Immunity Deals Offered to Blackwater Guards

[mattskramer]

This is YOU, is it not...

I'm not particularly interested in the whole Clinton thing. After 40 million dollars of our money being spent on investigating the Clinton's all Ken Starr got was a blue dress.
(POST #13)

Clinton...blue dress...Starr.....investigation ????

You do have an inkling about what you type don't you.....
and how you mis-characterize what the investigation was all about...

Conversing with you is like talking to a belligerent, pigheaded child...

Look at post # 24.

Thanks to Starr's work, in April 1999 Judge Wright found President Clinton in civil contempt of court for misleading testimony in the Jones case. She ordered Clinton to pay Jones $91,000 for the expenses incurred as the result of Clinton's evasive and misleading answers.

 

[Alpha1]

You want to leave Jillian off the hook for lies and tapdancing like a bare foot firewalker.....
Why change the subject....

 

[eots]

MILAN (Reuters) - An Italian judge adjourned until March 12 the trial of U.S. and Italian spies accused of kidnapping a terrorism suspect in Milan, giving a higher court more time to decide whether the case breaks state secrecy rules.

The trial is the first anywhere over the U.S. practice of "extraordinary rendition", whereby terrorism suspects are secretly transferred to third countries.

Twenty-six Americans -- nearly all believed to be CIA agents -- are being tried in absentia on charges of kidnapping Muslim cleric Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr off a Milan street and flying him to Egypt, where Nasr says he was tortured under questioning.

Italian spies, including the former head of Italy's military intelligence agency, are also being tried for helping the CIA.

The trial, which has embarrassed Rome and Washington, hit a roadblock shortly after it began in June when the Italian government asked the country's highest court on constitutional matters to throw out the case.

Prime Minister Romano Prodi's government argued prosecutors broke state secrecy rules when building their case. A decision by the constitutional court is expected by early next year.

Prosecutors say a CIA-led team grabbed Nasr in Milan, drove him to a military base in northern Italy and flew him to Egypt.

Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, says he was tortured under interrogation with electric shocks, beatings, rape threats and genital abuse. He has spoken of possibly building on his fame as a rendition victim to launch a political career in Egypt.

The United States has said it will refuse any request by Italy to extradite the accused.

 

[Diuretic]

MILAN (Reuters) - An Italian judge adjourned until March 12 the trial of U.S. and Italian spies accused of kidnapping a terrorism suspect in Milan, giving a higher court more time to decide whether the case breaks state secrecy rules.

The trial is the first anywhere over the U.S. practice of "extraordinary rendition", whereby terrorism suspects are secretly transferred to third countries.

Twenty-six Americans -- nearly all believed to be CIA agents -- are being tried in absentia on charges of kidnapping Muslim cleric Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr off a Milan street and flying him to Egypt, where Nasr says he was tortured under questioning.

Italian spies, including the former head of Italy's military intelligence agency, are also being tried for helping the CIA.

The trial, which has embarrassed Rome and Washington, hit a roadblock shortly after it began in June when the Italian government asked the country's highest court on constitutional matters to throw out the case.

Prime Minister Romano Prodi's government argued prosecutors broke state secrecy rules when building their case. A decision by the constitutional court is expected by early next year.

Prosecutors say a CIA-led team grabbed Nasr in Milan, drove him to a military base in northern Italy and flew him to Egypt.

Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, says he was tortured under interrogation with electric shocks, beatings, rape threats and genital abuse. He has spoken of possibly building on his fame as a rendition victim to launch a political career in Egypt.

The United States has said it will refuse any request by Italy to extradite the accused.

Perhaps Italy may take a leaf out of the US foreign policy book and start extraodinary renditions of its own

 

[Alpha1]

Rendition.....It seems like only yesterday.....


"In the United States, we have this thing called the Constitution, so to bring him (Osama)here is to bring him into the justice system," Mr. Berger told the Washington Post in October 2001.
"I don't think that was our first choice. Our first choice was to send him someplace where justice is more 'streamlined.'"

Letting the cat out of the bag, so to speak....
Of course there was no uproar about this then....because it was the Dims...
"someplace where justice is more 'streamlined....."

But the lefties seemed so surprised and jumped all over Bush later....
Hypocrites to the core....

 

[Chips Rafferty]

I don't know what US law is on inducements but in my jurisdiction that would mean the end of the prosecution attempt, never to be seen again.

Lets not let them get the cart before the horse again.

If, according to US law, Al Qaeda fighters have no rights under the Geneva Convention because they don't wear their country's uniform, then neither does Blackwater’s notional non-combatants.

Consequently, if captured, they too could face a Kangaroo court, "rendition," and/or a firing (beheading?) squad and Americans would be hypocritical if the complained.

Or, in the case in question, summarily shot if caught at the scene of the crime.

