I'm for gutting the whole government system

[bigrebnc1775]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Another reason why I say the political system needs to be gutted. Obamush's “kinetic military action” in libya and Congress has done nothing to stop it.

Congress Caved

Despite the attempt of a handful of senators to get the president to comply with the War Powers Act and to account for his action the rest of the senate collapsed like a house of cards. The week Sens. John Kerry and John McCain introduced a resolution allowing the use if limited force to remove Moammar Gadhafi from power. This action is pretty much a move to grant the White House a “get out of jail card” for his disregard of the law. Sen. McCain is leading the effort for bipartisan to help Obama break the law. There is no other way to describe what is happening.

We are way past the 60 days of authorized “kinetic military action” against Libya.

CNN is reporting that Senator McCain apparently thinks “the War Powers Act is constitutional and therefore he doesn’t believe the president needs congressional authorization to continue the mission.” McCain went on to say “I’ve never recognized the constitutionality of the War Powers Act, nor has any president, either Republican or Democrat,” Last I checked they complied with it, and deciding the constitutionality of a law is not up to a Senator.
President Ignores War Powers Act. Congress does nothing «Coach is Right

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In a nutshell governments are:
(you could say therefore reasons to keep as small as possible)

Inefficient
Extremely wasteful
no matter the style, at least moderately corrupt
egotistical
as a collective - extremely poor at decision making on every level
disregard for public funds
always pushing things from one extreme to the other, rarely finding a middle ground on anything.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Poli_Sigh]

And then drawing and quartering it.

 

[dblack]

The first step to healing is to quit hurting ourselves - i.e. STOP voting for Democrats and Republicans. That strategy is a proven failure.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The first step to healing is to quit hurting ourselves - i.e. STOP voting for Democrats and Republicans. That strategy is a proven failure.

I repeat voting no longer works. It hasn't worked for 150 years.

 

[dblack]

I repeat voting no longer works. It hasn't worked for 150 years.

I'm inclined to agree with you, or at least hear you out. But doesn't it seem that it's the WAY we're voting that is the problem?

 

[Wiseacre]

" We have met the enemy and it is us. " - Pogo, comic strip character

The real problem to me is the public is not educating themselves on the issues of the day and communicating with their elected officials enough about it. And the media is biased, we don't get the whole unvarnished truth about anything. Look at the discourse, or what passes for discourse around here, alll we do is regurgitate talking points at one another and vilify and demagogue the other side. Not a lot of meaningful dialogue, why should we expect more of the pols in DC?

I think it's going to take a significant cultural shock for people to wake up and realize some things must be changed, starting with attitudes. IMHO, we do need to remake gov't, by redefining it's roles and responsibilities. I'm hoping the coming election will provide an open debate on it, but I'm guessing that won't happen.

 

[jillian]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

so we should live in what type of system?

 

[peach174]

Does anybody have any name's or who's who for third party people?
What about the people that work and don't have the time to really look into what's really going on.
How about the one's who don't pay attention until maybe just the last month of an election?
How do we get the third party candidates out there for everybody to see and look at, when the media and both parties are set up for just the Repubs and Dems?

 

[jillian]

" We have met the enemy and it is us. " - Pogo, comic strip character

The real problem to me is the public is not educating themselves on the issues of the day and communicating with their elected officials enough about it. And the media is biased, we don't get the whole unvarnished truth about anything. Look at the discourse, or what passes for discourse around here, alll we do is regurgitate talking points at one another and vilify and demagogue the other side. Not a lot of meaningful dialogue, why should we expect more of the pols in DC?

I think it's going to take a significant cultural shock for people to wake up and realize some things must be changed, starting with attitudes. IMHO, we do need to remake gov't, by redefining it's roles and responsibilities. I'm hoping the coming election will provide an open debate on it, but I'm guessing that won't happen.

in other words, most people are not rightwingnut idealogues who agree with you?

yah... that's the problem... not.

 

[dblack]

Does anybody have any name's or who's who for third party people?
What about the people that work and don't have the time to really look into what's really going on.
How about the one's who don't pay attention until maybe just the last month of an election?
How do we get the third party candidates out there for everybody to see and look at, when the media and both parties are set up for just the Repubs and Dems?

Here ya go.

 

[peach174]

Pretty sorry list there.
I would not want any of them.

