Income tax's dedutions per taxpayers and dependents

[Supposn]

The income tax considerations per person were originally enacted to provide some tax relief for lower income earners; we can’t get blood from stones.

Unfortunately the consideration is a per capita amount of deduction from taxable income rather than a credit applied to the income tax itself.

Due to income tax’s progressive rates, the current per capita considerations grant exceedingly greater the amounts of benefits to wealthier taxpayers. Middle income earners derive much lesser benefits and the lowest income taxpayers derive little or no benefits from the per-capita tax consideration.

I’m a populist that advocates the deduction should be a tax credit rather than a deduction from taxable income. The amount of per-capita tax credit should be revenue neutral to our current regulations and that amount should be annually cost of living adjusted.

This revenue neutral tax modification grants greater tax relief to lower income tax payers without increasing our tax rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

 

[editec]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

Do they?

That's news to most of them, I expect.

 

[code1211]

The income tax considerations per person were originally enacted to provide some tax relief for lower income earners; we can’t get blood from stones.

Unfortunately the consideration is a per capita amount of deduction from taxable income rather than a credit applied to the income tax itself.

Due to income tax’s progressive rates, the current per capita considerations grant exceedingly greater the amounts of benefits to wealthier taxpayers. Middle income earners derive much lesser benefits and the lowest income taxpayers derive little or no benefits from the per-capita tax consideration.

I’m a populist that advocates the deduction should be a tax credit rather than a deduction from taxable income. The amount of per-capita tax credit should be revenue neutral to our current regulations and that amount should be annually cost of living adjusted.
This revenue neutral tax modification grants greater tax relief to lower income tax payers without increasing our tax rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

I guess I'm not following your train of thought. Are you recomending that the poorer get money while richer pay money?

I'm of the mind that everyone should pay something even if that something is only a dollar.

I do agree with you and bank robbers that if you're looking to get money, you need to go to those places where the money is kept to get it. That said, though, everyone needs to pay something.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

Do they?

That's news to most of them, I expect.

Don't pay income taxes, I see.
No, most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid. Fact.

 

[30x90]

The U.S. tax code is ridiculous. 16,000 PAGES!
The politicians think the main purpose of a legislator is to extract more "revenue" from citizens.

If you go to the US Government Printing Office ( w ww.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.

Insanity.

 

[Neubarth]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens. The first Thirty Thousand dollars that an individual makes will be Tax Free. Everything after that needs to be taxed at fifty percent Federal. States may take the remainder but I strongly recommend that they only take seven or eight percent.

 

[editec]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens. The first Thirty Thousand dollars that an individual makes will be Tax Free. Everything after that needs to be taxed at fifty percent Federal. States may take the remainder but I strongly recommend that they only take seven or eight percent.

I don't think that's what our GOP libertarian Randian chums had in mind, Neu.

They were sort of hoping for a REDUCTION in the amount they pay.

Using your system we'd be oaying staggeringly larger sums as taxes.

And just curious...where'd you come up with the $37 K cut off?

 

[editec]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

Do they?

That's news to most of them, I expect.

Don't pay income taxes, I see.
No, most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid. Fact.

Would you be kind enough to document that amazing claim for us, Rabbid?

I think you've been misinformed.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do they?

That's news to most of them, I expect.

Don't pay income taxes, I see.
No, most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid. Fact.

Would you be kind enough to document that amazing claim for us, Rabbid?

I think you've been misinformed.

Sure
Earned income tax credit could pay off

 

[Pepe]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens. The first Thirty Thousand dollars that an individual makes will be Tax Free. Everything after that needs to be taxed at fifty percent Federal. States may take the remainder but I strongly recommend that they only take seven or eight percent.

I disagree.

A VAT and a greatly reduced IRS is what the Empire requires.

NO Personal Income Tax.

A VAT with a rate somewhere between 13% and 17% on all products except Prescription Drugs and those products produced for export.

Which would mean all Imports get taxed with the VAT exactly like our Trading Partners hit our exports with their VAT.

Even the playing field.

Reduce the paperwork on all Companies/Corporations.

Abolish all taxes on Corporations other than the VAT.

NO Taxes on Savings, ie; IRAs, 401k's.

Allow all Funds held by Corporations outside the US to be brought "onshore" with NO taxes on a "one time basis."

Too simple thus it will never happen.

 

[william the wie]

Tax law is supposed to be complicated to pay off contributors.

 

[Supposn]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

Rabbi, I probably quoted U.S. Senator Pat Moynihan to you before; “Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts”.

For a long time I’ve refrained from asking you a personal question. Were you ever the rabbi in the village of Chelm?

Just Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Code1211, the revenue neutral proposal would decrease the taxes of income tax payers with less than and increase the taxes of those with greater than the median adjusted gross income.

Because within this proposal all income taxpayers deduct the same amount per exemption from their income taxes, the lowest income earners gain proportion to their incomes a greater tax saving relative to their incomes and the amounts of tax increase for others are significantly less consequential.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Well, most lower income tax payers get more in refunds than they paid in taxes. So that would seem to blow your argument to hell.

Don't pay income taxes, I see.
No, most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid. Fact.

Would you be kind enough to document that amazing claim for us, Rabbid?

I think you've been misinformed.

Sure
Earned income tax credit could pay off

Rabbi, you were asked to justify this statement and you replied with a bank’s overview of the IRS earned income tax credit. What’s being contended is your word “MOST”. I certainly believe “some” but I strongly doubt if it’s a significant portion of all persons filing federal income tax returns. I question if the numbers and/or the amounts of checks distributed are of any real economic consequence to the nation.

Can you provide any creditable evidence or even an authoritative opinion that concurs with your statement?

Supposn

 

[Supposn]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens........

