In the reference of supporting Israel...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Iridescence, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. Iridescence
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    So, Smurf slings aside (as so few get them AND understand they are revealing...)

    Does supporting and/or not supporting Israel mean that one does or does not support the Jewish community(ies)? To me they are not at all the same thing, but I am (again) a political novice...

    Also, I am still a bit (majorly) confused about the semitism vs antisemitism because from what I have read from other sources (books -- not google) some Jews by lineage became antisemitic. This is why I started the topic about the Jews divided that seemed to flap my idiocies like a flag in the wind.

    Semitism/antisemitism does not seem to refer at all to the support of Israel as not all Jews (obviously not YET) are Israelis.

    I DO NOT LIKE being a twit and I dislike it even more that I have not yet been able to connect these dots.

    I will not be able to make an 'informed' decision regarding what kind of government I would put in office and I don't understand how anyone else could if these basic things are not better understood by anyone else than they are by me ATM.
     
  2. Ringel05
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    Ringel05 Diamond Member

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    You musta missed the sticky at the top of the sub forum....... :eusa_whistle:
     
  3. Iridescence
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    Obviously, I must *have*. :dunno:
     
  4. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    Read the sticky? I never knew it was there! (I just work from the most active page)

    Support for Israel statements is not about the Jewish community. There aren't enough of them to make a real difference, except in Florida. The few places else that they are a substantial minority are so blue anyway that it makes no difference, and Jews have been voting 90% democratic since the days of Grover Cleveland and they aren't going to change now.

    Where it does matter is in the "Reagan Democrat" demographic. Evangelical, skilled private sector union, veterans or in former military households. This is a swing demographic in that they are very conservative on defense issues, but very liberal on economic issues. It is also a very rapidly shrinking demographic.

    Anyway, Evangelicals are more pro Israel than Jews are anyway. Jews live in a boolean universe where public morals are concerned, and are generally pretty harsh about the methods Israel feels compelled to use in its defense. Evangelicals are generally more pragmatic.

    Anyway, Evangelicals have the book of Revelations and feel that the Return of Israel and the reconstruction of the temple are necessary precursors to the end times and the holy kingdom. American Jews find this highly disturbing, but Israel is again pretty pragmatic about its tools.

    Also Israel is a democracy. Not a pretty democracy. An economic right wing party in Israeli terms is still pretty far left in American terms. But they have regular elections, a free press and freedom of assembly and respect for civil rights. Arabs in Israel have a lot more rights than Arabs anywhere else. Arabs in Israel do better than Catholics in Northern Ireland.

    Israel has been a very good ally and a good friend. Not that there haven't been problems. Some people here are still going on about a blue on blue attack on a US warship off the cost of Sinai during the 67 war. Israel's national narrative is that no other nation will protect them or treat them fairly. This tends to make them suspicious and slightly paranoid in their relations with other countries. Their relations with France and Russia have proven the wisdom of this course. Anyway, most of the time, when we need something from Israel, they deliver. They are our most reliable ally with the exception of Australia.

    So, for the folks who are really big on national defense, being good buds with Israel is important. For the folks who feel it is a national imperative to treat our friends with respect treating Israel with respect is important. For the evangelical crowd (who make up the largest subset of the population) Israel is important as a religious symbol.

    So when a presidential candidate panders to Israel he is not pandering to a inky dinky itsy bitsy little minority, he is pandering to a volatile and very lage collection of folks he has to have in order to win.
     
  5. Iridescence
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    There are issues that, perhaps like the American Jewish communities, I do potentially have with Israeli manipulations. However, I do not fully understand every angle and I am not a proactive researcher on the matters at hand. It does make things more confusing to me that there is such a cry for separation of 'religion' and government, yet on so many levels that is completely inconceivable and seemingly unlikely if not impossible on most levels.
     
  6. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    Every ethnic group has its hobbyhorses. The latins are big on immigration issues. The Irish have their thing over Ireland. In a multi ethnic state each group has its agenda.

    Jews are a part of it, but so is every other group. It isn't just Jewish manipulation. And in terms of political manipulation by a minority religious bunch of wacky wonders, CAIR is a lot more menacing. The money comes from overseas and is a lot more overt.
     

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