Importance of insurance?

[Madeline]

Raw costs may go up, as better coverage obviously means more health care for more people, especially very ill people. One reason I think health care is no longer suitable for the private marketplace is because of the enormous rise in costs...of drugs, of experimental procedures, of pallative care for the morbidly ill, of fraud, etc.

In Florida, the parents of a birth-injured child have no right to sue. Instead, there is a recovery fund, with a cap on the damage award and a prohibition against punitive damages. Nonetheless, med mal in general has not declined in price, and Ob/Gyn med mal has not declined either. IMO, one reason for this is that Florida has rendered itself a haven for bad Ob/Gyns who no longer need fear suit.

 

[MaggieMae]

Have you ever been sued as a business owner? If you could pass legislation that limited the lawyers take to say 10% and place caps, you could drive down the cost of everything.....

Take a minute and find out what group spends more on campaign contributions than anyone else.....

I would have to check the official fact pages on campaign contributions, but I believe the US Chamber of Commerce tops them all. Wouldn't it be nice if their wide range of supporting contributors (thanks to the USSC decision) had the best interests of the working class in mind as they spend their millions campaigning for conservatives and lobbying against anything Democrats try to do, including getting people back to work.

Try Lawyers/Law Firms, #1 for 10 of the last 11 years......

Lawyers / Law Firms: Long-Term Contribution Trends | OpenSecrets

That doesn't show anything but the trend--as opposed to what other industry? If you link the "trend" to each interest group in the following link, that's also the only information you get. It doesn't show that lawyers were #1 against, say the health industry.

Interest Groups | OpenSecrets

 

[MaggieMae]

Have you ever been sued as a business owner? If you could pass legislation that limited the lawyers take to say 10% and place caps, you could drive down the cost of everything.....

Take a minute and find out what group spends more on campaign contributions than anyone else.....

I would have to check the official fact pages on campaign contributions, but I believe the US Chamber of Commerce tops them all. Wouldn't it be nice if their wide range of supporting contributors (thanks to the USSC decision) had the best interests of the working class in mind as they spend their millions campaigning for conservatives and lobbying against anything Democrats try to do, including getting people back to work.

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

Another one who apparently lives in the fantasy world of extremist wishful thinking.

There are literally millions of quieter conservative voices willing to compromise for the good of the nation's future but they get drowned out by you and people like Dude (oops, "Oddballs"). Democrats don't want to be totalitarians, and Obama doesn't want to be a dictator. Unfortunately, Republicans do and always have.

 

[MaggieMae]

I would have to check the official fact pages on campaign contributions, but I believe the US Chamber of Commerce tops them all. Wouldn't it be nice if their wide range of supporting contributors (thanks to the USSC decision) had the best interests of the working class in mind as they spend their millions campaigning for conservatives and lobbying against anything Democrats try to do, including getting people back to work.

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

GWV5903, this post of yours makes no fucking sense. If you want to drag Maggie off to the woodshed, you'll have to try harder.

A lot harder. Thanks. I'm always amused by factless rants. "I got nuthin' but I sure sound tough..."

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

GWV5903, this post of yours makes no fucking sense. If you want to drag Maggie off to the woodshed, you'll have to try harder.

It makes no sense to a Democrap, never has and probably never will, your included in that btw in case you couldn't understand that either....

The woodshed??? I thought is was pretty clear I threw her under the bus, but then again you're probably a Democrap.....

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

GWV5903, this post of yours makes no fucking sense. If you want to drag Maggie off to the woodshed, you'll have to try harder.

Does Maggie need your protection???

Madeline and I have butted heads on more than one occasion in plain view of everyone here.

 

[MaggieMae]

No argument here...Yet, state must-cover mandates blow that particular model to bits.

Costs are high because of too much gubmint interference, at all levels, not too little.

No, the bullshit is we let the Lawyers take us to the cleaners, until you have serious Tort Reform, we will never have a system that is even close to being good....

Health just is not a risk where the needs of the public can be reconciled with those of the profit-seeking insurance company, and a single payor system is better.

You reform the rules, you don't take it over.....

Just because you won't accept opposing points of view doesn't mean any of us plans to shut the fuck up. Ever. Deal with it or move on.

FAULTY DATA AND FALSE CONCLUSIONS
THE MYTH OF SKYROCKETING MEDICAL MALPRACTICE VERDICTS
http://www.commonwealinstitute.org/cw/files/CI-MedMalpracticeReport-Oct2004_0.pdf

 

[MaggieMae]

Uh huh.

 

[MaggieMae]

Malpractice insurance rates are not driving the crisis in health care costs. And frankly, med mal rates should be addressed by reducing the incidence of malpractice, not by closing the courthouse doors.

