I'm sorry.

[ding]

The thing is that since I know that I dream when I sleep I have good reason to believe that other people dream too. So I have good reason to count on or rely upon others dreaming. So while I don’t know what they dream I can logically deduce that they dream. In other words, I have good reason to trust or have faith that they do dream.

Now as to what they specifically dream, I would need to know them to place my trust that they were being honest about what they dreamt.

So again, I would need to have a good reason to trust or count on or rely upon that they were being honest before I would put my faith in them that they were telling me the truth.

Reason is inherent to faith because we can’t trust someone or something without good reason.

What you are describing is blind faith. Blind faith is putting trust in someone or something without good reason.

I personally don’t believe God expects us to blindly trust in him because he has and is giving us constant feedback to trust him. It’s just that many can’t or won’t see it.

Well ding for some reason
I have FAITH that when BULLDOG doesn't see or say things the same way
that means to use OTHER means of expressing the same meaning or message.

I have no reason to "judge" BULLDOG who is trying to be as understanding as can be.

Going back, let's look at this comparison
* when we TRUST people to tell the truth about what they dreamed
* when we DON'T TRUST people's judgment when they talk about what they believe

How much of this is our own projection?
Why is it BULLDOG's fault if you don't have trust in good faith?

If we are going to say it isn't the fault of people with religious belief and faith
"if other people don't believe they are telling the truth"
why would we judge someone like BULLDOG who is also
trying to express perspectives? If that's what they see and understand,
why isn't that valid as part of their process. Why this mutual mistrust
and why should such people be blamed or judged if "other observers"
don't trust them to be telling the truth?

Doesn't it take mutual effort to overcome that mistrust,
instead of judging each other for why or what we do or don't believe.

Why do you believe I am judging Bulldog? Is it because I don’t believe he has given the question of the origin of existence serious consideration? That’s not a judgement of him. I’m sure he believes he has given it serious consideration. I don’t believe he has. That’s called a disagreement.

It has nothing to do with trust, M. It has to do with reason. He can’t state the perception of god he used for his serious consideration of the material world being created by spirit and he can’t list any of the available evidence he claims he used.

As I said before, I don't perceive god, because there is nothing there for me to perceive with any of my senses. that includes intuition that some believe is also a type of sense. Wishing, hoping, or imagining for something is not perceiving that thing. I suppose you might perceive that you have beliefs, but that is only recognizing that your belief exists. It is not actually perceiving the subject of your belief. Your insistence on misusing the word perception makes any further discussion meaningless.

If your perception of God is a fairytale then everything you see will be skewed to that result.

If your perception of God is more like a mind, then it won’t.

But putting all that aside you made a claim about considering all available evidence and you can’t even list what that was.

So I am curious what you considered. Especially since I suspect it is limited to your belief that God is a fairytale.

Again, you are misusing that word. Exactly how am I supposed to perceive something I can't sense in any way?

It means your perception of God.

You say you seriously considered the existence of God, right?

What did that consideration look like exactly? A white bearded old man? A magical fairy? Gandalf?

 

[ding]

per·ceive
/pərˈsēv/

verb

1. 1.
   become aware or conscious of (something); come to realize or understand.
   "his mouth fell open as he perceived the truth"
   synonyms: discern, recognize, become cognizant of, become aware of, become conscious of, get/come to know, tell, distinguish, grasp, understand, take in, make out, find, identify, hit on, comprehend, apprehend, figure out, deduce, conclude, see, discover, learn, appreciate, realize, ascertain, sense, divine, intuit; More
2. 2.
   interpret or look on (someone or something) in a particular way; regard as.
   "if Guy does not perceive himself as disabled, nobody else should"
   synonyms: look on, view, regard, consider, think of, judge, deem, appraise, assess, adjudge, figure (out), size up, value, rate, suppose, think, sum up, weigh up
   "he was perceived as too negative"

 

[emilynghiem]

The thing is that since I know that I dream when I sleep I have good reason to believe that other people dream too. So I have good reason to count on or rely upon others dreaming. So while I don’t know what they dream I can logically deduce that they dream. In other words, I have good reason to trust or have faith that they do dream.

Now as to what they specifically dream, I would need to know them to place my trust that they were being honest about what they dreamt.

So again, I would need to have a good reason to trust or count on or rely upon that they were being honest before I would put my faith in them that they were telling me the truth.

Reason is inherent to faith because we can’t trust someone or something without good reason.

What you are describing is blind faith. Blind faith is putting trust in someone or something without good reason.

I personally don’t believe God expects us to blindly trust in him because he has and is giving us constant feedback to trust him. It’s just that many can’t or won’t see it.

Well ding for some reason
I have FAITH that when BULLDOG doesn't see or say things the same way
that means to use OTHER means of expressing the same meaning or message.

I have no reason to "judge" BULLDOG who is trying to be as understanding as can be.

Going back, let's look at this comparison
* when we TRUST people to tell the truth about what they dreamed
* when we DON'T TRUST people's judgment when they talk about what they believe

How much of this is our own projection?
Why is it BULLDOG's fault if you don't have trust in good faith?

If we are going to say it isn't the fault of people with religious belief and faith
"if other people don't believe they are telling the truth"
why would we judge someone like BULLDOG who is also
trying to express perspectives? If that's what they see and understand,
why isn't that valid as part of their process. Why this mutual mistrust
and why should such people be blamed or judged if "other observers"
don't trust them to be telling the truth?

Doesn't it take mutual effort to overcome that mistrust,
instead of judging each other for why or what we do or don't believe.

