CDZ Impeachment Precedent

[JoeB131]

I'm not sure how that all came up

He whipped it out and asked Paula Jones to kiss it.

Okay... except that there was no evidence he did. Paula Jones claimed he had a distinguishing characteristic, which was not supported by women who have legitimately had sex with Clinton, nor by his physical records.

 

[JoeB131]

Withholding foreign aid is done all the time and for valid reasons. The problem for the Democrats is that they cannot prove what Trump's reasons were, and it seems to me that if you're going to impeach a sitting President that you oughta have some kind of real proof of wrong-doing rather than a bunch of suppositions, opinions, and personal guesses.

Except this wasn't withheld for a valid reason, and wrongdoing has been proven.

 

[JoeB131]

The impeachment is bull shit. Total propaganda.

What we should all be concerned about is our government using a clearly phony dossier to spy on a presidential campaign. They lied repeatedly to the FISA court to do their spying.

The KGB in the bad old days of the USSR, would greatly admire our FBI.

So what? The point was, a bunch of people associated with that campaign WERE dealing with the Russians.

 

[JoeB131]

Since I am the OP and started this thread lets get it back on topic.

There are other threads to discuss the impeachment but I wanted to have a real discussion on the precedent that the Democrats are setting with this partisan impeachment.

Do you really want to have it so that there is an impeachment whenever one party holds the House and the other party holds the White House? Trying to undo an election? If so can we make it retroactive back to 2010?

Is that really what you want?

Even Pelosi said that an impeachment vote along strict party line is wrong but that is exactly where this is going. It is going that way because the majority party has not proved "high crimes and misdemeanors" unlike other impeachments that had bipartisan support.

We are looking at all Republicans voting no along with probably a dozen Democrats and one of them even changing parties over this fiasco. That is a partisan as it gets.

Here's the thing... Pelosi had a reasonable expectation that when you had a line of professionals in the intelligence and diplomatic community testifying to Trump's crimes, including Trump appointees, Republicans would put party aside and do the right thing.

She was wrong.

The precedent was set when Republicans impeached Clinton over a sexual affair.

 

[JoeB131]

There is a chance the impeachment could be catastrophic for the Democrats...

If you guys really thought that, you wouldn't be complaining so loudly about it.

The reality- Impeachment will be a permanent mark on Trump's presidency. No party has retained the presidency in the next election after an impeachment... even the Lewinsky sham in 1999.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting. It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors. To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation. Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency? Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals. Is this really the way we want to run this country?

I'm much more concerned about presidential abuse of power, but lying about a blowjob is apparently much more serious to some. Why isn't the whole Whitewater fiasco seen in the same light? I think the Republicans are being very two-faced about this and THAT'S not "the way we want to run this country".

All parties are two face when it suits their agenda. The difference between the Slick Willy impeachment and the Trump impeachment is that the Willy impeachment had support of members of both parties. Unlike this Trump impeachment, which along strict party lines. The Democrats themselves have said that an impeachment along party lines is not the right to go. I would really rather have the discussion be over the legitimacy of an impeachment along party lines rather than partisan defense.

I'm sure you'd like that, instead of discussing abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Once again, process over facts.

Who committed Obstruction of Justice?

There was no articles of Impeachment for that...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

How is Trump illegitimate?

Can you point where any votes were changed in the 2016 election in favor of Trump?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting. It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors. To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation. Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency? Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals. Is this really the way we want to run this country?

I'm much more concerned about presidential abuse of power, but lying about a blowjob is apparently much more serious to some. Why isn't the whole Whitewater fiasco seen in the same light? I think the Republicans are being very two-faced about this and THAT'S not "the way we want to run this country".

but lying about a blowjob is apparently much more serious to some.

Lying about a blowjob to your wife, or your buddies is one thing, lying about a blowjob, or anything else, to a Grand Jury is something else.

Yet the motivation is exactly the same human reason, no matter who you're talking to.
It was none of our business, tbh, if he was getting bj's in the Oval. I'm not sure how that all came up but it's ridiculous to impeach a President for lying about something that has nothing to do with the country's business AT ALL. Yeah, he tried to squirm out of it. Wouldn't you? If the girl had taken her dress to the cleaners like she should have, we would currently be working on Impeachment #2, not #3.

Now, withholding aid to Ukraine IS our business, in a big way. Refusing to cooperate with Congress's investigation into it IS our business.

That is interesting how the left like you believe Clinton sexual affair with a woman that worked under him is no one business but Trump sexual life when he was a private citizen is everyone business...

Isn't that funny how that works?

Oh, Bill Clinton lied under oath when asked the question which is what caused his impeachment by the House and had Bill Clinton just stated the fact he did recieved oral sex from the young woman then most likely nothing would have happened...

