Illusions, Yes, No and Wait

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by alan1, Dec 28, 2008.

  1. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI[/ame]
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. YWN666
    Offline

    YWN666 Freelance Beer Tester Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Thanks Received:
    447
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +458
    Elsevier

    Abstract

    Background

    Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.

    Methods

    Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.

    Results

    In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.

    Conclusions

    Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complication
    s.
     
  3. KittenKoder
    Offline

    KittenKoder Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    23,281
    Thanks Received:
    1,711
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,714
    Love the video, so true .. to a point.

    The ancient cultures had a much better explanation .... the gods either don't care or we are their 'rats' and they toy with us for fun.

    In reality: You can see a miracle in any coincidence if you want to see a miracle.
     
  4. YWN666
    Offline

    YWN666 Freelance Beer Tester Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Thanks Received:
    447
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +458

    "No miracle has ever taken place under conditions which science can accept. Experience shows, without exception, that miracles occur only in times and in countries in which miracles are believed in, and in the presence of persons who are disposed to believe them."
    Ernest Renan, 1863
     
  5. KittenKoder
    Offline

    KittenKoder Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    23,281
    Thanks Received:
    1,711
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,714
    YWN, I think you misinterpreted it, it's like saying that when you want to see something you will see it even if it's not there.
     
  6. YWN666
    Offline

    YWN666 Freelance Beer Tester Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Thanks Received:
    447
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +458
    Perhaps I did.
     
  7. KittenKoder
    Offline

    KittenKoder Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    23,281
    Thanks Received:
    1,711
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,714
    Brainwashing experiments show that if a person is told enough times that the sky is red, they will see the sky as red.
     
  8. del
    Offline

    del BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    45,052
    Thanks Received:
    9,830
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +9,885
    thanks, cliff.
     
  9. KittenKoder
    Offline

    KittenKoder Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    23,281
    Thanks Received:
    1,711
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,714
    Coming from someone who probably thinks Al Gore made the internet ... flattering actually.
     
  10. del
    Offline

    del BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    45,052
    Thanks Received:
    9,830
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +9,885
    no, i worked at bbn when the first email was sent, so i really wouldn't be flattered. good try though, cliffie.
     

Share This Page