? Or just the upper brackets?

all of them, in my opinion the bush tax cuts were a terrible idea from the get-go.

And you do realize that raising the upper brackets doesn't affect interest/dividend/investment income don't you? So that you will not see much of an effect at all on BILLIONAIRES because any "salary" or "wage" income they draw is miniscule.

wrong again, bob.

Five myths about the Bush tax cuts

The cuts lowered tax rates across the board on income, dividends and capital gains;

Damn -- this is tiring.. The article says NOTHING -- NADA -- ZILCH that contradicts my statement above. Revenue estimates for the top bracket increase have NOTHING to do with Billionaires.. They derive almost NOTHING from wages or salary..

Ask your hero Warren Buffett. He TOLD you he pays capital gains tax and NOT income tax. YOU ARE USING THE WRONG DAMN TOOL TO PUNISH BILLIONAIRES.!!!

In fact, you will EXTEND the gap between rich and poor as the BILLIONAIRES like Warren just giggle about the top salary brackets being raised. But his Berkshire Hathaway fund will get 10,000 new investors looking for the same investment income that HE uses for income.