Why do you believe I am judging Bulldog? Is it because I don’t believe he has given the question of the origin of existence serious consideration? That’s not a judgement of him. I’m sure he believes he has given it serious consideration. I don’t believe he has. That’s called a disagreement.

It has nothing to do with trust, M. It has to do with reason. He can’t state the perception of god he used for his serious consideration of the material world being created by spirit and he can’t list any of the available evidence he claims he used.

As I said before, I don't perceive god, because there is nothing there for me to perceive with any of my senses. that includes intuition that some believe is also a type of sense. Wishing, hoping, or imagining for something is not perceiving that thing. I suppose you might perceive that you have beliefs, but that is only recognizing that your belief exists. It is not actually perceiving the subject of your belief. Your insistence on misusing the word perception makes any further discussion meaningless.

If your perception of God is a fairytale then everything you see will be skewed to that result.

If your perception of God is more like a mind, then it won’t.

But putting all that aside you made a claim about considering all available evidence and you can’t even list what that was.

So I am curious what you considered. Especially since I suspect it is limited to your belief that God is a fairytale.

Again, you are misusing that word. Exactly how am I supposed to perceive something I can't sense in any way?

Dear BULLDOG
What do you use when you perceive the difference between true and false?
What about the difference when someone sincerely loves/cares and when someone doesn't?
What about the difference when things are fair/just and when they are biased or oppressive?

Whatever you call that component or mechanism in the human CONSCIENCE
that's the connection that people call connecting with God through Christ.

That Connection by Conscience interacts with other people.
That central connection is what we use to determine if we are establishing
REAL truth and justice and are at PEACE with each other,
or if something is OFF, amiss, missing the mark and NOT truly equal or correct yet.

That "trigger" goes off in our conscience when we sense something
inconsistent, unfair, conflicting or just plain wrong.
When we sense a solution, an angle that might clarify where people
are getting conflicted, our "conscience" guides and gravitates toward corrections.

Whatever you call that, that is what people use when they
talk about connecting with God through Jesus. It's the Justice
factor or mechanism that is naturally in the human conscience.
It affects our decisions, our judgment, our free will to choose
one action or approach over another. That's what people are
trying to reconcile with each other; and when we agree in
relationships we build toward equal justice for all others from there.

 

[Magnificat]

The thing is that since I know that I dream when I sleep I have good reason to believe that other people dream too. So I have good reason to count on or rely upon others dreaming. So while I don’t know what they dream I can logically deduce that they dream. In other words, I have good reason to trust or have faith that they do dream.

Now as to what they specifically dream, I would need to know them to place my trust that they were being honest about what they dreamt.

So again, I would need to have a good reason to trust or count on or rely upon that they were being honest before I would put my faith in them that they were telling me the truth.

Reason is inherent to faith because we can’t trust someone or something without good reason.

What you are describing is blind faith. Blind faith is putting trust in someone or something without good reason.

I personally don’t believe God expects us to blindly trust in him because he has and is giving us constant feedback to trust him. It’s just that many can’t or won’t see it.

Well ding for some reason
I have FAITH that when BULLDOG doesn't see or say things the same way
that means to use OTHER means of expressing the same meaning or message.

I have no reason to "judge" BULLDOG who is trying to be as understanding as can be.

Going back, let's look at this comparison
* when we TRUST people to tell the truth about what they dreamed
* when we DON'T TRUST people's judgment when they talk about what they believe

How much of this is our own projection?
Why is it BULLDOG's fault if you don't have trust in good faith?

If we are going to say it isn't the fault of people with religious belief and faith
"if other people don't believe they are telling the truth"
why would we judge someone like BULLDOG who is also
trying to express perspectives? If that's what they see and understand,
why isn't that valid as part of their process. Why this mutual mistrust
and why should such people be blamed or judged if "other observers"
don't trust them to be telling the truth?

Doesn't it take mutual effort to overcome that mistrust,
instead of judging each other for why or what we do or don't believe.

Why do you believe I am judging Bulldog? Is it because I don’t believe he has given the question of the origin of existence serious consideration? That’s not a judgement of him. I’m sure he believes he has given it serious consideration. I don’t believe he has. That’s called a disagreement.

It has nothing to do with trust, M. It has to do with reason. He can’t state the perception of god he used for his serious consideration of the material world being created by spirit and he can’t list any of the available evidence he claims he used.

As I said before, I don't perceive god, because there is nothing there for me to perceive with any of my senses. that includes intuition that some believe is also a type of sense. Wishing, hoping, or imagining for something is not perceiving that thing. I suppose you might perceive that you have beliefs, but that is only recognizing that your belief exists. It is not actually perceiving the subject of your belief. Your insistence on misusing the word perception makes any further discussion meaningless.

OK. That does it. I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Let's see if you have the capacity for being honest with yourself. I challenge you to prove that God does not exist. Not to me or anyone else. But to yourself. There is plenty of evidence out there. Look at it. From eyewitness accounts of the life, death and resurrection of Christ, to the historical accounts of the Old Testament, and biblical prophecy. Anyone who looks objectively at the evidence can come to only one conclusion. The Bible tells us that only a fool can say there is no God. Don't be a fool.

I never said there is no chance that God exists. I never said unicorns don't exist either. I suppose almost anything is possible. I just said I have seen no reason to believe they do. You can throw down what ever you want to throw down. I have no need or desire to disprove your beliefs. I just think they are wrong, and pretty dumb. You can present any evidence you might have of a god if you want to, but I've probably already seen it. If you want to use the Bible as proof, you need to first prove that it is inerrant. Good luck with that one.

A perfect example of wilful ignorance and a reprobate mind.