 

[Diuretic]

Lets not let them get the cart before the horse again.

If, according to US law, Al Qaeda fighters have no rights under the Geneva Convention because they don't wear their country's uniform, then neither does Blackwater’s notional non-combatants.

Consequently, if captured, they too could face a Kangaroo court, "rendition," and/or a firing (beheading?) squad and Americans would be hypocritical if the complained.

Or, in the case in question, summarily shot if caught at the scene of the crime.

But the whole basis of the immunity for Blackwater (and others?) was that Iraq was an occupied state and the occupiers were making the rules. The previous regime was finished and there was in effect no state so the occupiers could do whatever they liked - and they did. They said that Blackwater could do whatever it liked and not be held accountable. That's how occupations work, force rules.

 

[eots]

BY MICHAEL McAULIFF
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Monday, October 1st 2007, 4:00 AM



Print Email Suggest a Story
WASHINGTON - What the nation needs is some good Jack Bauer agents, says Bill Clinton.

Bill and Hillary Clinton apparently no longer think torture has a place in U.S. policy, but Bubba sure hopes a "24"-style cowboy steps up if someone ever nabs a terrorist who knows a bomb is about to blow.

"If you're the Jack Bauer person, you'll do whatever you do and you should be prepared to take the consequences," Bill Clinton said yesterday.

In Fox's hit show "24," actor Kiefer Sutherland's character Jack Bauer is regularly confronted with the ticking-time bomb scenario - and makes his own rules about how to save the country.

Pointing to the show, Clinton argued on NBC's "Meet the Press" it was better that way because any law that approved torture could be abused.

"If you have any kind of a formal exception, people just drive a truck through it, and they'll say, 'Well, I thought it was covered by the exception,'" Clinton said.

"When Bauer goes out there on his own and is prepared to live with the consequences, it always seems to work better," he said.

In the past, the Clintons had been in favor of some sort of legal authority to torture in just those rare cases, but Hillary announced in last week's Democratic debate that she changed her mind.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

But the whole basis of the immunity for Blackwater (and others?) was that Iraq was an occupied state and the occupiers were making the rules. The previous regime was finished and there was in effect no state so the occupiers could do whatever they liked - and they did. They said that Blackwater could do whatever it liked and not be held accountable. That's how occupations work, force rules.

Put another way, "They are only sub-human unsaved ragheads, sitting on our God given oil, and not deserving of the same rights and consideration as us sickeningly decent, save-the-world-before-smoko, WASP's."

....and here was me beginning to believe all the bullshit about Merkin's abiding love of the poor oppressed Eye-rakis and all the other benighted peoples of the world. How the Bruce Ruxton like Gunnies here self-sacrificingly died horrible deaths in four world wars to save the ever "evil" world from itself.

 

[mattskramer]

Please explain as simply as you can the Blackwater incident. All I know about Blackwater is that it is a kidney disease in which blood from it leaks into the urine.

 

[Diuretic]

Put another way, "They are only sub-human unsaved ragheads, sitting on our God given oil, and not deserving of the same rights and consideration as us sickeningly decent, save-the-world-before-smoko, WASP's."

....and here was me beginning to believe all the bullshit about Merkin's abiding love of the poor oppressed Eye-rakis and all the other benighted peoples of the world. How the Bruce Ruxton like Gunnies here self-sacrificingly died horrible deaths in four world wars to save the ever "evil" world from itself.

It does make sense though, if you take the position that it was and is all about oil. There could have been an attempt by Iraqis to upset the grand plan to seize the oil and so it was necessary to have both military and mercenary forces dedicated to ensuring the objective was achieved, whatever it takes. And it worked.

Is Bruce still kicking? Haven't heard a growl from him for ages.

 

[eots]

Please explain as simply as you can the Blackwater incident. All I know about Blackwater is that it is a kidney disease in which blood from it leaks into the urine.
__________________
"Extremes to the right and left of any political dispute are always wrong."
—Dwight D. Eisenhower



google it ! mofo

Blackwater incident witness: 'It was hell' - CNN.comAn Iraqi police officer who was directing traffic at Baghdad's Nusoor Square on September 16 said Blackwater guards "became the terrorists" that Sunday ...
www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/02/blackwater.witness/ - 71k -

 

[Gunny]

Can you stop using buzz words/phrases, you're confusing me.

Gunny, this is to you:



Sez who?

Says the way wars have been fought since the first two trogs beat each with rocks. Without one side and/or the other placing higher values on their respective sides, there wouldn't be a war, now would there?

Fact is, there IS a war. Fact is, noncombatant American diplomats need protection. Fact is, the term "protection" itself implies placing a higher value on the "protected" than the unprotected.

Are you trying to say that when someone attacks you that you will not or have not defended yourself? If you did not place a higher value on your safety than the safety of your attacker, you obviously woudn't fight back.

