In Search Of A Constitutional Definition For Islam

[Deleted member 61768]

Quite the contrary according to the Federalist Papers Our founding Fathers felt that Christianity was a foundation necessity for the very survival of the United Sates! Have you not studied American History, the Federalist Papers and the connection of Christianity to the founding of the United States?

i have. I didn't say I thought it incompatible. Your claim was that one could not serve two masters: the Constitution and one's religion. Many Christians would say Jesus first, then the Constitution.

Jesus himself said give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto G_d what is G_d's. I for one think I can differentiate the difference having walked that path firsthand for the last 67 years and having served in the U.S. Army from 1971-1973 in Air Defense and again in the only.Texas National Guard U.S. Army Airborne Infantry Unit in the United States.

And you have never encountered nor heard of Christians who thought that Jesus should come first? Especially in Texas?

People are people and they are not always right. I have met many who call themselves "Christians" who have no real consept of the meaning of the word just like there are Muslims in name only. That is the way of the world. If you can do better lead by example!

Talking is easy leading by example if hard. Justifying bad behavior by pointing out others bad behavior is a copout and you know it. Hypocrites are a dime a dozen and Washington D.C. is full of them. They talk out both sides of their mouths and lean toward what ever side the wind blows. When trials comes like it has to Christians in the Middle East and they are being crucified, beheaded, sold into sex slavery and burned alive; could you stand as strong as most of them have or would you recant your faith? Talk is cheap the Christians in the Middle East know what suffering is and yet the Obama Administration refused to allow them into the United States. Where was his "Christian Fruit" for by their fruit you will know them? Obama showed his fruit for only one side and yet no one has ever held him accountable for it!!! WHY?

 

[Flanders]

The Colonial Americans set forth Freedom of Religion not freedom from religion.

To Paparock: Freedom FROM religion is exactly what they had in mind. They sure as hell meant freedom from Islam, or do you believe that freedom of religion only applies to Christianity?

Freedom FROM religion was the objective. In practical terms FREEDOM FROM PRIESTHOODS was the desired results. Not one of the Founding Fathers would be considered a constitutional expert in an academy where countless liberals are the experts. Try to imagine Jefferson, or Madison, arguing a case before judges like Ruth Ginsburg who would abandon the Constitution altogether. Nevertheless, Jefferson’s reasoning on religion and the public purse is faultless:​

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To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

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In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

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History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. Thomas Jefferson --Letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813​

Bottom line: Thomas Jefferson clearly wanted to separate priesthoods from the public purse permanently when he coined the phrase “. . . a wall of separation between Church & State.” in a letter:

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net​

XXXXX​

There is no doubt the Founders intended an impenetrable wall separating church from the public purse. In addition to the Founding Fathers everybody in Colonial America wanted freedom of religion, but nobody wanted public funds going to somebody else’s religion. The question then becomes: What was the wall separating church & state made of in colonial times? The answer is obvious: A closed public purse.

A Passive Monument?​

FREEDOM FROM RELIGION IS BUILT INTO THE FIRST AMENDMENT. This is the only question Was it put there intentionally? YES is my answer.

You really should study and read the actual documents and the actual history; not talking points as I have..

To Paparock: You are wasting your time pushing your organized religion talking points on me. Find another thread if you want to thump on the Bible:

The first 16 words in the First Amendment were designed to prevent any one religion dominating the others. No other country has, or ever had, such a powerful guard against the evils of human nature. In short: There will always be a legion of fools and parasites who believe that a benign totalitarian government is possible.

Jesus himself said give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto G_d what is G_d's. I for one think I can differentiate the difference having walked that path firsthand for the last 67 years and having served in the U.S. Army from 1971-1973 in Air Defense and again in the only.Texas National Guard U.S. Army Airborne Infantry Unit in the United States.

To Paparock: See #3 permalink in this thread:

Emphasis Is The New Game In Town

 

[Deleted member 61768]

The Colonial Americans set forth Freedom of Religion not freedom from religion.

To Paparock: Freedom FROM religion is exactly what they had in mind. They sure as hell meant freedom from Islam, or do you believe that freedom of religion only applies to Christianity?

