In other words, hyper-violence trumps freedom of speech…

And whenever you are offended, say by a flag burner or someone submerging a crucifix in a jar of urine, what is your reaction? Do you see these offenses as standing up to arm twisting bullies and holding truth above fear?

Would your defense of the long established foundations of western culture be as passionate then?

Or is it wiser not to offend and wrap yourself in a twisted view of patriotism?

Unless you can point to him advocating violence and terror it doesn't matter if he calls it sticking up to bullies or righteous anger. The problem is not the offensive action, it is the reaction to it.
I disagree. The problem is the offensive action. Every culture can be offended. Offending that culture is not a constructive thing but destructive.

Continually offending other cultures is not something enshrined in the constitution. It is something all humanity must come to grips with and try their level best to stop.

And Islam happens to be the ONLY culture that has a problem with making violent threats and violent actions when offended.

BTW, it is impossible not to offend someone unless everyone is of like mind.
 





Last week we saw a Florida Pastor – with 30 members in his church – threaten to burn Korans which lead to riots and killings in Afghanistan. We also saw Democrats and Republicans alike assume that Pastor Jones had a Constitutional right to burn those Korans. But Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer told me on “GMA” that he’s not prepared to conclude that — in the internet age — the First Amendment condones Koran burning.
“Holmes said it doesn’t mean you can shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater,” Breyer told me. “Well, what is it? Why? Because people will be trampled to death. And what is the crowded theater today? What is the being trampled to death?”
Rest here>>>

So Breyer would definitely uphold the right to burn the American flag because other Americans don't threaten to riot, torch, commit mayhem and murder if you do -so go for it and burn the flag and Supreme Court justice Breyer will be right there trumpeting your right to do so.

But if another group threatens to act like a pack of 7th century backward mindless, manipulated and moronic barbarians -then you lose your right to make a statement by the burning of whatever object they don't want burned and THEIR right to threaten you into "submission" supersedes your 1st amendment rights.

We have WAY too many sitting on the Supreme Court that just cannot be trusted to protect our rights. That doesn't mean I think that guy should have even threatened to burn Korans and it doesn't mean I think he should have gone through with it. But the statement he intended by that act is no less a form of protected speech under the 1st Amendment as it is for the guy who wants to make a statement with the burning of the American flag. What would Breyer's response be if those opposed to seeing the American flag burned started threatening riots, mayhem and murder if someone burns an American flag? Breyer might as well lay down and bare his throat for the barbarians -he has already pretty much said he is willing to scrap the Constitution for those ready to blackmail us with threats of violence if we insist on exercising our Constitutional rights in a way THEY have decided we cannot be allowed to do. THEY do not have ANY input on what rights I do and do not have or how I choose to exercise them - and Breyer is an asshole for even thinking what foreign barbarians like or don't like or what acts of violence they threaten in response has a damn thing to do with it.
 
You righties are so afraid, it's pathetic.

I am not afraid. I am just observing America swallow the lie.

It is those seeking to appease Islam that are afraid of it. Why else would you cower at the thought that offending Muslims might cause them to murder us.

If we annihilated all the Jihadist babies that threatened murder around the world there would be no need for appeasement and fear.

If a bear is going to kill you do you feed it your lunch hoping that it will eat you last or do you pump a couple of rounds into him?
 
There is a difference between fear and respect. It is disrespectul to burn a Koran that is a guide for millions. It is not a terrorist bible. It is a bible that terrorists use to justify their ideology, which is a false and inconsistent ideology. That terrorism is able to be justified by some using the Koran seems to lead others to believe that the religion as a whole is fundamentally flawed, but the same is done by Christians, and I don't care the scale to which the hypocrisy is committed, the fact is, is that it is blatant hypocrisy. Commandment: Thou shalt not kill. This applies to Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam, and yet members of all three commit murder in defense of their ideology. Yes, fundamentalist Islamists killed three thousand people on 9/11. You could say the Iraq was a more indirect extension of the Christian beliefs held by George Bush to 'evangelize' our American way of life. That is a little loose, but I think it holds.