 

[HUGGY]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01rNP89pSyk&feature=related]YouTube - ‪The Ballad Of Davy Crockett. Fess Parker.‬‏[/ame]

 

[Wiseacre]

" We have met the enemy and it is us. " - Pogo, comic strip character

The real problem to me is the public is not educating themselves on the issues of the day and communicating with their elected officials enough about it. And the media is biased, we don't get the whole unvarnished truth about anything. Look at the discourse, or what passes for discourse around here, alll we do is regurgitate talking points at one another and vilify and demagogue the other side. Not a lot of meaningful dialogue, why should we expect more of the pols in DC?

I think it's going to take a significant cultural shock for people to wake up and realize some things must be changed, starting with attitudes. IMHO, we do need to remake gov't, by redefining it's roles and responsibilities. I'm hoping the coming election will provide an open debate on it, but I'm guessing that won't happen.

in other words, most people are not rightwingnut idealogues who agree with you?

yah... that's the problem... not.

Exhibit A. Wasn't intending to take sides, didn't say anything about what the final agreement should be about the roles and responsibilities of gov't should be. Gonna have to make up your mind, do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution. The answer will be whether or not you continue to throw stones. Talking to everybody here.

 

[editec]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-the-whole-government-system.html#post3693420

I'm for gutting the whole government system

ARe you really?

Including the military?

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

Are you really shocked that the TP members sent to Congress got in line to further enmpower the state maintain control over the people, BigREB?

I'm not.

Just like I am not surprised that Obama has ALSO signed onto that law.

Welcome to my reality, citizen.

The sooner people like you realize that the game is a fix, and the fix isn't about left or right, the better.

If we need a metsphor to describe our nation it isn't left v right, or liber b con or R v D it is:

INSIDERS versus CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

Your neighbors, however much you might disapprove of their lives personally, are NOT the people who are screwing YOU or your nation.

When things go bad the LEADERSHIP is ALWAYS responsible.

Not the people, not the hippies, or the welfare mothers or the gun owners, or the veterans, or the factory workers or the affluent or the rich, or any other of the scapegoat classes our masters keep telling us are the causes of the problems.

THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE DECISONS that lead us here are the guilty parties.

We know only SOME of their names.

They are mostly the PUPPETS, not the PUPPET MASTERS.

Follow the money, Reb.

 

[dblack]

Pretty sorry list there.
I would not want any of them.

Then write someone in. Write yourself in. The point is to stop supporting the parties that are hurting us. It's not that hard to avoid. Not voting at all is better than giving your stamp of approval to those doing us harm.

 

[dblack]

I repeat voting no longer works. It hasn't worked for 150 years.

If enough of us do it, it would work. Even if we don't succeed in nominating a third party candidate, if even thirty percent of the nation actively votes "no" to the Republocrats - things will change.

 

[jillian]

Pretty sorry list there.
I would not want any of them.

Then write someone in. Write yourself in. The point is to stop supporting the parties that are hurting us. It's not that hard to avoid. Not voting at all is better than giving your stamp of approval to those doing us harm.

i don't believe in protest votes. they only enable the people you want to lose to get into power.

and notwithstanding the essential truths in the comments of my friend, editec, there are differences, at least symbolically, that effect our lives.

that said, we knew when the patriot act was enacted, it would never be unenacted. no one gives up power willingly. i thought we learned that from the failed communist experiment in russian in which, according to marxist philosophy, the government was simply supposed to "fall away", leaving a government run by "the people".

read Animal House... nothing changes. privilege protects itself. power protects itself. wealth maintains itself... with few exceptions.

 

[dblack]

i don't believe in protest votes. they only enable the people you want to lose to get into power.

I suppose that's the difference. I want hypocritical liars to lose regardless of party or ideology. Presently, that would include all mainstream Democrats AND Republicans.

... there are differences, at least symbolically, that effect our lives.

Fine. If you believe that one of the parties is bad, and the other is good, vote for the good guys. I can respect that position, even if I believe you are wrong. But voting for the lesser of two evils still gets you 'evil'. I can't abide that.

that said, we knew when the patriot act was enacted, it would never be unenacted. no one gives up power willingly. i thought we learned that from the failed communist experiment in russian in which, according to marxist philosophy, the government was simply supposed to "fall away", leaving a government run by "the people".

Well, we're not, yet, marxists. We do have a democracy and it can serve us effectively. But it takes awareness and will.