Freedom FROM religion was the objective. In practical terms FREEDOM FROM PRIESTHOODS was the desired results. Not one of the Founding Fathers would be considered a constitutional expert in an academy where countless liberals are the experts. Try to imagine Jefferson, or Madison, arguing a case before judges like Ruth Ginsburg who would abandon the Constitution altogether. Nevertheless, Jefferson’s reasoning on religion and the public purse is faultless:​

XXXXX​

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

XXXXX​

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

XXXXX​

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. Thomas Jefferson --Letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813​

Bottom line: Thomas Jefferson clearly wanted to separate priesthoods from the public purse permanently when he coined the phrase “. . . a wall of separation between Church & State.” in a letter:

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net​

XXXXX​

There is no doubt the Founders intended an impenetrable wall separating church from the public purse. In addition to the Founding Fathers everybody in Colonial America wanted freedom of religion, but nobody wanted public funds going to somebody else’s religion. The question then becomes: What was the wall separating church & state made of in colonial times? The answer is obvious: A closed public purse.

A Passive Monument?​

FREEDOM FROM RELIGION IS BUILT INTO THE FIRST AMENDMENT. This is the only question Was it put there intentionally? YES is my answer.

You really should study and read the actual documents and the actual history; not talking points as I have..

To Paparock: You are wasting your time pushing your organized religion talking points on me. Find another thread if you want to thump on the Bible:

The first 16 words in the First Amendment were designed to prevent any one religion dominating the others. No other country has, or ever had, such a powerful guard against the evils of human nature. In short: There will always be a legion of fools and parasites who believe that a benign totalitarian government is possible.

Jesus himself said give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto G_d what is G_d's. I for one think I can differentiate the difference having walked that path firsthand for the last 67 years and having served in the U.S. Army from 1971-1973 in Air Defense and again in the only.Texas National Guard U.S. Army Airborne Infantry Unit in the United States.

To Paparock: See #3 permalink in this thread:

Emphasis Is The New Game In Town

You make me laugh! You seem to be a very paranoid individual. I state my own beliefs and you are free to state your own. You seem to feel threatened by what I believe. Too bad, so sad, grow up as I am not PUSHING anything but quoting scripture and stating my opinion. The Constitution guarantees there will be no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof nowhere does it say there is a guarantee from religion. If otherwise then quote it here chapter and verse!

 

[Flanders]

You make me laugh!

To Paparock: And you make me sick. I cannot count the number of Bible-thumpers that found my threads in 17 years. Live and let live is the only thing I ever wanted from Bible-thumpers, while you and your kind are all the same. You all preach the same sermon to infidels:

infidel (noun)

1. An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.

2. One who has no religious beliefs.

3. One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle: an infidel to the prohibitionist cause.​

NOTE: The definition of infidel is why:

Americans must defeat Islam as a matter of self-defense, but they must not do it for Christianity, Communism/Socialism, democracy, and certainly not for global government.

Maybe This Democrat Will Tell Me How​

The thing that makes me is sick is the way every dirty little moralist is convinced their blinding wisdom can convert infidels. The fact is that I do not give a shit what you believe. Hoffer surely had you in mind when he wrote in The True Believer:

The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready he is to claim all excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause. Eric Hoffer

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A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding, When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business. Eric Hoffer​

nowhere does it say there is a guarantee from religion. If otherwise then quote it here chapter and verse!

To Paparock: You are not that clever. Obviously, you do not know that Madison and Jefferson would never have included freedom from religion in their constitution for obvious reasons. Their caution proved accurate when the XVI Amendment gave priesthoods keys to the public purse.

My own proof of FREEDOM FROM RELIGION is in my previous response.

Now you quote chapter and verse that says everybody must belong to an organized religion. If you cannot do it at least tell me why you believe the Constitution says —— or even implies —— that everybody must belong to an organized religion.

 

[Deleted member 61768]

You seem to be suffering from what is known as "projection". I am a proud "infidel" myself and in fact I am a Christian Zionist that supports Israel against many so called Christians that know very little about about the Foundations of Christianity or its relationship to Judaism.

You have me confused with someone else as I state by beliefs but you are more than free to your own. Disagree with me all you want as I don't care. If your feelings are hurt I will play two tiny twin violins for you playing "my heart bleeds for you" for a few seconds. Radical Muslims are slaughtering Christians in Syria and Iraq along with Yazidis, atheists, and fellow Muslims who refuse to follow their edicts and your feelings are hurt, oh boo hoo. Cry me a river because you can't prove your point! Facts are facts and history is history even if it is NOT what you want to hear or face! GROW UP! I used to be a moderator for an Israel Military Website and I have heard all this crying so many times and I am not Jewish. I did train with both Israeli and Syrian military officers while I was on active duty in the U.S. Army. I came to respect the Israeli's and despise the Syrians due to their actions not just their words. Life teaches you things if you are open to learn them. I don't know how old you are but you seem very closed to learning.

