Immunity Deals Offered to Blackwater Guards

[Gunny]

My side's lives are more important than the other side's lives - that's a constant.

There is no war in Iraq. The war is over. There is an occupation which is being resisted, that's continuing.

No, I didn't make any reference to not defending myself, that would be silly.

Here's some of your "occupation being resisted:" http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=50986

 

[Diuretic]

You attempt to oversimplify the situation in Iraq by leaps and bounds by recognizing on the "occupation," and relegating a war waged against US troops and noncombtants of the respective wrong religious beliefs to "resisted."

There are several wars being waged simultaneously.

I'm not attempting to oversimplifying it Gunny, I am oversimplifying it, deliberately. In my mind (wrong as I may be), there was an invasion ("war") and then an occupation when that succeeded. Now it's occupation forces - regular and contracted mercernaries - fighting a whole bunch of resistance fighters. That's how I see it.

I accept there's no unified resistance but what they do have in common is trying to kick out the occupiers. Now at this point my oversimplification stops and I start thinking about where to from here. And - surprise - I haven't got a damn clue from there. And don't think for a moment I'm trivialising what's happening, I'm not. What's happening is a lot of people are getting killed who didn't have to get killed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not attempting to oversimplifying it Gunny, I am oversimplifying it, deliberately. In my mind (wrong as I may be), there was an invasion ("war") and then an occupation when that succeeded. Now it's occupation forces - regular and contracted mercernaries - fighting a whole bunch of resistance fighters. That's how I see it.

I accept there's no unified resistance but what they do have in common is trying to kick out the occupiers. Now at this point my oversimplification stops and I start thinking about where to from here. And - surprise - I haven't got a damn clue from there. And don't think for a moment I'm trivialising what's happening, I'm not. What's happening is a lot of people are getting killed who didn't have to get killed.

It was so much better when all the dead and those with out water and power were just unknown Iraqis being murdered by Saddam Hussein, right?

 

[Diuretic]

It was so much better when all the dead and those with out water and power were just unknown Iraqis being murdered by Saddam Hussein, right?

Yep. Ol' Saddam was bombing the shit out of his population every Thursday afternoon at 1500 precisely, but only for two hours, after which he resumed normal services such as ensuring power, water, medical facilities, free education...Need I go on?

And he could do this with impunity.

For years.

And then he started to make noises about oil and petrodollars and the heavens fell in.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yep. Ol' Saddam was bombing the shit out of his population every Thursday afternoon at 1500 precisely, but only for two hours, after which he resumed normal services such as ensuring power, water, medical facilities, free education...Need I go on?

And he could do this with impunity.

For years.

And then he started to make noises about oil and petrodollars and the heavens fell in.

Since you are in agreement that what a country does inside its own borders is none of your business I wonder why you have so many "discussions" on our rights, and our needs? It is after all NONE of your business?

 

[Dr Grump]

Since you are in agreement that what a country does inside its own borders is none of your business I wonder why you have so many "discussions" on our rights, and our needs? It is after all NONE of your business?

Probably for the same reason you discuss Iran, Iraq, Cuba or any other country...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Probably for the same reason you discuss Iran, Iraq, Cuba or any other country...

Except I do not make the claim that we have no business in other nations affairs if it is in our national self interest.

 

[Dr Grump]

Except I do not make the claim that we have no business in other nations affairs if it is in our national self interest.

IOW, you like interferring in other country's internal affairs. Hhhmm, why does the rest of the world dislike the US when it is trying so hard to be liked.... Home of hte brave, land of the free huh? pppfffttt...Under Bush is it "Home of the "we only matter nobody else does", and "people should be grateful to us for their freedom". How can people be truly free if the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. Do you think sabre rattling and telling other nations what to do marries with the priciples on which your country was founded?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IOW, you like interferring in other country's internal affairs. Hhhmm, why does the rest of the world dislike the US when it is trying so hard to be liked.... Home of hte brave, land of the free huh? pppfffttt...Under Bush is it "Home of the "we only matter nobody else does", and "people should be grateful to us for their freedom". How can people be truly free if the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. Do you think sabre rattling and telling other nations what to do marries with the priciples on which your country was founded?

Ignorant pap, but to be expected. Sometimes, just for a moment, I wish we ACTUALLY were the evil empire you try to make us out to be. Then you might actually see the difference.

 

[Dr Grump]

Ignorant pap, but to be expected. Sometimes, just for a moment, I wish we ACTUALLY were the evil empire you try to make us out to be. Then you might actually see the difference.

So you aren't in Iraq? There were no black ops in the 1980s in Central America? Vietnam was a figment of my imagination? K....Oh, you definitely have evil, but you also do a lot of good. I think there are thousands of families in Iraq who know the difference now...plus the 3000+ stateside as well...

