In Memory of Those Who Paid the Price

[Psychoblues]

Lemme clear this up. I've had a few minutes to think about it. DD Eisenhower was elected to get Americans out of Korea. He failed as we still occupy that country and the war has never to this day been undeclared. To this day our veterans now there receive an Expeditionary Medal that qualifies them for VFW membership if nothing else. Richard Nixon was elected because he promised to get American troops out of Viet Nam and he ultimately did so about 30,000 American lives and 6 years later and without any honor, pride or national remorse.

Don't get me wrong. I think that Eisenhower and Nixon (whom I voted for twice) were great presidents. Considering their actions, however, causes me great consternation and cynisism at this stage of my life. I now believe there were better options for which neither recognised or respected.

This ill advised and impossible war on Iraq is a gwb proposition and I somehow believe that it's ultimate disrepectful end will also be blamed somehow on the Democrats that warned of the perils and misquided approach before the invasion ever started.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Eisenhower only sent advisors. Learn some history please. LBJ sent 100's of thousands of Combat troops.

Eisenhower was NOT elected to "get us out" of Korea. But he did get us a Ceasefire. And using the excuses liberals use now a days, "we" weren't running the Korean War, check your facts, it was a UN approved war.

 

[Psychoblues]

You, rsg, are a liar but you already know that. Check your history. I was there and I know what it is and what it ain't. It ain't what you say it is.

Eisenhower only sent advisors. Learn some history please. LBJ sent 100's of thousands of Combat troops.

Eisenhower was NOT elected to "get us out" of Korea. But he did get us a Ceasefire. And using the excuses liberals use now a days, "we" weren't running the Korean War, check your facts, it was a UN approved war.

Eisenhower promised to end the war in Korea but it hasn't ended even yet. So much for Republican military prowness.

 

[Gunny]

You spout revisionist history, turdbreath rgs. The very Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower got us into that war, everybody that has ever read one page of the history of that conflict understands that.




Dwight couldn't get us out with any honor so he left the argument for the Demcrats to settle. Admittedly, the Dem's didn't do much better. Ultimately the very Republican Dick Nixon got us out as promised but with great dishonor and shame. Tsk, tsk. I don't know who to blame more for that
American catastrphy. DD Eisenhower or Dick Nixon? Which of them do you blame?

Incorrect. At the time Eisenhower left office, we had a handful of military advisors in Vietnam. Kennedy escalated the number of advisors, but it is also speculated he was considering pulling out. Johnson introduced the first US combat units in 1965 and turned the ground war into an American war.

 

[Gunny]

You, rsg, are a liar but you already know that. Check your history. I was there and I know what it is and what it ain't. It ain't what you say it is.




Eisenhower promised to end the war in Korea but it hasn't ended even yet. So much for Republican military prowness.

Eisenhower negotiated a cessation of hostilities with the warring factions. There has been no actual combat between North and South Korea since. The fact they have not negotiated a peace treaty between themselves has nothing to do with the President of the US.

 

[Psychoblues]

If you look as silly as your last 2 posts in this thread I would suggest you sideline as a circus clown.

Eisenhower negotiated a cessation of hostilities with the warring factions. There has been no actual combat between North and South Korea since. The fact they have not negotiated a peace treaty between themselves has nothing to do with the President of the US.

Eisenhower didn't start the Korean war but he had no idea how to end it either. Eisenhower started American involvement in Viet Nam and he didn't know how to end that either. As much as I love the presidency of DD Eisenhower I have to admit that he knew nothing about ancillary war tactics and peace negotiations. I call it a Republican sin and attitude of which you will undoubtedly excuse yourself from as well.

 

[Gunny]

If you look as silly as your last 2 posts in this thread I would suggest you sideline as a circus clown.




Eisenhower didn't start the Korean war but he had no idea how to end it either. Eisenhower started American involvement in Viet Nam and he didn't know how to end that either. As much as I love the presidency of DD Eisenhower I have to admit that he knew nothing about ancillary war tactics and peace negotiations. I call it a Republican sin and attitude of which you will undoubtedly excuse yourself from as well.

And I'd suggest you take a 6th grade history class.

It was not Eisenhower's responsibility to end the Korean War, nor was ending the US's involvement in Vietnam even a question since at the time he left office it was purely advisory. Kennedy and LBJ escalated that involvement and created a war for the US. Any stretch you are trying to make that Eisenhower was responsible for their subsequent actions after he left office is pure fantasy on your part.

You couldn't debate strategy and tactics with me if it was open book for you and closed book for me; therefore, no excuse needed with you.

 

[BrianH]

If you look as silly as your last 2 posts in this thread I would suggest you sideline as a circus clown.




Eisenhower didn't start the Korean war but he had no idea how to end it either. Eisenhower started American involvement in Viet Nam and he didn't know how to end that either. As much as I love the presidency of DD Eisenhower I have to admit that he knew nothing about ancillary war tactics and peace negotiations. I call it a Republican sin and attitude of which you will undoubtedly excuse yourself from as well.