But, to be practical, there is definitely a fear of being attacked, and I admit that. I live in New York City, and so does my brother. I don't want to get attacked because some asshole wants to disrespect the whole of Islam as a way to simply stoke the fire without making anything better. By that measure, we should entice the terrorists as much as possible. We should draw cartoosn of Muhammed and post them on every lampost in America and publish it on the front of the Time magazine, which would surely incite massive terrorist retaliation. Why not do that? Why stop at Koran burning? why not simply do these things to prove that we are not afraid, and suffer the consequences? Would these be a statement to simply say "I am tough. I am not afraid." In reality, it is out of fear of being seen as being afraid or weak, and is an egoic manifestation.

More perplexing still, is that, it being our goal to quell and diminish terrorism, part of our efforts should be aimed at minimizing any reason that terrorists could use to attack, in other words, to attack terrorism on an ideological level, in the vein of Ghandi or Martin Luther King. Non-violence. To simply not be offensive. To stop playing the aggressor, but our desire to remain the tough guy to uphold this image of America as tough is ultimately going to be our downfall. We will be attached again. Many will die, and we will be able to do nothing about it that is actually constructive, because we are dealing with covert, independant terrorist cells, fueled by the free flow of information that allow the formation of the terrorist ideology, which can only be strenghtened by egoic acts such as burning Korans and attacking mosques. We are hurting ourselves by trying to act unafraid. It's like a guy in a parking lot, who simply to try to appear unafraid, won't back down from someone who clearly could hurt him, and ends up getting hurt because of his hubris. You can't fight fire with fire. It simply does not work. You get burned every fucking time. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Cleche, but true.
 
Further, I will posit without apology, that the reason the terrorists hate us, is because of our hubris, of our countless acts of violence around the world, or our invading countries, of our actions, which speak loudly to our belief that we are the greatest, and that is bullshit. We are an important country because contain democracy, but our hubris completely destroys the beauty of our country. I believe it is our fault, and the fault of our political predecssors for the attacks of 9/11. Until we are able to take some accountability for 9/11 instead of acting like hapless victims, we will continue to incite vioence against ourselves and spend countless dollars on homeland security simply to cancel out the hubris that brings us these terrorists threats. Again, it is our collective ego that makes them hate us. Many countries hate us for the same reason, they just don't carry a fundamentalist religious ideology fueled by extreme poverty and hopelessness that allows them to take violent action against innocent civilians. We are assholes. Our country has done haneous shit, and someone is calling us on it. Maybe we should listen, and shut the fuck up. I do not condone what they did, and I hate them more than anyone, but I do believe that our inability to accept any responsibility for our own actions is terrible. It has become unpatriotic to even hint at the possibilty that we did ANYTHING to incite hatred against us. This is naiive. I know people are going to hate me for having written this, but I believe this is the truth. It's terrible those people died. I had a friend in the world trade center. It's too bad they had to die for the arrogance of our past polticial leaders who transgressed against other countries. No one has been able to bite back, until now, and we are stunned? we are only strengthening terrorist ideology everyday and insuring that they will continually try to kill all of us, everyday. Why not look at the truth? Why hide your eyes under a veil to pretend things are different than they actually are? Admit your transgressions to yourself, admit your mistakes, and you can move on and learn. Otherwise, you continue to make the same mistakes.
 
The Koran was written by a terrorist: Mohammed.

End of story.

Mohammed was not a terrorist. He did some violent things which you may not understand since you do not fully understand the context in which it took place, and I grant that perhaps it is the accounts of his military campaigns that are cause enough for terrorists to justify their extremist ideology, and for that, anger may be justified, but with anger, you only need a little understanding. Dig deeper, or, simply look at the fact that most muslims are peace-loving people. The terrorists are mostly brainwashed people, and is more a reflection of their terrible living situation. Those people who are brainwashed into being terrorists, have NOTHING. They live in poverty, in a fucking dessert, bla bla bla... in so many circumstances, extremist ideologies provide an out for people in extreme circumstances. They provide a sense of purpose usually at a high cost: the cost of blood. If anything, it terrorism only speaks to the destitution of the people who adopt it, not to the ideology. If it were Christians, not Islamics who lived in that part of the world and in the same conditions and context, I guarantee they would find some passage in the bible to justify terrorism in the same vain, much the same as abortion doctors somehow bypass all of the jesus' teachings and the ten commandments to kill another human.
 