But

With the #metoo movement today Bill Clinton would have been impeached even for the sexual affair and been accused of sexual abusing the woman...

So he is lucky it happened in the 1990's and not in today time but you would have forgiven him because he is a beloved Democrat...

 

[konradv]

All parties are two face when it suits their agenda. The difference between the Slick Willy impeachment and the Trump impeachment is that the Willy impeachment had support of members of both parties. Unlike this Trump impeachment, which along strict party lines. The Democrats themselves have said that an impeachment along party lines is not the right to go. I would really rather have the discussion be over the legitimacy of an impeachment along party lines rather than partisan defense.

I'm sure you'd like that, instead of discussing abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Once again, process over facts.

Who committed Obstruction of Justice? There was not articles of Impeachment for that...

I said "discussing", which again you're trying to avoid with petty quibbles like this.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

All parties are two face when it suits their agenda. The difference between the Slick Willy impeachment and the Trump impeachment is that the Willy impeachment had support of members of both parties. Unlike this Trump impeachment, which along strict party lines. The Democrats themselves have said that an impeachment along party lines is not the right to go. I would really rather have the discussion be over the legitimacy of an impeachment along party lines rather than partisan defense.

I'm sure you'd like that, instead of discussing abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Once again, process over facts.

Who committed Obstruction of Justice? There was not articles of Impeachment for that...

I said "discussing", which again you're trying to avoid with petty quibbles like this.

Again, the thread is about the Impeachment and Obstruction of Justice has nothing to do with the Impeachment.

Trump was Impeached by the House for Obstruction of Congress and it is you that want to introduce the Obstruction of Justice from the Mueller report that even House Democrats were careful not to add into this Impeachment.

So tell the board why Democrats did not go for Obstruction of Justice but instead Obstruction of Congress and you do know that the Obstruction of Congress will be tossed because of Adam Schiff comments, right?

 

[Obiwan]

I will make this real simple.

Republican House is controlled by Republicans. A Democrat is in the White House that the Republicans don't like.

The Republicans dream up impeachment charges against the Democrat President. Very little substance to the charges. They even charge him with Obstruction of Congress because he won't go along with their partisan scam. The charges are so weak that no Democrats join the Republicans. Only Republicans vote for the Impeachment.

Is that what you want?

Because that is exactly what is happening now except the parties are reversed.

The question: Is this the precedent you want for this country?

'very little substance to the charges'

Well that is the crux isn't it? Republicans claim there is no substance to the charges- yet about half of Americans support impeachment- because of the charges. Who decides whether there is substance or not? The House does.

Do I think that the opposition party should attempt impeachment whenever they hold the House opposite the President? No.

Do I think that the House should consider impeachment when a President asks a foreign government to investigate his political rival? Yes.

Actually, the SENATE decides if there is any substance to the charges (during the trial)...

And we all know that the Democrats are butthurt, and claiming that "it's not fair" that their charade is going to be shot down in flames...

 

[Obiwan]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting.

It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors.

To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation.

Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency?

Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals.

Okay, did you miss the whole 1999 Impeachment of Bill Clinton, which was over a personal matter, on a party line vote, very weak charges, and no high crimes or misdemeanors?

Congress couldn't have impeached Obama because 1) There was no evidence he knew what Lois Lerner was doing and 2) Lerner was within the letter of the law.

Gee, Clinton was impeached for PERJURY (A FELONY)!!!

But thank you for exposing the fact that Democrats think lying under oath in a legal proceeding is perfectly acceptable!!!

 

[Flash]

The filthy ass Democrats have set a precedent that will come back and bite them in the ass big time sometime in the future and they are too obsessed with the TDS mental illness to know better.

The only hope that they have is that the backlash against this scam Democrat Dirty Tricks impeachment will be so severe that no party will want to go down that path again.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The filthy ass Democrats have set a precedent that will come back and bite them in the ass big time sometime in the future and they are too obsessed with the TDS mental illness to know better.

The only hope that they have is that the backlash against this scam Democrat Dirty Tricks impeachment will be so severe that no party will want to go down that path again.

Oh the GOP will do it when the next Democrat President take a seat in the Oval Office...

Harry Reid pulled stunts like the Nuclear Option and holding up bills from the House when he was Senate Majority leader and Democrat voters applauded him for it but now McConnell has pulled a Reid for awhile the Democrats cry about it and hate being shown their stupidity.

In the end the Democrats opened Pandora Box just like they did with the Patriot Act, supporting the Invasion of Iraq, Nuclear Option in the Senate, holding up House Bills in the Senate and now Impeachment on a weak charge of Obstruction of Congress that will be tossed because of the fact the House did not exhaust the courts and Abuse of Power which will be tossed because every President since Washington has committed that crime...

Oh, the tangle web they have spun to only catch themselves in...

