In Support of Obama's Health Care Law

[PoliticalChic]

I am definitely a supporter of Obama's Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) - h t t p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act

However, health care does not need to be reshaped and it amazes me to see how complicated the bill is. All they could have done was this: Effective immediately: Expand Medicaid eligibility; all individuals with income up to 133% of the poverty line qualify for coverage, including adults without dependent children. Just one statement.

And yes, this is in alignment with Franklin Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights:

The Second Bill of Rights was a list of rights proposed by Franklin D. Roosevelt, the then President of the United States, during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944. In his address Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:

Employment, with a living wage,
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies,
Housing,
Medical care,
Education, and,
Social security

h t t p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

Have you read “Why Obamacare Is Wrong For America,” by Turner, Capretta, Miller and Moffit?

No?

How about the following:

1.Obamacare will collect more than $500 billion in new taxes and take $575 billion from Medicare over the next ten years.

a. Two new entitlements, plus a big Medicaid expansion, are created to reduce the number of uninsured, at a cost of at least $2.3 trillion- that’s TRILLION- over the first ten years of full implementation.

2. With each passing year new taxes will be imposed. As disclosed on the attached chart from the
California Hospital Association:

• 2011: A 2.5% excise tax is imposed on pharmaceuticals. (This is part of the plan to pay for the
reform law.) This cost – which will be in the billions of dollars - will be passed on to health care
providers, primarily hospitals, who already operate with very thin margins, and will be under
great financial pressure to raise their rates to pay for it, with resulting price pressure on health
insurance premiums.
• 2012: That excise tax increases to 3%.
• 2013: A separate 2.9% excise tax on medical devices will begin. The same pass-through will take
place, creating the same pressures on providers and on insurance premiums.
• 2014: An $8 billion fee on health insurance premiums kicks in. Obviously consumers will bear
this tax and their premiums will rise.
Because of all these costs, Obamacare is generally unsustainable. Here is one study that addresses that
issue:
Obamacare: The Real Price Tag is a Moving Target

3. As is usual for liberal-progressives, the element of coercion is an intrinsic ‘twin’ to their intentions, and it remains so in Obamacare. Beginning in 2014, everyone will face a penalty if they don’t purchase a health policy that meets the government’s definition of a ‘minimum essential’ level of health coverage. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Public Law 111-148, Section 1501.

a. It will be enforced by the IRS. Obamacare authorizes the hiring of 16,500 additional agents. “the Joint Economic Committee and the House Ways & Means Committee minority staff estimates up to 16,500 new IRS personnel will be needed to collect, examine and audit new tax information mandated on families and small businesses in the ‘reconciliation’ bill being taken up by the U.S. House of Representatives this weekend. ...” 16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare | J.P. Freire | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

So, if you intend to remain a suppoorter of Obamacare, be sure to remain ignorant of its implications.

Okay, I will.

More lives will be saved for the uninsured at the expense of those with lots of money.

Of course, your current post is almost as facetious as the original. But I’m proud of you! Not only are you a fool, but you have the energy to let everyone know it!

1. As you have stated, I expect that you will be true to your word, and remain ignorant.

2. There is no basis on which "More lives will be saved..." as Obamacare neither increases the numbers of healthcare providers, nor can it accomplish its missions by rationing that care which is now available.

As usual from an Obamacare supporter, observations sans supporting evidence.

 

[PoliticalChic]

From chapter two of Peter Ferrara's "America's Ticking Bankruptc Bomb,"

When the President rushed through Obamacare, he promised it would reduce the deficit, citing CBO’s scoring! Of course, he never revealed, as was done in the 2010 Annual Report of the Medicare Board of Trustees and the 2010 Financial Report of the United States Government, that Obamacare policies will cut payments for doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers by $15 trillion.


So...you think any of the above will continue to stick around?

Yes, the government will have no choice but to take care of its people. If they don't, there would be mass riots and crime. People will do what they have to do to survive.

Also there's a great book by Damon Vickers called "The Day After the Dollar Crashes"

Perhaps only a collapse is necessary for a brand new global economic and social system to occur. This is predicted from numerous people both on the Right and on the Left and all others from Ron Paul, Gerald Celente, Marc Faber, Zeitgeist experts, Peter Schiff, etc.

Yes, indeed...so this is one of those threads.

One must, in a certain percent of the cases, find that what seems to be a serious, interesting topic has been parroted and posted by Bongo the Chimp.

One of those 'Gee, I wish we could.....whatever a three-year-old desires" or "can't we all just get along" theads....

