I'm thinking of going over to the Episcopalians...

[ding]

If course they do. I am arguing they are wrong to do it.

Render to Caesar and all that Jazz.

I am "rendering" to the Catholic Church.

I will not stay in the Church and break their rules.

It is more honorable to leave and go somewhere else where I am welcome.

In the context of the letter of the law and the spirit of the law they are Caesar if they deny you the Eucharist.

Caesar represents the temporal authority. Jesus was teaching that a Christian obeys the law and pays his taxes.

You are proving my point. The Church would wrongly deny you the Eucharist and you follow their bad decision.

The Church isn’t God.

Don't bother telling me the Catholic Church isn't God. It is God's voice on this Earth, with the power to bind and unbind. The Catholic Church has determined that divorced and remarried Catholics are barred from receiving the Eucharist. As a devout Catholic I must obey that decision.

They are just men.

 

[Blackrook]

As a Catholic, if I remarry, I cannot remarry in the Catholic Church, and after I remarry I will be in a state of mortal sin and ineligible to receive the Sacrament of Eucharist.

It's the "you know" clause that gets you. If you didn't know about what Jesus taught in Matthew that God hates divorce and what happens, and then became Catholic, re-married in your new church, then it would be fine. Nobody is going to kick you out because of it. You not knowing makes it okay. Ignorance of the law is not breaking the law. Thus, this issue becomes a Catch-22. If murderers can be forgiven, then divorce and re-marriage should be forgiven. In other words, what becomes important is that you understand what marriage under your religion is. One should understand what Jesus meant in God hates divorce. If one asks for forgiveness and God grants it, then they should be free to marry again. That said, not all churches will look at it the way I explained. You did the right thing in looking for a church that will marry you.

The divorce is not the sin, it is the re-marriage that is the sin because then you are committing adultery every time you have relations with your wife and you are committing scandal when you live with her.

If I get married I will be in a state of mortal sin, and unless I repent, I will go to hell. That's the Catholic teaching.

If I go to the Episcopalians I get out of all that like getting a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" in a game of Monopoly.

My struggle will be to convince myself that the whole thing isn't a sham.

 

[Blackrook]

I am "rendering" to the Catholic Church.

I will not stay in the Church and break their rules.

It is more honorable to leave and go somewhere else where I am welcome.

In the context of the letter of the law and the spirit of the law they are Caesar if they deny you the Eucharist.

Caesar represents the temporal authority. Jesus was teaching that a Christian obeys the law and pays his taxes.

You are proving my point. The Church would wrongly deny you the Eucharist and you follow their bad decision.

The Church isn’t God.

Don't bother telling me the Catholic Church isn't God. It is God's voice on this Earth, with the power to bind and unbind. The Catholic Church has determined that divorced and remarried Catholics are barred from receiving the Eucharist. As a devout Catholic I must obey that decision.

They are just men.

They are men who were ordained by the Catholic Church with Apostolic succession, which means each of them can trace the path of ordination back 2000 years to one of the Apostles.

 

[Blackrook]

I know it's a sham but there's also other reasons to join the Episcopalians, the most important being I will make new friends to replace the friends I lost when I moved to Las Vegas from Orange County.

 

[Blackrook]

Well, I just looked at the Episcopalian Church home page and it's obvious they've been overrun with the leftist agenda, including the LGBTQ agenda. I'm not sure I'd feel at home surrounded by leftists.

 

[james bond]

The divorce is not the sin, it is the re-marriage that is the sin because then you are committing adultery every time you have relations with your wife and you are committing scandal when you live with her.

If I get married I will be in a state of mortal sin, and unless I repent, I will go to hell. That's the Catholic teaching.

If I go to the Episcopalians I get out of all that like getting a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" in a game of Monopoly.

My struggle will be to convince myself that the whole thing isn't a sham.

I would not think what Jesus taught in Matthew is a sham. Yes, the re-marriage is the sin. All I was saying was if you didn't know it was a sin, then ignorance is an excuse. You would've been baptized, married in your Catholic church, and everything would've been fine until they discussed Matthew.

If your Catholic church is strict, then I can see how they may not marry you, but if you prayed for forgiveness and knew what caused your divorce and vowed to not let it happen again, then they may let you marry again in their church. I'm not familiar with your church, but that's why there are people there who can answer your questions. It sounds like you did that and they would not allow the re-marriage. I'm not sure what the differences are between your new church and old. Usually, Catholic is the most strict, but say you talked with the Pope or Bishop for your district and he said it was okay, then I doubt they would forbid it. You don't want to stay in church and ask for forgiveness after marital relations. That doesn't make any sense. I would just find a new church in your neighborhood that would marry you and that seems to be what you are doing. If you prayed and God forgave you and allowed you to marry again, then tell them that.

 

[Blackrook]

I suppose the misunderstanding non-Catholics have is they don't understand the nature of what the Catholic Church is.