 

[Diuretic]

Since you are in agreement that what a country does inside its own borders is none of your business I wonder why you have so many "discussions" on our rights, and our needs? It is after all NONE of your business?

Up yours, I'll comment about whatever I wish. Grow up, ninny

 

[Diuretic]

Ignorant pap, but to be expected. Sometimes, just for a moment, I wish we ACTUALLY were the evil empire you try to make us out to be. Then you might actually see the difference.

Don't put that up for an invite, you wouldn't like the result and I wouldn't take pleasure in proving the historical venality of US foreign policy over the years. I can, I'd prefer not to. But in doing so I'd have to acknowledge the venality of many other countries. Just don't put up the crap that the US is altruistic and without blame in its foreign policy, that's complete, utter, childish bullshit.

 

[Diuretic]

So you aren't in Iraq? There were no black ops in the 1980s in Central America? Vietnam was a figment of my imagination? K....Oh, you definitely have evil, but you also do a lot of good. I think there are thousands of families in Iraq who know the difference now...plus the 3000+ stateside as well...

I was in Texas a few years ago and on a trip down to the Rio Grande with a bloke who was ex-US Army. As you do on a work-related road trip we talked a lot and exchanged a lot of info about each other's lives. I asked him about his Army service and the conversation was interesting but it had to stop when I asked him where he served. He gave me a few innocuous answers and then said, words to the effect of, "I served in countries where we never went, officially" and we agreed that the conversation would go no further on that tack.

 

[eots]

I was in Texas a few years ago and on a trip down to the Rio Grande with a bloke who was ex-US Army. As you do on a work-related road trip we talked a lot and exchanged a lot of info about each other's lives. I asked him about his Army service and the conversation was interesting but it had to stop when I asked him where he served. He gave me a few innocuous answers and then said, words to the effect of, "I served in countries where we never went, officially" and we agreed that the conversation would go no further on that tack.

but i thought secretes could never be kept ? wouldn't doing secrete operations ,illegal operations be a conspiracy ? and if it was without consent or knowledge of the congress or administration could it be a type of shadow government ?

 

[mattskramer]

Probably for the same reason you discuss Iran, Iraq, Cuba or any other country...

Excellent point. People seldom try to put their feet in the other person’s shoes or see things from a different perspective. There are many pots with poor eyesight in America. Those things can only see dark kettles if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I would also point out that there is a difference among simply telling a nation that you don’t like the way it functions, creating trade sanctions, and invading a nation because you don’t like what it does.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Up yours, I'll comment about whatever I wish. Grow up, ninny

Don't appreciate being shown the bullshit of your stances, I can undersrtand that. The one that needs growing up would be the one that talks out of both sides of their mouth.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Don't put that up for an invite, you wouldn't like the result and I wouldn't take pleasure in proving the historical venality of US foreign policy over the years. I can, I'd prefer not to. But in doing so I'd have to acknowledge the venality of many other countries. Just don't put up the crap that the US is altruistic and without blame in its foreign policy, that's complete, utter, childish bullshit.

Never said anything of the sort, but the refrain about how evil we are is ignorant bullshit.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

but i thought secretes could never be kept ? wouldn't doing secrete operations ,illegal operations be a conspiracy ? and if it was without consent or knowledge of the congress or administration could it be a type of shadow government ?

Your ignorant as usual, just because his duty tours are already known does not relieve him of the oath to remain silent on them.

 

[mattskramer]

Never said anything of the sort, but the refrain about how evil we are is ignorant bullshit.

The patchwork quilts of nations’ histories each have their share of difficult stains.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Don't put that up for an invite, you wouldn't like the result and I wouldn't take pleasure in proving the historical venality of US foreign policy over the years. I can, I'd prefer not to. But in doing so I'd have to acknowledge the venality of many other countries. Just don't put up the crap that the US is altruistic and without blame in its foreign policy, that's complete, utter, childish bullshit.

Tsk…tsk…tsk!

Dee, why do you entertain arguing with a man who is convinced “God” communicates with mankind through an illiterate child molesting Mason and convicted conman?

Would you attend a debating society at Parkside loony bin? Would you have tried to reason my psychedelic snakes away when I was in the DT’s?...discussed religious ideology with Dimwit?

Then why try to talk sense into this flag-waving Walter Mittyish widget!

I can only conclude you indulge this imbecile because you delight in shooting stunned mullet in a water barrel...of cerebrally beating up the mental equivalent of a lobotomized Bonobo.

Clearly Captain Corsets, along with his equally crazy Christian colleagues, is a delusional, deranged, and dangerous psychotic, who should be nape shot/given a sniff of Zyklon B before he/they breed with some other bit of barkingly mad genetic garbage!