Thomas Jefferson established the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps to fight the Muslim Marauders on the Barbary Coast so learn all your American History!

 

[Flanders]

I am a proud "infidel" myself and in fact I am a Christian Zionist that supports Israel against many so called Christians that know very little about about the Foundations of Christianity or its relationship to Judaism.

To Paparock: You believe in religion. Tell me something I do not know. Try believing in God.

Basically, religious fanatics hate alien religious fanatics more than they hate atheists.

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Incidentally, people who believe in God, but not religion, do not give a rat’s ass what others believe.​

Emphasis Is The New Game In Town

I don't know how old you are but you seem very closed to learning.

To Paparock: Old enough to prefer making my own mistakes.

Thomas Jefferson established the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps to fight the Muslim Marauders on the Barbary Coast so learn all your American History!

To Paparock: Research my messages before you presume to teach me anything:

“It was Jefferson who fought the first war on terror,” said Barton. “Jefferson never believed [Islam] was a religion of peace. He did not believe we should fight terrorism by drawing back from it but by confronting it. Exactly the opposite of what we do today.”​

Historian: Thomas Jefferson was pro-religion
Posted By -NO AUTHOR- On 01/18/2016 @ 10:20 pm

Historian: Thomas Jefferson was pro-religion​

Be clear on one thing. Priests make the decisions for every religion. President Jefferson had no more trust for Islam’s clerics than he had for the priesthood in his own country. Whatever funds T. J. gave to Christian churches was not paid in tribute. This time the war against Islam might end differently.

Bottom line: Two centuries after the Barbary Coast War, the United Nations made Islam’s clerics strong enough to demand ——— and get —— tribute.​

Paying Tribute For The United Nations

 

[Deleted member 61768]

Wrong again Flanders I do not believe in religion but quite the opposite! So many of the organized religious groups be it the Catholic Church, or many others especially in Europe took part in the greatest slaughter of mankind under the Nazis refusing to stand up against their brutal regime and even before that practiced a "kill a Jew and save your soul" philosophy. I believe in seeking G_d and establishing a personal relationship with Him and I have. I don't depend on what anyone tells me about G_d's word as I am studied enough to do my own research both in the Greek and Hebrew. I also have enough life experience and education in the fields of psychology and sociology to understand a lot of what and how men are motivated and manipulated from my years in universities. I chose to withdraw from society in general read and study only to interact with with those I trust and those I thought I could help. It has not been an easy path to follow and most likely not the wisest. I lost my faith in my country and in its leaders ability to faithfully and justly administer its laws and their oaths due to what I experienced in the U.S. Army. I understand all too well what it means to be jaded and trying to overcome that view when you can't trust anyone until they prove to you they are trustworthy because you have been betrayed so many times by so many people in positions on authority.

 

[Flanders]

Wrong again Flanders I do not believe in religion but quite the opposite!

To Paparock:Based on everything you said in this thread I suggest you analyze your responses from an unbiased perspective.

 

[Deleted member 61768]

Wrong again Flanders I do not believe in religion but quite the opposite!

To Paparock:Based on everything you said in this thread I suggest you analyze your responses from an unbiased perspective.

Oh, I have many many times over the years. I have had a few very close friends over the years but they are all dead now. Maybe I will find another soon G_d willing. The last one was eating breakfast and when his wife came back into the kitchen he was dead face down in his cereal bowl. I miss him. Good friends are hard to find.

 

[Flanders]

Roberts turned out badly. He, and he alone, could have stopped the ACA.

Only a fool believes the High Court is now conservative let alone in the hands of strict constitutionalists:

John Roberts Quietly Bows To Gay Marriage Ruling
Kevin Daley
Legal Affairs Reporter
10:18 PM 06/30/2017

John Roberts Quietly Bows To Gay Marriage Ruling​

How many more issues will make Roberts vote with the FIVE liberals?

1. Ginsburg

2. Sotomayor.

3. Kagan.

4. Breyer.

5. Kennedy.