 

[mattskramer]

Please explain as simply as you can the Blackwater incident. All I know about Blackwater is that it is a kidney disease in which blood from it leaks into the urine.
__________________
"Extremes to the right and left of any political dispute are always wrong."
—Dwight D. Eisenhower



google it ! mofo

Blackwater incident witness: 'It was hell' - CNN.comAn Iraqi police officer who was directing traffic at Baghdad's Nusoor Square on September 16 said Blackwater guards "became the terrorists" that Sunday ...
www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/02/blackwater.witness/ - 71k -

Okay. Okay. There was no need for such name-calling. You have at least 3 posts on this thread with Blackwater as a word in the thread’s title. Therefore I thought that you’d have enough interest in it to educate me. I even asked politely. No need to be so testy. I’m sorry that I was so lazy and too busy to look for info on it for myself. Thanks for the information anyway. Sheesh. That’s what I get for simply asking for a favor. Oucky

 

[Gunny]

Okay. Okay. There was no need for such name-calling. You have at least 3 posts on this thread with Blackwater as a word in the thread’s title. Therefore I thought that you’d have enough interest in it to educate me. I even asked politely. No need to be so testy. I’m sorry that I was so lazy and too busy to look for info on it for myself. Thanks for the information anyway. Sheesh. That’s what I get for simply asking for a favor. Oucky

The quick and easy is Blackwater provides physical security for State Dept personnel. It is the latest scapegoat in the witchhunt to emasculate the US effort in Iraqi.

If you look, you'll find the actual incident that has caused all the comotion fairly close to the top in one of these forums because I posted it.

It boils down to Blackwater operatives saying they came under fire and soem iraqis saying they just started shooting.

 

[Diuretic]

Says the way wars have been fought since the first two trogs beat each with rocks. Without one side and/or the other placing higher values on their respective sides, there wouldn't be a war, now would there?

Fact is, there IS a war. Fact is, noncombatant American diplomats need protection. Fact is, the term "protection" itself implies placing a higher value on the "protected" than the unprotected.

Are you trying to say that when someone attacks you that you will not or have not defended yourself? If you did not place a higher value on your safety than the safety of your attacker, you obviously woudn't fight back.

My side's lives are more important than the other side's lives - that's a constant.

There is no war in Iraq. The war is over. There is an occupation which is being resisted, that's continuing.

No, I didn't make any reference to not defending myself, that would be silly.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

It does make sense though, if you take the position that it was and is all about oil. There could have been an attempt by Iraqis to upset the grand plan to seize the oil and so it was necessary to have both military and mercenary forces dedicated to ensuring the objective was achieved, whatever it takes. And it worked.

Is Bruce still kicking? Haven't heard a growl from him for ages.

However, just as every American war since their decent Puritan (spit!) forefathers holocausted the Injuns wasn't ever about the '"evil" others wealth, the Raghead "War" (American code for coon shoot) WASN'T about oil and grand strategy, was it!

Same as America came into WW2 - at the 11th Hour and 55 minutes, I might add - to stop the Holocaust, if you ask them now, they voted to man....well, would you believe ONE drug addicted man?.. to oust Saddam, their “Hitler’ du jour, and let his Towel Heads go.

I cant even begin to imagine a country where believing such self-aggrandizing tosh about yourself doesn't get you incarcerated in a long-sleeved canvas cardigan in a Styro-foam room!

My alcohol turns to ice water when I think that there but for the grace of Marx go you and I!

If we had been born in Tayuksus (The Pope forbid it!) we too would most probably have ten gallon heads and be talking indefensible drivel, like Gungho L and his truculent "Left Behind" base wallah mates

I think Bruce has been fighting the Japs and the "Poofo Pinko Lezos" in his Proddie Paradise for some time now.

 

[eots]

But the whole basis of the immunity for Blackwater (and others?) was that Iraq was an occupied state and the occupiers were making the rules. The previous regime was finished and there was in effect no state so the occupiers could do whatever they liked - and they did. They said that Blackwater could do whatever it liked and not be held accountable. That's how occupations work, force rules.

force never rules in only creates terrorist/ freedom fighters and ultimately fails

 

[Diuretic]

force never rules in only creates terrorist/ freedom fighters and ultimately fails

True that it takes a huge commitment to keep a population under the heel of the occupier's boot. But it can be done and it can be done for lengthy periods.

 

[Gunny]

My side's lives are more important than the other side's lives - that's a constant.

There is no war in Iraq. The war is over. There is an occupation which is being resisted, that's continuing.

No, I didn't make any reference to not defending myself, that would be silly.

You attempt to oversimplify the situation in Iraq by leaps and bounds by recognizing on the "occupation," and relegating a war waged against US troops and noncombtants of the respective wrong religious beliefs to "resisted."

There are several wars being waged simultaneously.