Eisenhower didn't start American involvement in Vietnam...The U.S. was involved in Vietnam while Eisenhower was still Allied Commander in Europe.

U.S. officials stood at the ceremony in 1945 ---When Truman (Democrat) was president---when the Vietnamese established there independence from the French. Of course, we can trace the chain of events that led to our involvement, but it did not begin with Eisenhower.

Any history book will tell you that. Even a Vietnam history book.

 

[Diuretic]

How many American presidents declared war without first being attacked or as a response to a declaration of war on the United States by another party?

How many of those presidents were from the Democratic Party and how many from the Republican Party?

Where the declaration was made without first being attacked, what was the eventual disposition of that war?

How was that war terminated and by whom?

 

[Diuretic]

Eisenhower didn't start American involvement in Vietnam...The U.S. was involved in Vietnam while Eisenhower was still Allied Commander in Europe.

U.S. officials stood at the ceremony in 1945 ---When Truman (Democrat) was president---when the Vietnamese established there independence from the French. Of course, we can trace the chain of events that led to our involvement, but it did not begin with Eisenhower.

Any history book will tell you that. Even a Vietnam history book.

I seem to remember reading about Dien Bien Phu and the French forces. That was 1954. I would think US involvement was about then, in order to halt the Communist advance.

 

[CSM]

How many American presidents declared war without first being attacked or as a response to a declaration of war on the United States by another party?

How many of those presidents were from the Democratic Party and how many from the Republican Party?

Where the declaration was made without first being attacked, what was the eventual disposition of that war?

How was that war terminated and by whom?

If you think Bush is bad...check out Polk!

 

[BrianH]

Aside from the wars in which we were directly attacked, most of our wars stemmed from stories that we were attacked.

Mexican-American War: Stemmed from the U.S. annexation of Texas, Mexico considered it a rebel province. James K Polk was the president and he was Democrat.

Spanish-American war: The U.S.S. Maine was attacked.(There were other underlying factors-but this is what justified action) William McKinley was president and he was a Republican.

World War I: sinking of a "passanger-liner" Lusitania by a German U-boat.(as far as the history book says) The war was raging since 1914, but we hadn't gotten involved until this. Most Americans were Isolationist and followed the Monroe Doctrine. Woodrow Wilson was president and he was a Democrat.

World War II: We physically entered the war after being attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor. That was our entrance into the Pacific. As far as the European theater goes, we had been aiding the Allies by supplying arms to them, German U-boats were sinking our vessels. We got involved in 1941 when Hitler and Mussolini declared war in Dec. of 1941, and we responded the same. We began the war with Franklin D. Roosevelet (Democrat) and ended the war with Harry S. Truman (Democrat)

Korean War: started out as a war of its own, but was expanded by the U.S. and Russia as part of the Cold War. We were never attacked by Korea. Harry S. Truman (Democrat) was president when we got involved militarily in the Korean War, we "finished" (I only say this cause we're still there-not cause I'm bashing IKE) the war with Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican). He also sent advisors to Vietnam. (advisors)

Bay of Pigs: John F. Kennedy was president (Democrat). Using IKE's plan to overthrow the Fidel Castro ruled Cuba, Kennedy gave the go ahead for 1,500 highly trained cuban-exiles to invade Cuba, instigate an uprising, and overthrow Castro. There was a lack of communication between Kennedy and military officials and the operation failed. Kennedy ordered the invasion to take place without Air-support, a key factor in the failure. Kennedy then had to negotiate for the release of the remaining prisoners. We were never attacked.

Vietnam War: The U.S. never declared war on North Vietnam, it was regarded as a police action. (By the President and supporters). We had three presidents during this conflict-John F. Kennedy (Democrat) did not support the use of military force in Vietnam; however, he continued to send military advisors to Vietnam. The next president is Lyndon B. Johnson (Democrat)- Johnson used the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution to increase military and combat forces to Vietnam. He believed strongly in the Domino Theory --that communism would spread. The third president was Richard Nixon (Republican)...escalated the war in Vietnam, then proposed the Nixon Doctrine that was designed to begin pulling troops out of Vietnam and replacing them with Vietnamese troops. President Ford was president when the pull-out was finally completed.

There's alot more to the history of this stuff, but this is a start.

 

[BrianH]

I seem to remember reading about Dien Bien Phu and the French forces. That was 1954. I would think US involvement was about then, in order to halt the Communist advance.

What's funny, is that we were supporting the Vietmihn in 1945 and their declaration of Independence (naturally), however, when they began to battle the French, who were our larger ally, we kind of left them hanging and supported the French. Our advisers were not sent until Eisenhower's admin., however, our involvement in the conflict began in the 40s.

 

[BrianH]

If you think Bush is bad...check out Polk!