Further, I will posit without apology, that the reason the terrorists hate us, is because of our hubris, of our countless acts of violence around the world, or our invading countries, of our actions, which speak loudly to our belief that we are the greatest, and that is bullshit. We are an important country because contain democracy, but our hubris completely destroys the beauty of our country. I believe it is our fault, and the fault of our political predecssors for the attacks of 9/11. Until we are able to take some accountability for 9/11 instead of acting like hapless victims, we will continue to incite vioence against ourselves and spend countless dollars on homeland security simply to cancel out the hubris that brings us these terrorists threats. Again, it is our collective ego that makes them hate us. Many countries hate us for the same reason, they just don't carry a fundamentalist religious ideology fueled by extreme poverty and hopelessness that allows them to take violent action against innocent civilians. We are assholes. Our country has done haneous shit, and someone is calling us on it. Maybe we should listen, and shut the fuck up. I do not condone what they did, and I hate them more than anyone, but I do believe that our inability to accept any responsibility for our own actions is terrible. It has become unpatriotic to even hint at the possibilty that we did ANYTHING to incite hatred against us. This is naiive. I know people are going to hate me for having written this, but I believe this is the truth. It's terrible those people died. I had a friend in the world trade center. It's too bad they had to die for the arrogance of our past polticial leaders who transgressed against other countries. No one has been able to bite back, until now, and we are stunned? we are only strengthening terrorist ideology everyday and insuring that they will continually try to kill all of us, everyday. Why not look at the truth? Why hide your eyes under a veil to pretend things are different than they actually are? Admit your transgressions to yourself, admit your mistakes, and you can move on and learn. Otherwise, you continue to make the same mistakes.

There's a video on youtube in which Osama bin Laden says that 9/11 was retaliation for the US' actions in Palestine, namely, helping Israel militarily and financially.
 
There is a difference between fear and respect. It is disrespectul to burn a Koran that is a guide for millions. It is not a terrorist bible. It is a bible that terrorists use to justify their ideology, which is a false and inconsistent ideology. That terrorism is able to be justified by some using the Koran seems to lead others to believe that the religion as a whole is fundamentally flawed, but the same is done by Christians, and I don't care the scale to which the hypocrisy is committed, the fact is, is that it is blatant hypocrisy. Commandment: Thou shalt not kill. This applies to Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam, and yet members of all three commit murder in defense of their ideology. Yes, fundamentalist Islamists killed three thousand people on 9/11. You could say the Iraq was a more indirect extension of the Christian beliefs held by George Bush to 'evangelize' our American way of life. That is a little loose, but I think it holds.

But, to be practical, there is definitely a fear of being attacked, and I admit that. I live in New York City, and so does my brother. I don't want to get attacked because some asshole wants to disrespect the whole of Islam as a way to simply stoke the fire without making anything better. By that measure, we should entice the terrorists as much as possible. We should draw cartoosn of Muhammed and post them on every lampost in America and publish it on the front of the Time magazine, which would surely incite massive terrorist retaliation. Why not do that? Why stop at Koran burning? why not simply do these things to prove that we are not afraid, and suffer the consequences? Would these be a statement to simply say "I am tough. I am not afraid." In reality, it is out of fear of being seen as being afraid or weak, and is an egoic manifestation.

More perplexing still, is that, it being our goal to quell and diminish terrorism, part of our efforts should be aimed at minimizing any reason that terrorists could use to attack, in other words, to attack terrorism on an ideological level, in the vein of Ghandi or Martin Luther King. Non-violence. To simply not be offensive. To stop playing the aggressor, but our desire to remain the tough guy to uphold this image of America as tough is ultimately going to be our downfall. We will be attached again. Many will die, and we will be able to do nothing about it that is actually constructive, because we are dealing with covert, independant terrorist cells, fueled by the free flow of information that allow the formation of the terrorist ideology, which can only be strenghtened by egoic acts such as burning Korans and attacking mosques. We are hurting ourselves by trying to act unafraid. It's like a guy in a parking lot, who simply to try to appear unafraid, won't back down from someone who clearly could hurt him, and ends up getting hurt because of his hubris. You can't fight fire with fire. It simply does not work. You get burned every fucking time. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Cleche, but true.