 

[BULLDOG]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

How is Trump illegitimate?

Can you point where any votes were changed in the 2016 election in favor of Trump?

We both know minds and votes are certainly changed through advertising. That's why political parties spend millions on it every election. The FALSE information spread by Russian sources have been shown to have had an effect on the outcome of the election. Just because it's difficult, or impossible to put an exact number on how drastically the election numbers were effected doesn't mean the effect wasn't substantial. Your taunt about how many votes were changed for Trump is either the ramblings of a less than intelligent person, or the direct application of unethical misdirection. I know the leadership of the GOP is smart enough to see what really happened, so their repetition of that meme is proof positive of lack of integrity.

 

[gipper]

The impeachment is bull shit. Total propaganda.

What we should all be concerned about is our government using a clearly phony dossier to spy on a presidential campaign. They lied repeatedly to the FISA court to do their spying.

The KGB in the bad old days of the USSR, would greatly admire our FBI.

So what? The point was, a bunch of people associated with that campaign WERE dealing with the Russians.

No they weren’t.

 

[Flash]

The filthy ass Democrats have set a precedent that will come back and bite them in the ass big time sometime in the future and they are too obsessed with the TDS mental illness to know better.

The only hope that they have is that the backlash against this scam Democrat Dirty Tricks impeachment will be so severe that no party will want to go down that path again.

Oh the GOP will do it when the next Democrat President take a seat in the Oval Office...

Harry Reid pulled stunts like the Nuclear Option and holding up bills from the House when he was Senate Majority leader and Democrat voters applauded him for it but now McConnell has pulled a Reid for awhile the Democrats cry about it and hate being shown their stupidity.

In the end the Democrats opened Pandora Box just like they did with the Patriot Act, supporting the Invasion of Iraq, Nuclear Option in the Senate, holding up House Bills in the Senate and now Impeachment on a weak charge of Obstruction of Congress that will be tossed because of the fact the House did not exhaust the courts and Abuse of Power which will be tossed because every President since Washington has committed that crime...

Oh, the tangle web they have spun to only catch themselves in...

You are probably correct, however, I think the backlash we are seeing from the Democrat Dirty Tricks will be so severe no party will ever strategize to go down that path again.

This is insuring a Trump landslide in 2020 and the Democrats are too afflicted with TDS to see it. The lesson will become very apparent in November.

 

[candycorn]

I am really concerned about the precedent this impeachment is setting. It is along strict party lines. Very weak charges. No high crimes or misdemeanors. To me it is not a legitimate impeachment but a Democrat Dirty Tricks Operation. Is this going to be the precedent every time one party is in control of the House and another Party holds the Presidency? Democrats should be just as concerned as Republicans because it could happen to them next. For instance, the Republican Congress could have impeached Obama over him abusing his power by using the IRS to disenfranchise his political rivals. Is this really the way we want to run this country?

I'm much more concerned about presidential abuse of power, but lying about a blowjob is apparently much more serious to some. Why isn't the whole Whitewater fiasco seen in the same light? I think the Republicans are being very two-faced about this and THAT'S not "the way we want to run this country".

All parties are two face when it suits their agenda. The difference between the Slick Willy impeachment and the Trump impeachment is that the Willy impeachment had support of members of both parties. Unlike this Trump impeachment, which is along strict party lines. Not only will no Republicans vote for it in the House but we are liable to get significant Democrat votes against it.

The Democrats themselves have said that an impeachment along party lines is not the right to go.

I would really rather have the discussion be over the legitimacy of an impeachment along party lines rather than partisan defense.

it was cute how you tried to keep your self civil but reverted to the blob-ous operandi of pure hatred.

when the blob oozes out of office and you pivot and disavow him, the feverish partisanship will subside somewhat.

The interesting thing is how much power the parties are now wielding despite the hollow proclamations made here daily.

 

[CWayne]

Trump will forever be seen as an incompetent illegitimate president, and now he will be known as one of the few who were impeached. What a loser.

How is Trump illegitimate?

Can you point where any votes were changed in the 2016 election in favor of Trump?

We both know minds and votes are certainly changed through advertising. That's why political parties spend millions on it every election. The FALSE information spread by Russian sources have been shown to have had an effect on the outcome of the election. Just because it's difficult, or impossible to put an exact number on how drastically the election numbers were effected doesn't mean the effect wasn't substantial. Your taunt about how many votes were changed for Trump is either the ramblings of a less than intelligent person, or the direct application of unethical misdirection. I know the leadership of the GOP is smart enough to see what really happened, so their repetition of that meme is proof positive of lack of integrity.

Thanks, I found this to be highly amusing.

The media has significantly more influence over our elections than the Russians ever have.

 

[Flash]

"Hey, lets do a scam impeachment against a very successful President, what could possibly go wrong?"