I’m melting! Yeah sure.

[Mr. P]

The warming is bogus BS..
The sad fact is, if we listen to these so called “environmentalists”, THEY will destroy the environment, not us. Don’t believe it, just look at the wild fires in the west, and ask why?

Polar Ice Cap Studies Refute Catastrophic Global Warming Theories
by James M. Taylor (December 16, 2001)
A series of recent studies shows that the polar ice caps, which should be shrinking if dire global warming theories are correct, are maintaining their mass and in fact growing slightly. The studies suggest satellite temperature readings, which indicate no global warming of the lower atmosphere, are more reliable than surface temperature readings, taken by humans under varying conditions, that had indicated a slow, gradual warming.
A study published in the December 3, 1999 issue of Science magazine, authored by Ola Johannessen, Elena Shalena, and Martin Miles, reported Arctic sea ice had declined by 14 percent from 1978 through 1998. In a related story, columnist Richard Kerr pondered "Will the Arctic Ocean lose all its ice?" The mainstream press ran with the story, giving dire warnings that global warming was upon us.

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1281

 

[archangel]

natural Earth cycle brought on by volcanic action or forrest fires of a natural origin or a meteor strike...not to be confused with fossil fuel emissions!
So I would agree with your assessment Mr.P...although living at the 6200' level some warming would be nice...Sigh...it has been pretty nice up here Tahoe is getting all the snow so far...we got about 6" but it melted away...hoo rah! temp 34-41 degrees today!

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The warming is bogus BS..
The sad fact is, if we listen to these so called “environmentalists”, THEY will destroy the environment, not us.

You're right. Toxic substances like benzene and vinyl chloride are GOOD for the environment and we should emit as much of them as possible. Don't listen to these damn environmentalists!


The reason forest fires are such a big problem is because all of the large, slow burning, hard to ignite, old growth trees have been replaced with a bunch of super flammable toothpicks.

 

[Mr. P]

....Don't listen to these damn environmentalists!


The reason forest fires are such a big problem is because all of the large, slow burning, hard to ignite, old growth trees have been replaced with a bunch of super flammable toothpicks.

LOL...you DON'T have a clue kid.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

LOL...you DON'T have a clue kid.

Well that's what a forester I met in Flagstaff, AZ, told me. He must not have a clue about forestry, though. The suggestion that a high density forest with toothpick trees will burn quicker than a low density forest with large old growth trees is just absurd, I suppose, and quite irrational and illogical.

 

[Mr. P]

Well that's what a forester I met in Flagstaff, AZ, told me. He must not have a clue about forestry, though. The suggestion that a high density forest with toothpick trees will burn quicker than a low density forest with large old growth trees is just absurd, I suppose, and quite irrational and illogical.

Your statement was...

The reason forest fires are such a big problem is because all of the large, slow burning, hard to ignite, old growth trees have been replaced with a bunch of super flammable toothpicks.

This is simply untrue. If managed properly new growth is not a problem.
But what would I know, I only worked for one of the largest timber companies in the country for 10 years.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Your statement was...

This is simply untrue. If managed properly new growth is not a problem.
But what would I know, I only worked for one of the largest timber companies in the country for 10 years.

The reason human management of the forests is needed is because the forests are all densely planted toothpick trees.

Are you actually claiming that larger trees ignite quicker than smaller ones ? Is that your claim?

Or you are basing an argument off of a claim I didn't even make? I never said that forests couldnt' be properly managed! I only said that smaller trees ignite quicker than bigger ones, smarty pants. Doesn't take a 10 year vet of the timber industry to figure than one out.

 

[Mr. P]

The reason human management of the forests is needed is because the forests are all densely planted toothpick trees.
..... I only said that smaller trees ignite quicker than bigger ones, smarty pants. ....

No you said….

The reason forest fires are such a big problem is because all of the large, slow burning, hard to ignite, old growth trees have been replaced with a bunch of super flammable toothpicks.

That is very misleading. Now if you had said….

One of the reasons forest fires are such a big problem is because all of the large, slow burning, hard to ignite, old growth trees have been replaced with a bunch of super flammable toothpicks.