Here we are again.

Absolutely the same level of understanding of healthcare, economics or human nature: zero.

I mention a text that deal with the healthcare debate, and Bongo comes back with Damon Vickers' "The Day After the Dollar Crashes".....Buddhism and the usual Left-wing warmist propaganda.

I can almost believe that you invented stupidity, Bongo- rather than just perfected it.

 

[serenesam]

Of course, your current post is almost as facetious as the original. But I’m proud of you!

Thank you very much. I most humbly accept you being proud of me.

Not only are you a fool, but you have the energy to let everyone know it!

You got that right!

1. As you have stated, I expect that you will be true to your word, and remain ignorant.

2. There is no basis on which "More lives will be saved..." as Obamacare neither increases the numbers of healthcare providers, nor can it accomplish its missions by rationing that care which is now available.

It's called common sense in which you seem to lack. Think about it. A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment. Now that he/she is insured, he/she can be more healthy. Duh, no brainer.

As usual from an Obamacare supporter, observations sans supporting evidence.

Evidence can always be distorted whether it be from the Right or from the Left. It's called propaganda.

 

[serenesam]

Yes, indeed...so this is one of those threads.

One must, in a certain percent of the cases, find that what seems to be a serious, interesting topic has been parroted and posted by Bongo the Chimp.

One of those 'Gee, I wish we could.....whatever a three-year-old desires" or "can't we all just get along" theads....

Here we are again.

Absolutely the same level of understanding of healthcare, economics or human nature: zero.

I mention a text that deal with the healthcare debate, and Bongo comes back with Damon Vickers' "The Day After the Dollar Crashes".....Buddhism and the usual Left-wing warmist propaganda.

I can almost believe that you invented stupidity, Bongo- rather than just perfected it.

Well I suppose then that you are God and know everything. Right.

 

[Chris]

Obama's healthcare plan is the same plan the Republicans introduced in the early 1990's.

Now the Republican Party has moved so far to the right, that they are against their own plan!

Personally I would prefer a system like the French have that is a combination of public and private insurance. Their plan is more fair and cheaper than ours.

You can read about it at this link....

The French Lesson In Health Care

 

[serenesam]

Obama's healthcare plan is the same plan the Republicans introduced in the early 1990's.

Now the Republican Party has moved so far to the right, that they are against their own plan!

Personally I would prefer a system like the French have that is a combination of public and private insurance. Their plan is more fair and cheaper than ours.

You can read about it at this link....

The French Lesson In Health Care

Gotta love the documentary "Sicko" by Michael Moore!

 

[Chris]

Obama's healthcare plan is the same plan the Republicans introduced in the early 1990's.

Now the Republican Party has moved so far to the right, that they are against their own plan!

Personally I would prefer a system like the French have that is a combination of public and private insurance. Their plan is more fair and cheaper than ours.

You can read about it at this link....

The French Lesson In Health Care

Gotta love the documentary "Sicko" by Michael Moore!

I haven't seen it.

But what the French do is a combination of conservative and liberal ideas.

And it works.

 

[serenesam]

Obama's healthcare plan is the same plan the Republicans introduced in the early 1990's.

Now the Republican Party has moved so far to the right, that they are against their own plan!

Personally I would prefer a system like the French have that is a combination of public and private insurance. Their plan is more fair and cheaper than ours.

You can read about it at this link....

The French Lesson In Health Care

Gotta love the documentary "Sicko" by Michael Moore!

I haven't seen it.

But what the French do is a combination of conservative and liberal ideas.

And it works.

Yes, if only we can get that kind of cooperation here in the USA.....

You should definitely see the documentary, it is a good one to watch.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course, your current post is almost as facetious as the original. But I’m proud of you!

Thank you very much. I most humbly accept you being proud of me.

Not only are you a fool, but you have the energy to let everyone know it!

You got that right!

1. As you have stated, I expect that you will be true to your word, and remain ignorant.

2. There is no basis on which "More lives will be saved..." as Obamacare neither increases the numbers of healthcare providers, nor can it accomplish its missions by rationing that care which is now available.

It's called common sense in which you seem to lack. Think about it. A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment. Now that he/she is insured, he/she can be more healthy. Duh, no brainer.

As usual from an Obamacare supporter, observations sans supporting evidence.

Evidence can always be distorted whether it be from the Right or from the Left. It's called propaganda.

Bongo, it has become painfully evident that you have no problem having strong opinions based on zero knowledge, and questionable verisimilitude.