Your analysis is foolish, superficial and uninformed.

And you have facts to support this?!?!?!?! I'll be waiting

No one has demanded the court house doors be closed....

BTW let us know how you measure the effects of defensive medicine, defensive manufacturing, defensive Workman's comp claims, etc.... I'll be waiting

If you had actually done any of the research on your own, you wouldn't even be asking that question because the information is readily available proving there are several measurements, not just the lone one that has become the mantra of the far right.

 

[MaggieMae]

Raw costs may go up, as better coverage obviously means more health care for more people, especially very ill people. One reason I think health care is no longer suitable for the private marketplace is because of the enormous rise in costs...of drugs, of experimental procedures, of pallative care for the morbidly ill, of fraud, etc.

In Florida, the parents of a birth-injured child have no right to sue. Instead, there is a recovery fund, with a cap on the damage award and a prohibition against punitive damages. Nonetheless, med mal in general has not declined in price, and Ob/Gyn med mal has not declined either. IMO, one reason for this is that Florida has rendered itself a haven for bad Ob/Gyns who no longer need fear suit.

Medical malpractice insurance also costs a helluva lot more in Florida than it does in some of the less populated states. It's actually all over the board. There isn't a one-size-fits all policy for all practicing physicians or specialties.

 

[GWV5903]

I would have to check the official fact pages on campaign contributions, but I believe the US Chamber of Commerce tops them all. Wouldn't it be nice if their wide range of supporting contributors (thanks to the USSC decision) had the best interests of the working class in mind as they spend their millions campaigning for conservatives and lobbying against anything Democrats try to do, including getting people back to work.

Try Lawyers/Law Firms, #1 for 10 of the last 11 years......

Lawyers / Law Firms: Long-Term Contribution Trends | OpenSecrets

That doesn't show anything but the trend--as opposed to what other industry? If you link the "trend" to each interest group in the following link, that's also the only information you get. It doesn't show that lawyers were #1 against, say the health industry.

Interest Groups | OpenSecrets

Read the foot notes, then get back with me.....

 

[GWV5903]

I would have to check the official fact pages on campaign contributions, but I believe the US Chamber of Commerce tops them all. Wouldn't it be nice if their wide range of supporting contributors (thanks to the USSC decision) had the best interests of the working class in mind as they spend their millions campaigning for conservatives and lobbying against anything Democrats try to do, including getting people back to work.

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

Another one who apparently lives in the fantasy world of extremist wishful thinking.

There are literally millions of quieter conservative voices willing to compromise for the good of the nation's future but they get drowned out by you and people like Dude (oops, "Oddballs"). Democrats don't want to be totalitarians, and Obama doesn't want to be a dictator. Unfortunately, Republicans do and always have.

Your so desperate it's sad, millions willing to compromise? Are you deaf too? Drowned out by me on this MB? Way too much credit.....

Democraps passed the current HC Bill, and you declare Obummer is not a dictator? And what standard do you measure this by Mao or Lenin????

 

[GWV5903]

Maggie, are you paid buy a Right Wing Group to make Democraps look totally stupid? The highlighted statement of yours is simply amazing, I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes......

Do a little homework, the Democrap Party has all the votes they need to do whatever they want.....

The only people/voters who believe it is Bussssssshesssssss or Republicans fault anymore are the same people/voters who if given the chance would vote for Obummer TODAY and admit they did to the whole world.......

Wouldn't you like to be that special person......

GWV5903, this post of yours makes no fucking sense. If you want to drag Maggie off to the woodshed, you'll have to try harder.

A lot harder. Thanks. I'm always amused by factless rants. "I got nuthin' but I sure sound tough..."

Actually it's pretty easy.....

More like opinion, rant is a little too emotional for this statement.....

 

[GWV5903]

No, the bullshit is we let the Lawyers take us to the cleaners, until you have serious Tort Reform, we will never have a system that is even close to being good....



You reform the rules, you don't take it over.....

Just because you won't accept opposing points of view doesn't mean any of us plans to shut the fuck up. Ever. Deal with it or move on.

FAULTY DATA AND FALSE CONCLUSIONS
THE MYTH OF SKYROCKETING MEDICAL MALPRACTICE VERDICTS
http://www.commonwealinstitute.org/cw/files/CI-MedMalpracticeReport-Oct2004_0.pdf

Uh Faulty Data is your rebuttal?? Deal with it or move on???

Notice what profession the nay sayer is to Tort Reform in Texas, oh BTW these FACTS still hold up 7 years later......could it be they didn't accept your brainwashed view or do you still claim it is an opposing one.....