It's very much a "take-it-or-leave-it" religion. There is no negotiating with a priest to allow you to take the Eucharist when you're divorced and remarried. An individual priest might agree to look the other way, but you would know he's doing it without approval from the bishop and the Pope.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

As a Catholic, if I remarry, I cannot remarry in the Catholic Church, and after I remarry I will be in a state of mortal sin and ineligible to receive the Sacrament of Eucharist.

It's the "you know" clause that gets you. If you didn't know about what Jesus taught in Matthew that God hates divorce and what happens, and then became Catholic, re-married in your new church, then it would be fine. Nobody is going to kick you out because of it. You not knowing makes it okay. Ignorance of the law is not breaking the law. Thus, this issue becomes a Catch-22. If murderers can be forgiven, then divorce and re-marriage should be forgiven. In other words, what becomes important is that you understand what marriage under your religion is. One should understand what Jesus meant in God hates divorce. If one asks for forgiveness and God grants it, then they should be free to marry again. That said, not all churches will look at it the way I explained. You did the right thing in looking for a church that will marry you.

The divorce is not the sin, it is the re-marriage that is the sin because then you are committing adultery every time you have relations with your wife and you are committing scandal when you live with her.

If I get married I will be in a state of mortal sin, and unless I repent, I will go to hell. That's the Catholic teaching.

If I go to the Episcopalians I get out of all that like getting a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" in a game of Monopoly.

My struggle will be to convince myself that the whole thing isn't a sham.

Why is an ORGANIZATION so important to you and not what you High Priest has to say?

This is something I really dont understand about most churchgoers.

The ONLY thing you should be concerned with 8s WHAT DOES JESUS TEACH?

 

[Blackrook]

Is there a conservative church that isn't evangelical?

Maybe I could look into the Orthodox. They're even more traditional than the Catholic Church, but they're divided up by nationality so which would I choose? I'm not Greek, Serbian, Russian, Ukranian or any of those nationalities. If there was an Irish Orthodox Church, that would be nice.

 

[ding]

In the context of the letter of the law and the spirit of the law they are Caesar if they deny you the Eucharist.

Caesar represents the temporal authority. Jesus was teaching that a Christian obeys the law and pays his taxes.

You are proving my point. The Church would wrongly deny you the Eucharist and you follow their bad decision.

The Church isn’t God.

Don't bother telling me the Catholic Church isn't God. It is God's voice on this Earth, with the power to bind and unbind. The Catholic Church has determined that divorced and remarried Catholics are barred from receiving the Eucharist. As a devout Catholic I must obey that decision.

They are just men.

They are men who were ordained by the Catholic Church with Apostolic succession, which means each of them can trace the path of ordination back 2000 years to one of the Apostles.

I know it's a sham but there's also other reasons to join the Episcopalians, the most important being I will make new friends to replace the friends I lost when I moved to Las Vegas from Orange County.

I didn’t say it was a sham. I said they were wrong.

 

[Blackrook]

As a Catholic, if I remarry, I cannot remarry in the Catholic Church, and after I remarry I will be in a state of mortal sin and ineligible to receive the Sacrament of Eucharist.

It's the "you know" clause that gets you. If you didn't know about what Jesus taught in Matthew that God hates divorce and what happens, and then became Catholic, re-married in your new church, then it would be fine. Nobody is going to kick you out because of it. You not knowing makes it okay. Ignorance of the law is not breaking the law. Thus, this issue becomes a Catch-22. If murderers can be forgiven, then divorce and re-marriage should be forgiven. In other words, what becomes important is that you understand what marriage under your religion is. One should understand what Jesus meant in God hates divorce. If one asks for forgiveness and God grants it, then they should be free to marry again. That said, not all churches will look at it the way I explained. You did the right thing in looking for a church that will marry you.

The divorce is not the sin, it is the re-marriage that is the sin because then you are committing adultery every time you have relations with your wife and you are committing scandal when you live with her.

If I get married I will be in a state of mortal sin, and unless I repent, I will go to hell. That's the Catholic teaching.

If I go to the Episcopalians I get out of all that like getting a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" in a game of Monopoly.

My struggle will be to convince myself that the whole thing isn't a sham.

Why is an ORGANIZATION so important to you and not what you High Priest has to say?

This is something I really dont understand about most churchgoers.

The ONLY thing you should be concerned with 8s WHAT DOES JESUS TEACH?

Please read the thread.

Jesus taught that divorce is wrong, and if you divorce and remarry that's the same as committing adultery.

This is not a problem with a church, it is a problem with Jesus' teaching.

 

[Blackrook]

There's the so-called "Catholic" Churches that broke away after Vatican I and Vatican II. But I've looked at their literature and it's mostly attacks on the Pope and it kind of turns me off.

 

[Blackrook]

No on the Old Catholics. I opened up their home page and got slapped real hard by their video about how you can be a priest even though you're a woman or gay. I mean, that appears to be their TOP PRIORITY.

 

[Blackrook]

I think the gays have taken over every Church to the left of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Blackrook]

The Presbyterians are mushy soft on abortion, which means they're for it.