Example: "A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment..."

Let's remember that we are discussing Obamacare...your choice...and that implies the United States: there has always been 'medical treatment' for every single person in the nation, legal or illegal, citizen or visitor.

Certainly even one with your level of skills has heard about ER's and hospitals, which, by law treat all comers.


Does that neon light flashing IDIOT over your head keep you awake at night?

 

[Chris]

Of course, your current post is almost as facetious as the original. But I’m proud of you!

Thank you very much. I most humbly accept you being proud of me.



You got that right!



It's called common sense in which you seem to lack. Think about it. A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment. Now that he/she is insured, he/she can be more healthy. Duh, no brainer.

As usual from an Obamacare supporter, observations sans supporting evidence.

Evidence can always be distorted whether it be from the Right or from the Left. It's called propaganda.

Bongo, it has become painfully evident that you have no problem having strong opinions based on zero knowledge, and questionable verisimilitude.

Example: "A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment..."

Let's remember that we are discussing Obamacare...your choice...and that implies the United States: there has always been 'medical treatment' for every single person in the nation, legal or illegal, citizen or visitor.

Certainly even one with your level of skills has heard about ER's and hospitals, which, by law treat all comers.


Does that neon light flashing IDIOT over your head keep you awake at night?

So no one needs to buy insurance since they can just go to the emergency room.

Right?

 

[serenesam]

Bongo, it has become painfully evident that you have no problem having strong opinions based on zero knowledge,

By logic, it is impossible to have zero knowledge.

and questionable verisimilitude.

Example: "A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment..."

Let's remember that we are discussing Obamacare...your choice...and that implies the United States: there has always been 'medical treatment' for every single person in the nation, legal or illegal, citizen or visitor.

Certainly even one with your level of skills has heard about ER's and hospitals, which, by law treat all comers.

Of course, nobody would be stupid like you to have to point out the obvious. You lack the intelligence to comprehend that I was talking about cost hence, "affordable care act." Look up the word "affordable" in the online dictionary, I'm sure that will be of great help for you.

Does that neon light flashing IDIOT over your head keep you awake at night?

Stop drinking the fluoride. It makes you dull.

 

[serenesam]

Thank you very much. I most humbly accept you being proud of me.



You got that right!



It's called common sense in which you seem to lack. Think about it. A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment. Now that he/she is insured, he/she can be more healthy. Duh, no brainer.



Evidence can always be distorted whether it be from the Right or from the Left. It's called propaganda.

Bongo, it has become painfully evident that you have no problem having strong opinions based on zero knowledge, and questionable verisimilitude.

Example: "A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment..."

Let's remember that we are discussing Obamacare...your choice...and that implies the United States: there has always been 'medical treatment' for every single person in the nation, legal or illegal, citizen or visitor.

Certainly even one with your level of skills has heard about ER's and hospitals, which, by law treat all comers.


Does that neon light flashing IDIOT over your head keep you awake at night?

So no one needs to buy insurance since they can just go to the emergency room.

Right?

What happens (I know someone who is uninsured) is that they make you sign a paper saying you are responsible for the cost. A lot of people end up going into medical debt very easily. If you don't pay, it goes to collections and I'm sure the rest is self-explanatory.

 

[California Girl]

Obama's healthcare plan is the same plan the Republicans introduced in the early 1990's.

Now the Republican Party has moved so far to the right, that they are against their own plan!

Personally I would prefer a system like the French have that is a combination of public and private insurance. Their plan is more fair and cheaper than ours.

You can read about it at this link....

The French Lesson In Health Care

Gotta love the documentary "Sicko" by Michael Moore!

I haven't seen it.

But what the French do is a combination of conservative and liberal ideas.

And it works.

Yes, it does. And they have an impressive system..... which is bankrupting ordinary working people in France. I have seen their system, up close and personal. And, in fact, if Obama had come up with something similar, I'd have been very open to being persuaded to support it, despite the costs.... which are huge.... but possibly worth the investment to provide a decent system.

But please don't pretend the French have some perfect system.... it isn't.

Oh, and I think it was actually me who suggested the French system was one we should consider - long before you did.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Thank you very much. I most humbly accept you being proud of me.



You got that right!



It's called common sense in which you seem to lack. Think about it. A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment. Now that he/she is insured, he/she can be more healthy. Duh, no brainer.



Evidence can always be distorted whether it be from the Right or from the Left. It's called propaganda.