I could have misunderstood Diuretic's post, but I don't think he was bashing Bush on this particular post. I believe he was actually curious about the wars in the U.S. and how many were entered even though we were not attacked. And also what party the presidents were from.

I agree with you, but I'm not sure if that post was meant to bash Bush...if it was, then I ignore my post.

 

[CSM]

I could have misunderstood Diuretic's post, but I don't think he was bashing Bush on this particular post. I believe he was actually curious about the wars in the U.S. and how many were entered even though we were not attacked. And also what party the presidents were from.

I agree with you, but I'm not sure if that post was meant to bash Bush...if it was, then I ignore my post.

Sorry, did not mean to imply Diuretic was bashing Bush. The good thing about him is whenever he "bashes" anything, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that it has been bashed but good!

 

[CSM]

Aside from the wars in which we were directly attacked, most of our wars stemmed from stories that we were attacked.

Mexican-American War: Stemmed from the U.S. annexation of Texas, Mexico considered it a rebel province. James K Polk was the president and he was Democrat.

Spanish-American war: The U.S.S. Maine was attacked.(There were other underlying factors-but this is what justified action) William McKinley was president and he was a Republican.

World War I: sinking of a "passanger-liner" Lusitania by a German U-boat.(as far as the history book says) The war was raging since 1914, but we hadn't gotten involved until this. Most Americans were Isolationist and followed the Monroe Doctrine. Woodrow Wilson was president and he was a Democrat.

World War II: We physically entered the war after being attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor. That was our entrance into the Pacific. As far as the European theater goes, we had been aiding the Allies by supplying arms to them, German U-boats were sinking our vessels. We got involved in 1941 when Hitler and Mussolini declared war in Dec. of 1941, and we responded the same. We began the war with Franklin D. Roosevelet (Democrat) and ended the war with Harry S. Truman (Democrat)

Korean War: started out as a war of its own, but was expanded by the U.S. and Russia as part of the Cold War. We were never attacked by Korea. Harry S. Truman (Democrat) was president when we got involved militarily in the Korean War, we "finished" (I only say this cause we're still there-not cause I'm bashing IKE) the war with Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican). He also sent advisors to Vietnam. (advisors)

Bay of Pigs: John F. Kennedy was president (Democrat). Using IKE's plan to overthrow the Fidel Castro ruled Cuba, Kennedy gave the go ahead for 1,500 highly trained cuban-exiles to invade Cuba, instigate an uprising, and overthrow Castro. There was a lack of communication between Kennedy and military officials and the operation failed. Kennedy ordered the invasion to take place without Air-support, a key factor in the failure. Kennedy then had to negotiate for the release of the remaining prisoners. We were never attacked.

Vietnam War: The U.S. never declared war on North Vietnam, it was regarded as a police action. (By the President and supporters). We had three presidents during this conflict-John F. Kennedy (Democrat) did not support the use of military force in Vietnam; however, he continued to send military advisors to Vietnam. The next president is Lyndon B. Johnson (Democrat)- Johnson used the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution to increase military and combat forces to Vietnam. He believed strongly in the Domino Theory --that communism would spread. The third president was Richard Nixon (Republican)...escalated the war in Vietnam, then proposed the Nixon Doctrine that was designed to begin pulling troops out of Vietnam and replacing them with Vietnamese troops. President Ford was president when the pull-out was finally completed.

There's alot more to the history of this stuff, but this is a start.

With the exception of the War of 1812 and WWII (Pearl Harbor), I do not believe any of the conflicts in which the US has engaged was instigated by a direct attack on the US.

 

[BrianH]

Yeah I agree completely , I left the War of 1812 out because political parties have changed so much since then, and it really wouldn't matter who was president and if he was a D or R.

What's funny is that many of our conflicts/wars were based on supposed "attacks" on the U.S. (U.S.S. Maine, Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin). We'll never know the truth, but you're right, our homeland was never attacked.

 

[CSM]

Yeah I agree completely , I left the War of 1812 out because political parties have changed so much since then, and it really wouldn't matter who was president and if he was a D or R.

What's funny is that many of our conflicts/wars were based on supposed "attacks" on the U.S. (U.S.S. Maine, Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin). We'll never know the truth, but you're right, our homeland was never attacked.

I guess that makes the US "the Great Satan" after all!

 

[BrianH]

Who knows...it's hard to justify an argument supporting that or denying it. Because there is so much that we don't know. Even if you study history, there's alot that isn't there. No matter how much you read or dig for it, there's always something that we won't know.

 

[CSM]

Who knows...it's hard to justify an argument supporting that or denying it. Because there is so much that we don't know. Even if you study history, there's alot that isn't there. No matter how much you read or dig for it, there's always something that we won't know.

Agreed. If the undrelying premise of this discussion is that a country must be attacked before it can respond militarily, then the US does indeed score poorly. However, there are many reasons for a military response (yeah I know...*gasp* " neo con! warmongering) some of which are even justifiable.