Illinois Business Journal - Dramatic changes follow Texas medical malpractice tort reform

Funny that a Illinois BJ could recognize this, but the Obummer Man still has his head in the sand......

 

[GWV5903]

Malpractice insurance rates are not driving the crisis in health care costs. And frankly, med mal rates should be addressed by reducing the incidence of malpractice, not by closing the courthouse doors.

Your analysis is foolish, superficial and uninformed.

And you have facts to support this?!?!?!?! I'll be waiting

No one has demanded the court house doors be closed....

BTW let us know how you measure the effects of defensive medicine, defensive manufacturing, defensive Workman's comp claims, etc.... I'll be waiting

If you had actually done any of the research on your own, you wouldn't even be asking that question because the information is readily available proving there are several measurements, not just the lone one that has become the mantra of the far right.

I'll attach this again, it's obvious you need it.....

Illinois Business Journal - Dramatic changes follow Texas medical malpractice tort reform

 

[Greenbeard]

Notice what profession the nay sayer is to Tort Reform in Texas, oh BTW these FACTS still hold up 7 years later......could it be they didn't accept your brainwashed view or do you still claim it is an opposing one.....

How are health care costs in Texas these days?

Quite the turnaround.

Their insurance premium increases from 2003 to 2008 were 24% for individual policies, 25% for family policies--slightly below the national average but not impressively so (indeed, some states with significantly worse medical liability climates had slower growth rates than did Texas). And as that first map shows, as a percentage of household incomes, health insurance premiums in Texas are among the highest in the country.

All this and they have the highest uninsurance rate in the country: 25.2% of the state's population goes without insurance.

 

[GWV5903]

Notice what profession the nay sayer is to Tort Reform in Texas, oh BTW these FACTS still hold up 7 years later......could it be they didn't accept your brainwashed view or do you still claim it is an opposing one.....

How are health care costs in Texas these days?

Quite the turnaround.

Their insurance premium increases from 2003 to 2008 were 24% for individual policies, 25% for family policies--slightly below the national average but not impressively so (indeed, some states with significantly worse medical liability climates had slower growth rates than did Texas). And as that first map shows, as a percentage of household incomes, health insurance premiums in Texas are among the highest in the country.

All this and they have the highest uninsurance rate in the country: 25.2% of the state's population goes without insurance.

Thanks for making my point even clearer, one of two things is apparent, you either support my position or you didn't read anything you posted, my money is on the later....

As for your links, the national average is 26% for individuals and 33% for families, Texas is at 24% and 25% respectively, family premiums far surpass the cost of individuals, BTW Texas is 8% below the average for families, most would consider 8% significant....

Also, your new math is interesting when you claim their premiums are slightly below the national average.....

Let's see, so when 34 of 50 states have significantly larger increases in both single & family premiums than Texas over the same period of time, you should consider revising your use of slightly, just a thought....

Your use of fig. 2 shows even more support for my position. The median household income for 16 of the 18 states with an increase of 18% or more for Employer Premium cost are beneath the national median average for household incomes....

That's 89% are beneath the average, WOW that is a incredible, I may have never found such compelling evidence to support Tort Reform, LMAO.....

The 5% sampling in your second map fails to break down Medicaid vs Medicare, it does however clearly show that population growth in Texas far exceeds all other major metro areas, hence more Medicare claims, and Texas also has the second (closing in on #1) largest population of illegal immigrants.....

That is my quick review of your sources, I am sure I could find some more facts from your links to support Tort Reform.....

Keep up the good work.....

 

[Greenbeard]

As for your links, the national average is 26% for individuals and 33% for families, Texas is at 24% and 25% respectively, family premiums far surpass the cost of individuals, BTW Texas is 8% below the average for families, most would consider 8% significant....

Also, your new math is interesting when you claim their premiums are slightly below the national average.....

What do you notice about all of the states that had the highest costs in 2003 (i.e. those with average premiums above 16% of median household income: Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Florida, South Carolina, New York, and Vermont)? Almost all of them saw premium growth at or below the national average from 2003-2008 (the only exceptions were New York, Vermont, and Arizona; Mississippi and Florida saw growth in family premiums above the national average). Why is that? In part the cost growth will reflect local factors--certainly that's what you're arguing about Texas--and in part we would expect states that already have the highest rates to grow more slowly than states that have a ways to go to "catch up."