Bongo, it has become painfully evident that you have no problem having strong opinions based on zero knowledge, and questionable verisimilitude.

Example: "A person is uninsured and can't get medical treatment..."

Let's remember that we are discussing Obamacare...your choice...and that implies the United States: there has always been 'medical treatment' for every single person in the nation, legal or illegal, citizen or visitor.

Certainly even one with your level of skills has heard about ER's and hospitals, which, by law treat all comers.


Does that neon light flashing IDIOT over your head keep you awake at night?

So no one needs to buy insurance since they can just go to the emergency room.

Right?

I can understand why you'd want to change the subject....I suppose I might, as well, if my position were as jejune as yours...

1. Your doppelganger was wringing his little hands, claiming that those without medical insurance had no healthcare.
I disabused him of his erroneous misapprehension.
I understand that, due to his ....limitations....he will continue to advance the mistake, but am I to conclude that you, also, lack this understanding?

No? Good for you!

2. "So no one needs to buy insurance..."
These are your words, not mine.
But, in truth, until Obamacare kicks in, the words are true.

No one needs to buy medical insurance, based on the good old American view of freedom.
True?
Good.

3. Now, if you would like to ask the question this way: 'Should one have medical insurance?'
The response is based on the following constellation of factors.
a) one's age, medical condition, personal attitude about risk.
b) one's financial situation- at least until 2014, when incomes up to $88,000 will be subsidised.
c) none of your business.....at least until 2014.

Clear?

Next time, try to be more precise.

 

[old navy]

The PPACA was a bad piece of legislation that has has already had detrimental effects, and has not even been fully implemented. Health care costs have risen, physicians have started refusing Medicare patients, and corporations are dropping people from coverage. The health care delivered in this country is the best in the world. Hopefully it and the rest of the country will not be destroyed before January of 2013.

 

[serenesam]

The health care delivered in this country is the best in the world.

Funny how you can always find evidence for the opposite (just about everything besides politics):

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

http://blogs.forbes.com/aroy/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/

 

[old navy]

The health care delivered in this country is the best in the world.

Funny how you can always find evidence for the opposite (just about everything besides politics):

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Why Switzerland Has the World’s Best Health Care System - Avik Roy - The Apothecary - Forbes

I'm talking about the actual care. The quality of facilities, physicians, equipment and so on. Ranking U.S. health care with other countries is akin to comparing the U.S. education system. For example, not all people have access to Mayo, Hopkins, or the Cleveland Clinic, but the local health department is available or the ER or Doc in the Box. That of course raises equality red flags and causes a downgrage in quality of care measurements. In education, our numbers include tests taken by students that can hardly speak English and some who cannot. Yet, every year some very bright kids can't get into middle tier schools, let alone the top schools, due to the high number of well qualified applicants. So our schools are actually doing a lot better job than they (we) are getting credit for.

 

[serenesam]

The health care delivered in this country is the best in the world.

Funny how you can always find evidence for the opposite (just about everything besides politics):

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Why Switzerland Has the World’s Best Health Care System - Avik Roy - The Apothecary - Forbes

I'm talking about the actual care. The quality of facilities, physicians, equipment and so on. Ranking U.S. health care with other countries is akin to comparing the U.S. education system. For example, not all people have access to Mayo, Hopkins, or the Cleveland Clinic, but the local health department is available or the ER or Doc in the Box. That of course raises equality red flags and causes a downgrage in quality of care measurements. In education, our numbers include tests taken by students that can hardly speak English and some who cannot. Yet, every year some very bright kids can't get into middle tier schools, let alone the top schools, due to the high number of well qualified applicants. So our schools are actually doing a lot better job than they (we) are getting credit for.

Maybe for emergencies:

The U.S. has the best health care system in the world

 

[old navy]

Your link goes along with what I am saying. The level of poverty and poor choices people make contribute to the lower numbers the the US health care system has. The elements of the system are the best in the world though.

Also, the literature does not show that preventative programs help bring down the cost of health care or improve the numbers in the "best" in the world competition. That is due to the above mentioned poor choices, poverty, generational obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.

 

[serenesam]

Your link goes along with what I am saying. The level of poverty and poor choices people make contribute to the lower numbers the the US health care system has. The elements of the system are the best in the world though.

Also, the literature does not show that preventative programs help bring down the cost of health care or improve the numbers in the "best" in the world competition. That is due to the above mentioned poor choices, poverty, generational obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.

And that is why everyone deserves access to the best care possible.