Next.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

The one consolation, I guess, is knowing that the Episcopalian Eucharist is only symbolic, so I won't be breaking St. Paul's teaching if I accept it.

You wouldn’t be. They are wrong to deny the Eucharist to anyone who seeks to devour God.

The Catholic Church denies the Eucharist to anyone who isn't a Catholic in a state of grace. Most people can't receive it.

I don't mean to jump in the middle and so I apologize if I make this awkward, but have you considered simply just having a personal relationship with God without the formalities, creeds, rituals, barriers, or intermediaries? If He is in your heart and you love and follow His teachings then the structures and interpretations of others who are not God should have no influence on you in my personal opinion. Ultimately it's your choice and what's in your heart will guide you, but I was mainly just curious if you've considered following Jesus in a more direct and personal way?

 

[Blackrook]

The one consolation, I guess, is knowing that the Episcopalian Eucharist is only symbolic, so I won't be breaking St. Paul's teaching if I accept it.

You wouldn’t be. They are wrong to deny the Eucharist to anyone who seeks to devour God.

The Catholic Church denies the Eucharist to anyone who isn't a Catholic in a state of grace. Most people can't receive it.

I don't mean to jump in the middle and so I apologize if I make this awkward, but have you considered simply just having a personal relationship with God without the formalities, creeds, rituals, barriers, or intermediaries? If He is in your heart and you love and follow His teachings then the structures and interpretations of others who are not God should have no influence on you in my personal opinion. Ultimately it's your choice and what's in your heart will guide you, but I was mainly just curious if you've considered following Jesus in a more direct and personal way?

I've gone many months without attending Mass but while that is happening I forget to pray and I rarely think about God at all. The "personal way to God" isn't for me. I lack the necessary discipline.

 

[Blackrook]

Here's the thing.

The mainline Protestants have been overrun by the left and look like extensions of the Democrat Party.

The evangelicals have been overrun by the right and look like extensions of the Republican Party.

Only the Catholic Church, as far as I can tell, remains outside the orbit of either political party.

And it would be hard for me to hear at church that if I don't vote the way they want me to, I'm a bad Christian.

 

[Polishprince]

I am a divorced man and am starting a new relationship with a woman who meets all my criteria of what I'm looking for.

So, I want to be free to marry if the relationship goes in that direction.

As a Catholic, if I remarry, I cannot remarry in the Catholic Church, and after I remarry I will be in a state of mortal sin and ineligible to receive the Sacrament of Eucharist.

Today, I went into an Episcopalian diocesan office and picked up some literature. Then I called the rector of an Episcopalian parish church.

The reason I would go over to the Episcopalians is that it is the branch of Protestantism which kept most of the Catholic rituals and most resembles the Catholic Church in its teachings.

The rector and I agreed that I will attend the 10:00 a.m. Mass this Sunday, and afterward attend the coffee social to meet with him and others.

He was very welcoming and when I explained why I'm thinking of leaving the Catholic Church he was very understanding.

I told the rector that my father would be very upset by my decision, and he said, don't worry about converting just attend the Mass and see where that goes. In other words, I don't have to go from A to Z, only from A to B.

I'm looking forward to Mass this Sunday and a chance to meet the rector and maybe even make new Episcopalian friends. It is hard to make friends in the Catholic Church because most people just attend Mass and then rush to their cars to leave.

Radical Episcopalianism is certainly where you want to be if you are thinking about becoming a homosexual, as they are openly cool with Sodomy and Gay Marriage too.

 

[gtopa1]

I am a divorced man and am starting a new relationship with a woman who meets all my criteria of what I'm looking for.

So, I want to be free to marry if the relationship goes in that direction.

As a Catholic, if I remarry, I cannot remarry in the Catholic Church, and after I remarry I will be in a state of mortal sin and ineligible to receive the Sacrament of Eucharist.

Today, I went into an Episcopalian diocesan office and picked up some literature. Then I called the rector of an Episcopalian parish church.

The reason I would go over to the Episcopalians is that it is the branch of Protestantism which kept most of the Catholic rituals and most resembles the Catholic Church in its teachings.

The rector and I agreed that I will attend the 10:00 a.m. Mass this Sunday, and afterward attend the coffee social to meet with him and others.

He was very welcoming and when I explained why I'm thinking of leaving the Catholic Church he was very understanding.

I told the rector that my father would be very upset by my decision, and he said, don't worry about converting just attend the Mass and see where that goes. In other words, I don't have to go from A to Z, only from A to B.

I'm looking forward to Mass this Sunday and a chance to meet the rector and maybe even make new Episcopalian friends. It is hard to make friends in the Catholic Church because most people just attend Mass and then rush to their cars to leave.

lol. #metoo, but I'm too much a Catholic to leave and don't contemplate it. I do, however, wonder sometimes at the rules of annulment. It should be hard to get one but not damn impossible. The problem is the Consecration. No one does it like the Micks except the Orthodox. Dad was one so I have that avenue.

Greg