Immigration Reform - Catz v. Uncensored

Uncensored2008

Libertarian Radical
Feb 8, 2011
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Behind the Orange Curtain
The first step is to define the parameters of the debate.

The conservative position traditionally holds for border control, including a border fence. Opposition to amnesty, including amnesty through the Dream Act. Opposition to drivers licenses for illegal aliens, and enforcement of I9 verification.

The leftist position traditionally holds for a more lax border, opposition to the border fence, opposition to border patrol pursuing border crossings. Support for the Dream Act and general amnesty. Support for drivers licenses for illegals. I9 verification is termed "racist" and profiling.

Personalities have little to do with the positions. The first TEA parties were held in opposition to the efforts of John McCain and George W. Bush to float an amnesty for illegal aliens in 2006. Bush and McCain were motivated by the desire to pander to Hispanic voters. That these were/are Republicans, does not make support of amnesty a "conservative" position. To claim it does is simply ignorant.

I will argue either the leftist side or the conservative side; your choice. I will not argue "pot luck.'
 
I don't believe that these positions are either conservative or liberal, per se. The dream act is widely supported by political leaders in border/western states of the U.S. who are dealing with the practical ramifications of having large numbers of immigrants.

Why don't we debate the merits of the dream act itself, both pro and con? I'll take the pro side, you can take the con side.

Are you up to that?
 
I don't believe that these positions are either conservative or liberal, per se. The dream act is widely supported by political leaders in border/western states of the U.S. who are dealing with the practical ramifications of having large numbers of immigrants.

Why don't we debate the merits of the dream act itself, both pro and con? I'll take the pro side, you can take the con side.

Are you up to that?

Sure.
 
XXXXXXX It is probably fair to say that the "sides" have arguments that are more subtle and honestly nuanced than the positions ascribed to them in the OP.

So, not only have we not decided on the basic points to be argued, it doesn't even seem to be settled what the larger debate topic will be overall.

I still say we need that Round Table.
 
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Are you people involved in this debate?

I thought the topic was: The Dream Act

I am pro, Uncensored is con.

To be more specific, I am going to be pro Dream Act legislation proposed by Hatch/Lugar. I am not interested in debating Obama's executive order.

Is this enough clarification?

To judge the winner, I have two thoughts. We select people known for impartiality and appoint a panel to decide. Or, we post a poll somewhere, but that tends to be skewed by party affiliations.
 
Are you people involved in this debate?

I thought the topic was: The Dream Act

I am pro, Uncensored is con.

To be more specific, I am going to be pro Dream Act legislation proposed by Hatch/Lugar. I am not interested in debating Obama's executive order.

Is this enough clarification?

To judge the winner, I have two thoughts. We select people known for impartiality and appoint a panel to decide. Or, we post a poll somewhere, but that tends to be skewed by party affiliations.

Wow. It doesn't look like you 2 are on the same page on even the topic.

Round Table, I tell ya!
 
Are you people involved in this debate?

I thought the topic was: The Dream Act

I am pro, Uncensored is con.

To be more specific, I am going to be pro Dream Act legislation proposed by Hatch/Lugar. I am not interested in debating Obama's executive order.

Is this enough clarification?

To judge the winner, I have two thoughts. We select people known for impartiality and appoint a panel to decide. Or, we post a poll somewhere, but that tends to be skewed by party affiliations.
Consider me like a juror who just asked the court to clarify a question.

Other than that, :eusa_silenced:.
 
The Dream Act is an amnesty program for illegal aliens. It is an acronym for "Development, Relief, and Education of Alien Minors." The Dream Act offers amnesty to people who have entered the United States illegally as a minor.

The Dream Act is an augmenting of the "Anchor Baby" provisions, a means of flooding the United States with unskilled immigrants from Latin America. Mexican and other illegals have long used Anchor Baby provisions to thwart immigration controls. By having a child on United State soil, the child is automatically granted citizenship. Generally this gives the family immunity to stay in the country by merit of illegally entering the country and having a baby.

The Dream Act also confers amnesty on the child of illegal aliens, which will by extension provide immunity from deportation on the extended family. Where an anchor baby requires the illegals to get to American soil within 9 months, the Dream Act extends the open border to 16 years. As long as foreign nationals can illegally enter the country before the child's 16 birthday, they can get amnesty for the child and immunity for themselves.

The Dream Act was authored by left-wing democrat Dick Durbin and open borders advocate, Neocon Orin Hatch. Several provisions in the act differentiate it from the general amnesty that George W. Bush and John McCain advocated in 2006. The Dream Act limits amnesty to those who have a high school diploma, a GED, or who enlist in the armed service. The third item has gained support of the Pentagon, as it creates a stream of low level, general infantry.

While open border and amnesty proponents have pointed to educational requirements, a little over half of those granted amnesty under the Dream Act have done so through military enlistment rather than meeting the GED requirement. Opponents have pointed to this as evidence that the act was not sincere in the educational provisions.

The Dream Act was defeated in congress, but President Obama took a position outside of the constitution and simply declared the act to be law by proclamation. Using the "my word is law" position angered many Americans, particularly those opposed to open borders. Obama thwarted the constitution in hopes of gaining Hispanic support for his reelection campaign. Opposition candidate Mitt Romney has promised to revoke the law if elected, allowing the legislature to work within the framework or the United States Constitution.

Reference:

adreamact.com/what-is-the-dream-act/
DREAM Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Obama Violates Constitution to Pass the DREAM Act! | U.S. Border Control
Obama vs. the rule of law - Right Turn - The Washington Post
 
Much of the opposition to "amnesty" stems from the 1980's, where it only served to encourage even greater illegal immigration. Complete the border fence, develop tamper proof ID cards and make reentry to the US after deportation a felony, and opposition to granting legal residency to those who already here would greatly diminish.
 
Uncensored,

Some stuff came up today and I haven't been able to be on much. I'll tackle this during the weekend. My husband will be at reserves, and I'll need something to do in between painting my living room.
 
We have a term over here that's aptly applied to abuses of well-intended immigration amnesties drafted after it's clear to all that the issue wasn't nipped in the bud when it should've been.

Give 'em an inch and they'll take a yard.

Except your brown neighbours south of the border don't seem to be content with just a yard. They seem to want the whole south eastern corner of the United States.
 

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