That is a true statement, and I would have never posted.
It may seem like its nitpicking but it’s not. This is one of the environmentalist best tricks. That is to twist the truth slightly to fit their agenda. I’m not saying you intentionally did that, but the statement suggests only ONE reason when in fact there are many. Leading the way is a failed Federal Forest Management program.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

No you said….

That is very misleading. Now if you had said….

That is a true statement, and I would have never posted.
It may seem like its nitpicking but it’s not. This is one of the environmentalist best tricks. That is to twist the truth slightly to fit their agenda. I’m not saying you intentionally did that, but the statement suggests only ONE reason when in fact there are many. Leading the way is a failed Federal Forest Management program.

Yeah, I was totally trying to trick you. It seems like it is nitpicking because it is.

If you had just said, "well there are other causes for forest fires" - I wouldn't think you were nitpicking. But instead we went on a several message exchange where you attempted to use your nitpickery to show off how you know more than me.




How big of a problem are forest fires in forests that are untouched old growth?

 

[Mr. P]

....
How big of a problem are forest fires in forests that are untouched old growth?

You tell me, and don’t mislead again, define “Old Growth”, and name a forest that is “untouched”.

Again kid, failed Forest Management is the root cause of so many fires.

 

[Hobbit]

I'd also like to you tell me how the largest forest fire in recorded history took place in an unspoiled rain forest populated almost entirely by enormous "old growth."

In case you were wondering, I'm referring to the great Mexican forest fire of the late 1990s which reduced visibility to about 50 feet where I was in Arkansas. The fire itself was about the size of the state of Arkansas, too.

 

[Mariner]

trees often survive forest fires.

Mariner.

 

[Mariner]

read many times that not permitting undergrowth to burn properly raises the risk of more catastrophically damaging forest fires once enough undergrowth builds up. This would be a reason to be far more careful about building million-dollar vacation homes and sprawling suburbs in fire-prone areas throughout the West and Southwest, but that would take an actual national ecologically-sensible environmental policy--which we're unlikely to see from an administration that appoints logging industry members to environmental panels.

Mariner.

 

[Mariner]

you want to post something newer than 1999? Care to take a look at what's happened to the ice caps since then?

You can thank environmentalists such as Republican Theodore Roosevelt for the existence of the national parks, for the fact that after 96% of the California redwoods were cut down (the largest, just for fun), the last 4% were saved, for the fact that cars have catalytic converters, for the fact that loggers and miners have some tiny bit of regulation about how they do their work, so that streams don't get massively polluted and mountains don't erode, for the fact that you can the food you eat has generally safe levels of dozens of pesticides that are toxic to humans, for the fact that you can swim in waterways throughout the country that were once sewers or caught fire spontaneously, for the continued existence of hundreds of endangered species of animals that, once gone, can never be recreated, etc. etc. etc. How exactly do environmentalists destroy the environment??

Mariner.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You tell me, and don’t mislead again, define “Old Growth”, and name a forest that is “untouched”.

Again kid, failed Forest Management is the root cause of so many fires.

One that has not been logged in a period of time comparable to the lifespan of the trees in the area.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I'd also like to you tell me how the largest forest fire in recorded history took place in an unspoiled rain forest populated almost entirely by enormous "old growth."

In case you were wondering, I'm referring to the great Mexican forest fire of the late 1990s which reduced visibility to about 50 feet where I was in Arkansas. The fire itself was about the size of the state of Arkansas, too.

THe Mexicans aren't good at fighting forest fires in that area, I suppose.

Go ahead. Take a toothpick. See how hard it is to light it with a match.

Now take a log 6 inches in diameter and try to light it.


Rules have exceptions - I thought that point would be an obvious one.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

How exactly do environmentalists destroy the environment??
Mariner.

They don't. At least not anymore than you or me.

Its just a ploy by the right.

And of course they always cite the most extreme examples - like the ones who destroy people's property in the name of the environment, which is something 99% of environmentalists would disagree with. Or the ones like PETA who go around wrecking people's PhD's theses to free a bunch of rats.

It would be as if I proposed that all right wingers were just like Pat Robertson.

 

[Mr. P]

you want to post something newer than 1999? Care to take a look at what's happened to the ice caps since then?

.....

Mariner.

Is 2000 recent enough for you, how about 2001?
What has happened is in the link.