But consider this. We know from Kaiser that from 1994-2003, the average annual growth in health care expenditures in Texas was 5.3%. If we assume for a moment that the growth in insurance premiums closely tracks the growth in expenditures (which may or may not be correct), if we continued this trend we would expect to see a roughly 29% growth in premiums costs over a five year period (which you can compare with Texas's actual 25% growth rate in employer premiums from 2003-2008). So premiums in Texas over that period grew at about 4.7% annually, not 5.3% (which they would if 1) premiums track costs and 2) the 1994-2003 trend continued through 2008). So let's say we could attribute that entire difference to malpractice reform--that's a 0.6% reduction in cost growth every year. That's actually not very far-fetched, as this assumption-laden back-of-the-envelope calculation comes remarkably close to the CBO's estimates of how much tort reform would reduce spending:

CBO now estimates that implementing a typical package of tort reform proposals nationwide would reduce total U.S. health care spending by about 0.5 percent (about $11 billion in 2009). That figure is the sum of a direct reduction in spending of 0.2 percent from lower medical liability premiums and an additional indirect reduction of 0.3 percent from slightly less utilization of health care services.​

Does tort reform have zero effect on costs? No, but the claim that it's a silver bullet (with its ~0.5% reduction in cost growth annually) to controlling health care costs seriously overestimates the magnitude of its effects. Texas is doing slightly better than it was a decade ago. And since you don't like my usage of words like "significant" or "slight," I'll put a number on that--our back-of-the-envelope exercise here suggests annual cost growth might've been reduced by between a half a percent and three-quarters of a percent. Hardly an authoritative estimate but it does agree with the literature.

Let's see, so when 34 of 50 states have significantly larger increases in both single & family premiums than Texas over the same period of time, you should consider revising your use of slightly, just a thought....

Without examining provider consolidation, state premium oversight rules, coverage initiatives, benefit levels, insurance markets, or even the variable you're claiming is determinative (medical liability climate), it's tough to say why Texas falls where it does and other states fall where they do. For example, Kentucky's family premium growth rates were comparable to those of Texas and its single premium growth rate was actually lower, yet it has the absolute worst medical liability climate rating. If medical liability climate is the key factor to cost growth, how can a state that's rated worst be doing as well as one that has one of the best ratings?

Your use of fig. 2 shows even more support for my position. The median household income for 16 of the 18 states with an increase of 18% or more for Employer Premium cost are beneath the national median average for household incomes....

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Every state had an increase in family premiums of more than 18% between 2003 and 2008--the smallest increase was Michigan's 20% increase over that period.

The map is showing you, as it says, employer premiums as a percentage of median household income. States marked as "18% or more" have the most expensive premiums--with respect to incomes in the state--in the nation. That 18% isn't a growth rate (i.e. it's not "an increase of 18%"), that's the percentage of incomes going toward health insurance premiums in that state.

The 5% sampling in your second map fails to break down Medicaid vs Medicare

Of course it breaks down Medicaid vs Medicare--it refers only to Medicare reimbursements. Medicaid doesn't need to be disentangled because it isn't involved here at all (and since Medicaid reimbursements differ from state to state, we wouldn't want it to be).

it does however clearly show that population growth in Texas far exceeds all other major metro areas, hence more Medicare claims,

"Reimbursements per enrollee" is independent of population. This is a picture of per capita spending, not total spending.

and Texas also has the second (closing in on #1) largest population of illegal immigrants.....

And?

 

[jillian]

Malpractice insurance rates are not driving the crisis in health care costs. And frankly, med mal rates should be addressed by reducing the incidence of malpractice, not by closing the courthouse doors.

Your analysis is foolish, superficial and uninformed.

And you have facts to support this?!?!?!?! I'll be waiting

No one has demanded the court house doors be closed....

BTW let us know how you measure the effects of defensive medicine, defensive manufacturing, defensive Workman's comp claims, etc.... I'll be waiting

she's correct. malpractice claims are controlled by various factors. first, they are costly to pursue. if an attorney does not believe a case will make him or her money, he or she isn't going to file it. second, before a malpractice case can be filed in court in many, if not most, jurisidications, they need to be brought before a merit panel where the prima facie basis of the claim is shown. if the panels don't believe they have merit no case can be pursued.

i'll be all for limiting malpractice claims when a malpracting doctor can limit the damage he can do to his patient.

what's a defensive workers' comp claim, btw, and what does it have to do with malpractice claims? (i don't think they're called workmen's comp anywhere anymore, but could be wrong about that). I don't know what you mean by 'defensive manufacturing' other than that they make products that are safter to use. you have a problem with that?

 

[bromiley]

Insurance is a defensive measure used against future conditional losses to hedge the possible risks of the future. It is a legal contract that protects a person from contingent risk of losses through financial means and provides a means for individuals and societies to handle some of the risks faced in daily life.