............. A VAT and a greatly reduced IRS is what the Empire requires. ..........
................ A VAT (which of course is waived for exports) ............. Which would mean all Imports get taxed with the VAT exactly like our Trading Partners hit our exports with their VAT.

Pepe & Neubarth, I advocate (to the greatest extent feasible) we transfer our federal revenue sources from income taxes to a general consumption tax.

Due to the inequities and tax loop holes of our current income taxes, middle incomes supposed advantage of lesser than high earners tax rates are more of a fable than a reality. If the consumption tax is waived for items that are a greater portion of lower income families’ total purchases, this additionally makes the consumption tax less regressive.

Other provisions outside of the consumption tax itself could be of greater benefit to lower income earners and thus additionally mitigate some of the consumption tax’s regressive nature. There are many economic advantages derived from a general consumption tax rather than an income tax. All boats rise in a generally good tide of economic improvement.

Even if we’re unable to shift our entire major revenue source, to the extent that we’re able to simultaneously and incrementally shift portions of income tax to a general consumption tax, we are less dependent upon income taxes.

Neubarth is not wrong. A major portion of our income taxes inequities, tax loop holes and complexity can be traced back and eventually are found to be directly or indirectly due to progressive tax rates. If there are any remaining income taxes, decreased dependency upon income taxes would better enable us to reform them.

I’m also a proponent of the value added tax, (i.e. VAT method of sales tax administration. This sales tax method never additionally taxes the VAT levied within a prior sales transaction, is less susceptible to tax evasion, and is less detrimental to enterprises’ cash flow which is of critical concern to most small enterprises.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Pepe, to any extent that we retain income taxes, we must retain both individuals and corporate income taxes of a similar rate. Otherwise entrepreneurs will arrange their affairs as to show no personal income and they’ll live very well on their expense accounts which will not be accounted for.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[editec]

Don't pay income taxes, I see.
No, most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid. Fact.

Would you be kind enough to document that amazing claim for us, Rabbid?

I think you've been misinformed.

Sure
Earned income tax credit could pay off

That does not support your claim that

most working people get more back in tax refund than they paid

Do you have any IRS data supporting that claim?

 

[editec]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens. The first Thirty Thousand dollars that an individual makes will be Tax Free. Everything after that needs to be taxed at fifty percent Federal. States may take the remainder but I strongly recommend that they only take seven or eight percent.

I disagree.

A VAT and a greatly reduced IRS is what the Empire requires.

NO Personal Income Tax.

A VAT with a rate somewhere between 13% and 17% on all products except Prescription Drugs and those products produced for export.

Which would mean all Imports get taxed with the VAT exactly like our Trading Partners hit our exports with their VAT.

Even the playing field.

Reduce the paperwork on all Companies/Corporations.

Abolish all taxes on Corporations other than the VAT.

NO Taxes on Savings, ie; IRAs, 401k's.

Allow all Funds held by Corporations outside the US to be brought "onshore" with NO taxes on a "one time basis."

Too simple thus it will never happen.

Congrats on offering the very BEST justification for a VAT tax system that I can think of.

Of course a VAT tax could be imposed ONLY on imports, too.

And personally, I think that's the direction we ought to go as it regards our trade imbalance.

As to solving our tex problems?

I think the solution is to make it more progressive rather than flatter.

Somebody making $250 K ought NOT to be paying the same rate of taxes as somebody making $25,000,000....but they are!

The major flaw of our tax system is that it punishes the UPPER MIDDLE CLASS (which I think inclues even people making a million a year) and forces them to pay a much too high rate so that they will make up the lost revenues that the SUPERRICH are not paying.

 

[The Rabbi]

We need to urgently go to a Flat Tax on the citizens. The first Thirty Thousand dollars that an individual makes will be Tax Free. Everything after that needs to be taxed at fifty percent Federal. States may take the remainder but I strongly recommend that they only take seven or eight percent.

I disagree.

A VAT and a greatly reduced IRS is what the Empire requires.

NO Personal Income Tax.

A VAT with a rate somewhere between 13% and 17% on all products except Prescription Drugs and those products produced for export.

Which would mean all Imports get taxed with the VAT exactly like our Trading Partners hit our exports with their VAT.

Even the playing field.

Reduce the paperwork on all Companies/Corporations.

Abolish all taxes on Corporations other than the VAT.

NO Taxes on Savings, ie; IRAs, 401k's.

Allow all Funds held by Corporations outside the US to be brought "onshore" with NO taxes on a "one time basis."

Too simple thus it will never happen.

Congrats on offering the very BEST justification for a VAT tax system that I can think of.

Of course a VAT tax could be imposed ONLY on imports, too.

And personally, I think that's the direction we ought to go as it regards our trade imbalance.

As to solving our tex problems?

I think the solution is to make it more progressive rather than flatter.

Somebody making $250 K ought NOT to be paying the same rate of taxes as somebody making $25,000,000....but they are!

The major flaw of our tax system is that it punishes the UPPER MIDDLE CLASS (which I think inclues even people making a million a year) and forces them to pay a much too high rate so that they will make up the lost revenues that the SUPERRICH are not paying.

I am frankly happy that we have fora like USMB for ignorant people like yourself to spew their stupidity into cyberspace. IN the old days you might have actyally accomplished something. And that would be terrible.
Throwing up tariffs to "solve" a non existent problem will only lead to a worse economy. Ask Mr Smoot and Mr Hawley if you think otherwise.
Making our tax system "more progressive" will lead to even greater tax avoidance by the most productive members of society. The truth is the only fair way is a flat tax. Why should someone earning $250M pay a greater percentage than someone earning 25k? There is no reason other than class envy.
And a VAT will be a disaster, as companies spend time and money figuring out how to game the system rather than selling more product.