Which is a greater disrespect? To burn a book as a political statement, or to kill someone who did not burn that book as a political statement because someone else talked about it? Your problem is that you have no common sense, if you did you would see that the problem here is not the people who disrespect others, it is the people who murder others.

If you are afraid because someone you have no control over is doing something, the answer is not to prevent the action that is angering those people you are afraid of, it is to teach the people you are afraid of to accept that violence is not an acceptable response to insults.

We do this by not backing down when they threaten us. We do this, if necessary, by doing exactly what you think is a bad idea. The idea behind everybody draw Muhammad was to give those radicals you are afraid of so many targets that they could not possibly intimidate everyone. The more people who speak up against this attitude, the easier it will be to drown out the voices of hatred and anger. It will also make it easier for those within Islam who oppose them, and claim it is a religion of peace, to prove their point.

Do you have any idea how many Muslims who speak out against radicalism end up dead? How many of them watch as their families pay the price for their courage?

We do not minimize the danger of terrorism by appeasing it, because that makes us look weak, and tells them that they won. Ghandi did not defeat the United Kingdom by backing down, he did by getting in their face and forcing them to see what they were doing. King was beaten, jailed, and murdered because he refused to accept the status quo. He challenged it, angered it, and defeated it.

We are not going to defeat the radicals by hiding, we are going to defeat them by challenging them, the same way Ghandi and King did. We have to get in their faces, insult them, and never back down. This is going to result in deaths and property damage, just like it did when Ghandi and King did it, but we have to continue the fight, because the alternative is unthinkable.

The only way to defeat them is to mock them. Taking them seriously, and allowing them to give up our freedoms, gives them the victory.

I find it ironic that you claim I am afraid because I am willing to challenge them, while simultaneously admitting your fear and desire to appease them.
 
Further, I will posit without apology, that the reason the terrorists hate us, is because of our hubris, of our countless acts of violence around the world, or our invading countries, of our actions, which speak loudly to our belief that we are the greatest, and that is bullshit. We are an important country because contain democracy, but our hubris completely destroys the beauty of our country. I believe it is our fault, and the fault of our political predecssors for the attacks of 9/11. Until we are able to take some accountability for 9/11 instead of acting like hapless victims, we will continue to incite vioence against ourselves and spend countless dollars on homeland security simply to cancel out the hubris that brings us these terrorists threats. Again, it is our collective ego that makes them hate us. Many countries hate us for the same reason, they just don't carry a fundamentalist religious ideology fueled by extreme poverty and hopelessness that allows them to take violent action against innocent civilians. We are assholes. Our country has done haneous shit, and someone is calling us on it. Maybe we should listen, and shut the fuck up. I do not condone what they did, and I hate them more than anyone, but I do believe that our inability to accept any responsibility for our own actions is terrible. It has become unpatriotic to even hint at the possibilty that we did ANYTHING to incite hatred against us. This is naiive. I know people are going to hate me for having written this, but I believe this is the truth. It's terrible those people died. I had a friend in the world trade center. It's too bad they had to die for the arrogance of our past polticial leaders who transgressed against other countries. No one has been able to bite back, until now, and we are stunned? we are only strengthening terrorist ideology everyday and insuring that they will continually try to kill all of us, everyday. Why not look at the truth? Why hide your eyes under a veil to pretend things are different than they actually are? Admit your transgressions to yourself, admit your mistakes, and you can move on and learn. Otherwise, you continue to make the same mistakes.

Posit away.

You are wrong. The reason they hate us is because we are not like them. They hate us because we allow our women to walk around free, make their own choices, and not be subject to their husbands.

The reason they hate us is because we refuse to follow laws that make religion more important than freedom.

They hate us because we set an example for the world that shows that anyone can make their lives better than they are.

To sum it up, they hate us because we are free.

Your rationalization that we are responsible for 9/11 shows that you, like many, have bought into the lie that the victim is wrong for being in the wrong place, saying the wrong thing, or dressing the wrong way. That is a lie, and always will be.
 

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